Ronin_eX Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Probably not, the praetorian guard thing is from Index Astartes and the compilation (IA2) that contains the WD article is from 2002. The first HH book Horus Rising was published in 2006. So even if the RT-era Feast of Malediction sidebar's implications about our Chapter's relationship with the Emperor were true (and that bit is debatable) this at least seems to supersede them unless a more recent source is found. So far the best link we have is also one of the oldest pieces of background information in the game and likely warped over the past 25 years, leading to its current form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin_eX Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Another tidbit while idly reading Siege of Vraks Part 1 (wasn't even looking this time, just felt like thumbing through it). The Dark Angels are the honoured First Chapter of the First Founding, the original Space Marines, founded before the Imperium of Man had even been created. The Dark Angels Legion fought beside the Emperor during the Great Crusades... So it doesn't say he commanded us directly but considering the Lion wasn't found until 150 years after the Great Crusade started... And at least this bit is from 2007 instead of 1987. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 It always seemed to me that the Emperor created each of the Legions separately. You're trying to turn your warp-tainted project to mass production, and you've already lost the results of the first effort. Would you risk all twenty gene-seed samples at once? What about the logistics of raising twenty legions all at once? I can't recall if the First Founding was before or after the union with Mars but in either case the resources of the fledgling Imperium are limited. Thus the first legion would, for a time, have been the only legion. While I think the numbering of the primarchs was essentially random - anybody could have been I, or VI or XIII - there is some cachet to being the first of the Legiones Astartes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 It always seemed to me that the Emperor created each of the Legions separately. You're trying to turn your warp-tainted project to mass production, and you've already lost the results of the first effort. Would you risk all twenty gene-seed samples at once? What about the logistics of raising twenty legions all at once? I can't recall if the First Founding was before or after the union with Mars but in either case the resources of the fledgling Imperium are limited. Thus the first legion would, for a time, have been the only legion. While I think the numbering of the primarchs was essentially random - anybody could have been I, or VI or XIII - there is some cachet to being the first of the Legiones Astartes. Actually, that is not the case. He created each of the primarchs at the same time (and they were all scattered at the same time), and he created the legions after that. Horus was the FIRST primarch found. He got the Luna Wolves legion because they had the same gene-seed. Lion El Johnson was put with the first because of the gene-seed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 That's what I mean Telanicus. He created the primarchs all together, so none of them was really first or last, then lost them to the Warp. He started a new project based on the primarchs' gene-seed and created 20 legions in succession. The first of these was based on Lion El'Jonson's template and was named the Dark Angels. The Lion wasn't the first primarch in a chronological sense, either of creation or discovery, just 'number 1', but the Dark Angels were the first of the Legiones Astartes. It doesn't really prove any innate superiority but bragging rights are bragging rights and I'll take them where I can. :ermm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Darius Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 You also have to realize that it probably unlikely that the empower just did one whole chapter, started conquering the universe and then made each chapter in succession. Remember he had no idea what order he was going to find the primarches in. When he found his first primarches (Horus) he had the lunar wolve done and ready to turn over to him. Which number was the lunar wolves? I think he developed the chapters pretty much parallel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darwa1 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I think the only real praise that we can claim is not only being the first legion numerically, but also in design. Look in Deliverance Lost and it tells that the Emperor created them in numerical order, and started to deviate and experiment as he went. Hence why the sixth made(Space Wolves) show huge expermentation on the Emperors part. I'd still say it makes us special anyways! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 We are Vanilla :tu: We are what it means to be Space Marines then :)Not the ultras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 We are Vanilla :tu: We are what it means to be Space Marines then :)Not the ultras haha, a bit like our beta tested 4th Ed dex then :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Giant Quote of Text of Post #16 The whole of this is pretty well reasoned out, though I might take issue with the exclusion of information from Rogue Trader pointing to the idea of it not being more developed than what was mentioned in that book at the time. Rick probably had tons of notes on a bazillion things and just needed the time, and an outlet, to get them "out there". That of course happened in White Dwarf articles and the supplemental booklets for the Rogue Trader era of the game, and in many side games to some extent. 2E is where they finally got their "stuff" in order to be sure though, and that is part of why 2E is so fondly remembered by those who played it- 2E finally 40k being presented not as a series of summaries or excerpts, but in a proper way. That had a huge impact on the people who were already interested in the game, or were new to it at that time. You could very well be right about what you sited as being the a big part of the seed of the myth. Just to iterate though, the Lion was not considered to be "a Custodian of the Emperor", but "a Custodian of the Dark Angels Legion". The Lion is there to "mind the store", but the Emperor is the one who is really acknowledged to be "the man in charge" of the Legion. That is how the title "Custodian" is used in the quote, not that it is used in such a way that it means that the Lion was "Baldric" to the Emperor's "Black Adder". Even if the Lion was known for his "cunning plans". ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleqvin Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I know in Descent of Angels on page 235, Midris states they are the First Legion of the Emperor. Then on page 252 Israfael states that Horus was the first Primarch found and also that the Emperor commanded them to go to the planet (Caliban but the SM didn't know that name at the time,) in full instead of just a scout force. I am only 2/3rds the way through the book so I am not sure if there is info pertaining to us being his bodyguard in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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