Vs. Grey Knights

[Tivarox]

I have not faced a grey knights player yet, but I will be soon. What sorts of tactics do you employ against them? In particular, what do you do for HQ since Daemon Princes are very squishy against them?

[plaguereaper]

The few times I have played against GK my Daemon Princes have actually done pretty well.

If you do run DPs, I wouldn't go into combat alone, I would back him up with another unit.

[redfeild32]

kill the dreads fast don't just stun them. ( i love when people stun them and next turn i pass my fortitude test and shoot) the dreads are your main enemy 4 strength 8 twin-link shots a turn very scary. Then try to keep out of the 24 inch zone. they are an absolute power house at 24 inches 4 strength 7 AP 4 rending shots if staying still if moving 2 per psycannon. On top of that many people give them psy-bolt ammo so strength 5 storm bolters. Now they have a grenade that reduces your daemon princes int. to 1 when you charge or when they charge you. So set up your assault with daemon prince on a turn two so that way you could kill the hammer before they kill you. Now if you see the only termyies with a Storm shield shot the living heck out of his unit tell he is dead. he is will man handle any and al daemons psykers and will even man handle lsysander 1 on 1. then when you assault as his guys all have power weapons i recommend you stack the odds heavily in your favor. aka korne berserker's, and termyies just to be safe. then last but least if you see a staff shoot that unit because of the 2++ in cc.

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

Yes, use DPs still. The only roles your demon princes should have vs. GKs are these:

 

-Charging units of 5 PAGKs

-Killing TLAutocannon Dreads ASAP

-Simply existing so that the above dreads are shooting princes instead of your transports! :(

 

That's not to say that they're not good at other things, but those 3 are most important. Plague Marines handle everything else just fine.

 

As far as tactics go:

 

-If you take LR's or Vindicators, it's important that you give them Demonic Possession. It's likely that psycannon/assault cannon rends WILL pen them, so it's imperative that they stay in the game be it by tankshocking, contesting areas that you don't want to claim or simply shooting.

-Warptime on sorcerers/princes is a waste of points. You need bodies instead, if you are tailoring a list.

-

[Azekai]

Ugh, Grey Knights. Good advice so far, though you will be at a disadvantage.

Is it cowardly that I tend to avoid GK players? I find the fact that their codex is designed to kill most of the useful units in our codex a bit of an irritant.

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

and most of them tend to over-extend their army past its limits and after they overkill something we have (aka bait their beautiful new minis into a trap), they usually get slaughtered after their arrogant consolidation move.

[Araziel]

I've fought against Grey Knights twice in a 2,300pt list.

My opponent had;

 

Kaldor Draigo

 

Paladin Knight squad (5) - banner, psybolt, flamer, halberds all around.

Terminator squad (6) - banner, psybolt, psycannon, halberds all around.

 

Nemesis Dreadknight - greatsword, flamer, psycannon.

 

 

My opponent hammered me the first time, as I didn't know a thing about the new Codex. The second time, I managed to win by isolating his limited numbers and baiting him around.

Use your Prince(s) to lure his Knights where you want them. GKs get preferred enemy here, so its no clue as to what they're going to run at. I used a combo of a winged DP and a Defiler to achieve this. The battle cannon on the latter turned out to be useful, as it scored a direct hit on the unit of deep striking Paladin's straight away, pulling a wound of all of them, though leaving Draigo unharmed.

 

Its worth noting that if you're fighting this kind of list, you'll probably have a much harder time of it if you're opponent has brought some Stormravens with him.

 

I actually pulled off a great deal of luck and managed to kill the Dreadknight in CC with my DP... my opponent rolled a LOT of ones, even with his re-rolls. My opponent then made the mistake of removing Draigo from the Paladin's and counter-charging the DP. He powned him, obviously.

Guess how I killed him?

 

I tank-shocked him with a Rhino. My opponent forgot for a moment that they weren't using a SM army with melta bombs and such, and did a Death or Glory. Failed to do anything to the A11 frontal armour, and then he got squished.

That's right - a 275pt model got killed outright with a 35pt Rhino.

 

After that happened, my opponent pretty much lost his nerve. I managed to start bringing my Plague Marine's melta-guns to bear, and pulled off a win.

 

The GKs are a truly terrifying army to fight on their terms, but if you can deny them the advantage (IE, stay the hell out of that combat) then they're suddenly a bunch of over-priced SMs.

 

I mean, even if you're facing psybolted ammo, the GK player will still need 3s to hit you, 4s to wound due to our increased toughness value, and then you get you're 3+ armour save, AND 4+ FNP.

 

My best advice would be to keep cool, stay out of range for as long as possible, and force them to fight on you're terms, not theirs.

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

Shouldn't the battlecannon have removed all 5 paladins if they all took a wound? O.O

 

Not being an "actuallyyyyyyyyyyyyy" person, just asking in case you got screwed.

[Tivarox]

Thanks for all the advice

 

As much as I would like to avoid fighting them, They will belong to my brother, so fighting them is inevitable.

 

I currently have 2 DPs, A defiler, 3 Obliterators, 28 Plague Marines (meltas everywhere), 16 Khorne Berserserkers, 2 rhinos, and 15 lesser daemons that I converted from Black Reach Orks (they are now zombified). I have time to acquire more things that I may need to beat him before He finishes his army.

 

He has a dreadknight (is planning on getting a second, and maybe 3rd) Draigo, and 2 squads of Terminators/paladins. He plans to also acquire some regular grey knights.

 

I am obviously not bringing my lesser daemons. I'm thinking 2 squads of plague marines with meltas moving alongside each DP, and then trying to use Lash of Submission to break up his force so I can focus fire onto one unit a time (starting with his dreads of course), and then Bringing my Defiler to try and lay down some templates for support, and possible fleet charging for some Str. 10 hits.

[Araziel]

Shouldn't the battlecannon have removed all 5 paladins if they all took a wound? O.O

 

Not being an "actuallyyyyyyyyyyyyy" person, just asking in case you got screwed.

 

Huh. You know, you're right. Bugger!

I guess that's the price you pay for not being a rules Nazi, and having too much fun making models as opposed to playing with them :down:

 

If I face him again, I'll be sure to point that one out..

 

Thanks for all the advice

 

As much as I would like to avoid fighting them, They will belong to my brother, so fighting them is inevitable.

 

I currently have 2 DPs, A defiler, 3 Obliterators, 28 Plague Marines (meltas everywhere), 16 Khorne Berserserkers, 2 rhinos, and 15 lesser daemons that I converted from Black Reach Orks (they are now zombified). I have time to acquire more things that I may need to beat him before He finishes his army.

 

He has a dreadknight (is planning on getting a second, and maybe 3rd) Draigo, and 2 squads of Terminators/paladins. He plans to also acquire some regular grey knights.

 

I am obviously not bringing my lesser daemons. I'm thinking 2 squads of plague marines with meltas moving alongside each DP, and then trying to use Lash of Submission to break up his force so I can focus fire onto one unit a time (starting with his dreads of course), and then Bringing my Defiler to try and lay down some templates for support, and possible fleet charging for some Str. 10 hits.

 

Sounds like as good a plan as any. Just be wary of any Librarians he may or may not include. Their Psychic Hoods will have a good chance of getting rid of any powers you have in play, like Lash.

If that is the case, then don't rely on it to win the game.

 

Of course, you could just shoot any Librarian(s) he's running in the head with a Battle Cannon. That'd solve the problem...

Let us know how the battle goes :(

[Something Wycked]

Just be wary of any Librarians he may or may not include. Their Psychic Hoods will have a good chance of getting rid of any powers you have in play, like Lash.

If that is the case, then don't rely on it to win the game.

Or if Dreadnoughts come along and improve the penalty to rolls made to activate Psychic Powers to 4 (The Aegis + Reinforced Aegis); making your opponent roll Ld6 to activate Lash is just as good as a Hood.

 

In that case, use your Oblits to pop the Dreadnought ^_^

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

I know it seems like you won't be using Ahriman, but a great trick is to bait him with a Prince and when he consolidates, pop his character(s) with Gift of Chaos.

 

Similarly, you could just give it to a single or both princes and as one gets charged, the other pops the enemy with the spell.

[Hellios]

The battle cannon on the latter turned out to be useful, as it scored a direct hit on the unit of deep striking Paladin's straight away, pulling a wound of all of them, though leaving Draigo unharmed.

 

That was pretty lucky that he failed all of his saves XD

[nurglez]

I have some experience playing with grey knights, but I run a Draigo wing force, and reckon I would kill my plague marine army quite easily...

 

Strike squads are just expensive marines, they die at range just like other marines. Paladins are tougher, with 2 wounds each and terminator armour, the majority of weapons that can threaten them will only get 1 shot before being dealt with (demolisher cannon, melta guns etc). Draigo helps absorb an instant death hit on the squad he is in, and is hard as nails.

 

Daemon princes can do ok on the charge. Psykout grenades only work when they charge, not when they are charged.

[Chengar Qordath]

The battle cannon on the latter turned out to be useful, as it scored a direct hit on the unit of deep striking Paladin's straight away, pulling a wound of all of them, though leaving Draigo unharmed.

 

That was pretty lucky that he failed all of his saves XD

I've rolled straight ones for Terminator armor saves before. When that happened my opponent and I spent the next couple minutes laughing like mad at the hilarity of it all.

 

With GKs, the usual key is to control the flow of battle. Most GK units are versatile enough to be good at shooting and cc, so if you're not careful they can be really good at the classic "shoot the choppy, chop the shooty."

 

As a general rule, with a Nurgle-list you're better off focusing on shooting; FnP won't do any good against all the force weapons in a GK list, but GKs die just like normal (and much cheaper) marines to plasma, melta, etc. A lot of your tactics will depend on what type of list you're up against; Draigowing works very differently from Purifier/GKSS Razorspam MSU.

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

I've rolled straight ones for Terminator armor saves before. When that happened my opponent and I spent the next couple minutes laughing like mad at the hilarity of it all.

 

Oh, we're supposed to laugh? I was under the impression that crushing fail dice into powder with a sledgehammer and giving them to a friend who loads .50 pistol ammunition was the preferred reaction.

 

Not that I have ever attempted such a feat, of course. Clearly I am too sweet for that.

[Chengar Qordath]

I've rolled straight ones for Terminator armor saves before. When that happened my opponent and I spent the next couple minutes laughing like mad at the hilarity of it all.

 

Oh, we're supposed to laugh? I was under the impression that crushing fail dice into powder with a sledgehammer and giving them to a friend who loads .50 pistol ammunition was the preferred reaction.

 

Not that I have ever attempted such a feat, of course. Clearly I am too sweet for that.

There are many valid reactions.

[Kol Saresk]

I've rolled straight ones for Terminator armor saves before. When that happened my opponent and I spent the next couple minutes laughing like mad at the hilarity of it all.

 

Oh, we're supposed to laugh? I was under the impression that crushing fail dice into powder with a sledgehammer and giving them to a friend who loads .50 pistol ammunition was the preferred reaction.

 

Not that I have ever attempted such a feat, of course. Clearly I am too sweet for that.

Hehehe! That's actually pretty funny!