Scouts and Locator beacon

[MadMek83]

Hello everyone!

 

I was reading my codex about scouts and thinking a Sniper Scouts might be good and chep addition to blood angels, though not very blood angelic, however I did look scout bikes 3 models for 70 points and move fast. I was considering putting 3 or 4 man scout bike squadron on and give sargeant and a locator beakon for 25P. My goal is to use scout bikes deliver locator beacon on spot I want so I can drop pod Later my Furiosos or something as nasty like 10 man DC foot slogging assault squad into hearts of enemy.

 

Is taking scout bikes viable just for this purpouse? You can move fast, take cluster mines and mine some terrain and pop beacon on its place... 125P for fourman unit, 105P for threeman bike squad...

 

Or should I just take Scout Snipers give their sarge a beacon and put it on table a bit later? Scout snipers might be more useful than 3-4 scout bikes after getting a beacon in place...

 

Four scouts bikes with locator beacon and cluster mines: 125P vs 5 scout with sniper rifles and a missile launcher with camo cloaks and locator beacon: 125P. Its tough choice, of course scout bikes can actually keep up with jump pack units, unlike their foot slogging counterparts but still... I mainly use jump pack forces atm but I am building also mechanized forces.

[Morticon]

snipers will inevitably be positioned further back. Bikers may be a more fun option and with mines, can be quite cool.

[matchbox]

bikes, land raider redeemer in reserve. nuff said XD

[Demoulius]

also renember that bikers are T4(5) meaning they get wounded less easily ;)

 

bikes fit the BA dex better tbh, if for no other reason that they can keep up with the rest of the army :P

[Emperors Immortals]

also renember that bikers are T4(5) meaning they get wounded less easily :D

 

bikes fit the BA dex better tbh, if for no other reason that they can keep up with the rest of the army ;)

 

 

 

True.

 

 

I have a whole strat based around tac.termies w/ priest teleporting down near turbo boosting scout bikes.You can get an entire table half locked down with a supporting tac marine squad for a reaally low cost - and a multi melta w/ cyclone nearby can deal with pretty much anything.

[sp4rky]

One issue with Scout Bikers is that they compete in the same slots as Baal Preds, Attack Bikes and Vanguard Vets. Fair enough, if you don't use 3 elite slots then it's not a problem.

 

I usually stuff a beacon on a drop pod because the pod comes down on turn 1 and so many people just ignore them. Added to that is if you drop it down near terrain then it's chances of scattering wildly are minimal thanks to the inertial guidance or whatever it's called.

 

When you actually play you get the choice to keep the unit in the Pod and have them appear in the enemy's lines or just deploy the Pod empty and have your unit stroll on. Something I do is take a Libby Furioso with Wings and a Pod so it's not an issue to drop the Pod empty as the Libby is fast enough to keep up and can work the Shield if needed.

[shortysl]

Do Blood Angels have the Drop Pod Assault rule? If so, why not simply use an empty Drop Pod with a Locator Beacon and when it drops in on the first turn you have yourself a rather lovely, relatively cheap locator beacon with which to scare the bejeesus out of your opponents?

[Morollan]

Do Blood Angels have the Drop Pod Assault rule? If so, why not simply use an empty Drop Pod with a Locator Beacon and when it drops in on the first turn you have yourself a rather lovely, relatively cheap locator beacon with which to scare the bejeesus out of your opponents?

 

Assuming the opponent doesn't just blow it to bits, although I suppose that's one less weapon firing at the rest of your army.

[mysteriousmaskedmystery]

i would probably use infiltrated scouts myself, either with snipers or maybe just bolters or CCW, but the scout bikes with their turbo boost save will probably be the most survivable in the end.

[Cyto]

An empty Drop Pod is essentially a free kill point for your enemy.

[MadMek83]

my vanguard vets are reserved more pure DoA list, running two Baals is something I definately going to try... So getting 3x scout bikes now and later 4th might be something fun. After doing so much jump squads bikes would be something new. Thanks for advices!

[I am Legion]

I agree, go with scout bikers. They work better with the rest of the army. Imagine your 2 baal preds scouting up along with the scout bikers with beacon, and come your first turn you can move up that storm raven with dread, and suddenly you have a bunch of stuff in your opponents face. the last thing they'll shoot at is the bikers, and if you're lucky enough you can have the redeemer come down on target along with some termies or RAS....needless to say that's for bigger point games.

[shortysl]

An empty Drop Pod is essentially a free kill point for your enemy.

 

Actually, it's not; it's a dedicated transport and so doesn't relinquish a kill point. Besides, if your opponent wants to waste some firepower destroying an AV12 Drop Pod that isn't doing anything, let him waste his firepower. The fact that you don't HAVE to state that it's got a locator beacon as long as it's on your army list also means said opponent is unlikely to realise the significance of the Drop Pod until it's too late.

[SnorriSnorrison]

An empty Drop Pod is essentially a free kill point for your enemy.

 

Actually, it's not; it's a dedicated transport and so doesn't relinquish a kill point. Besides, if your opponent wants to waste some firepower destroying an AV12 Drop Pod that isn't doing anything, let him waste his firepower. The fact that you don't HAVE to state that it's got a locator beacon as long as it's on your army list also means said opponent is unlikely to realise the significance of the Drop Pod until it's too late.

 

 

Dedicated Transports are worth a kill point each. Not informing your opponent about the actual load-out of a unit/vehicle might be seen as bad sportsmanship.

 

 

Snorri

[shortysl]

An empty Drop Pod is essentially a free kill point for your enemy.

 

Actually, it's not; it's a dedicated transport and so doesn't relinquish a kill point. Besides, if your opponent wants to waste some firepower destroying an AV12 Drop Pod that isn't doing anything, let him waste his firepower. The fact that you don't HAVE to state that it's got a locator beacon as long as it's on your army list also means said opponent is unlikely to realise the significance of the Drop Pod until it's too late.

 

 

Dedicated Transports are worth a kill point each.

 

Source? Although i don't have a rulebook to hand, i'm pretty darn certain that dedicated transports don't. Rhinos don't, Razorbacks don't, Drop Pods don't.

As for bad sportsmanship, i disagree. The information is on your army list and is therefore legitimate. Not making an army list or refusing to show your opponent if they call you on it is bad sportsmanship, but revealing every tiny detail of your army composition before the game is, in my humble opinion, a little silly.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Source?

 

Should be pg. 91, scenario Annihilation. Every unit of your opponent that is destroyed is worth a kill point. Since Rhinos, Razorbacks and Drop Pods are units, they give you a kill point at the end of the game if you manage to destroy them.

 

At the end of the game, each player receives

1 ‘kill point’ for each enemy unit that has been

completely destroyed.

 

Found an english quote!

 

As for bad sportsmanship, i disagree. The information is on your army list and is therefore legitimate. Not making an army list or refusing to show your opponent if they call you on it is bad sportsmanship, but revealing every tiny detail of your army composition before the game is, in my humble opinion, a little silly.

 

When I deploy, I tell my opponent what every unit is equipped with, especially when it comes to such things that are not displayed on the model, Locator Beacons, extra armour etc because I normally don't read over my opponent's list. I expect him to do the same and I've been doing fine with that. :blink:

 

 

Snorri

[JamesI]

\Source? Although i don't have a rulebook to hand, i'm pretty darn certain that dedicated transports don't. Rhinos don't, Razorbacks don't, Drop Pods don't.

As for bad sportsmanship, i disagree. The information is on your army list and is therefore legitimate. Not making an army list or refusing to show your opponent if they call you on it is bad sportsmanship, but revealing every tiny detail of your army composition before the game is, in my humble opinion, a little silly.

 

All units give a kill point. Kill points are the only balancing factor to the power of cheap transports.

 

And I agree with Snorri, its bad sportsmanship to try to hide what units have.

[Demoulius]

also agree on the sportmanship. but if you have explained at the start of the game what everything has and simply dont mention that your drop pod WITH LOCATOR BEACON is landing but simply your drop pod i dont think your covering up anything :blush:

 

dedicated transports are bought with a unit but 'otherwise are treated like individual units' so they would give up a kill point i think...

 

unless weve been doing kill points missions wrongly the last few years :blink:

[shortysl]

Apologies to Snorri Snorrisson, you were completely right about dedicated transports. I could've sworn that i read somewhere that this isn't so but, as every source i've checked gives evidence to your side of the argument, i must conclude that it's simply my old man brain playing tricks on me :)

 

Regards to the comments about sportsmanship: I obviously play a different kind of game. To me, 40k is a tactical wargame; it's the job of the generals to adapt to circumstances they didn't previously know about, after all, a real life commander does not know in advance what is opponent is going to throw at him. I have no problem with the idea of showing your army list before a game, it's just that my friends and I don't do it. We prefer it that way.

 

James I, never did i advocate trying to hide anything from an opponent; there's a difference between trying to hide something and simply not revealing something. As i said in a previous post, i DO consider it bad sportsmanship to try and hide information from an opponent, but if they don't ask, i won't tell.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Apologies to Snorri Snorrisson, you were completely right about dedicated transports. I could've sworn that i read somewhere that this isn't so but, as every source i've checked gives evidence to your side of the argument, i must conclude that it's simply my old man brain playing tricks on me :)

 

No hard feelings, man. We've all been there at one or another occasion. In Germany, it's even worse because the sloppy translation of the BRB causes a lot of confusion or even makes for completely different worded paragraphs that change the sense and function of a rule. It can be frustrating. :D

 

Regards to the comments about sportsmanship: I obviously play a different kind of game. To me, 40k is a tactical wargame; it's the job of the generals to adapt to circumstances they didn't previously know about, after all, a real life commander does not know in advance what is opponent is going to throw at him. I have no problem with the idea of showing your army list before a game, it's just that my friends and I don't do it. We prefer it that way.

 

Well, if that's the way you play with your friends and such, it's cool. It's just that I would not rely on this when playing someone I don't know in a LGS for example. ;)

 

 

Snorri

[JamesI]

Regards to the comments about sportsmanship: I obviously play a different kind of game. To me, 40k is a tactical wargame; it's the job of the generals to adapt to circumstances they didn't previously know about, after all, a real life commander does not know in advance what is opponent is going to throw at him. I have no problem with the idea of showing your army list before a game, it's just that my friends and I don't do it. We prefer it that way.

 

James I, never did i advocate trying to hide anything from an opponent; there's a difference between trying to hide something and simply not revealing something. As i said in a previous post, i DO consider it bad sportsmanship to try and hide information from an opponent, but if they don't ask, i won't tell.

Then I misunderstood you. Apologies.

 

I have no problem with the idea of not telling things that aren't asked, players preferring to keep things a surprise. But I've played enough games where people clearly try to change what units have what during a game (the meltagun was a proxied flamer two turns ago and now its a meltagun again and the like) that I prefer full disclosure.

[shortysl]

Regards to the comments about sportsmanship: I obviously play a different kind of game. To me, 40k is a tactical wargame; it's the job of the generals to adapt to circumstances they didn't previously know about, after all, a real life commander does not know in advance what is opponent is going to throw at him. I have no problem with the idea of showing your army list before a game, it's just that my friends and I don't do it. We prefer it that way.

 

James I, never did i advocate trying to hide anything from an opponent; there's a difference between trying to hide something and simply not revealing something. As i said in a previous post, i DO consider it bad sportsmanship to try and hide information from an opponent, but if they don't ask, i won't tell.

Then I misunderstood you. Apologies.

 

I have no problem with the idea of not telling things that aren't asked, players preferring to keep things a surprise. But I've played enough games where people clearly try to change what units have what during a game (the meltagun was a proxied flamer two turns ago and now its a meltagun again and the like) that I prefer full disclosure.

 

Fair play, i've been on the wrong end of such players too. I appreciate the apology, but it's not necessary; to me, these kinds of discussions are part and parcel of being a community.

[Rybnick]

I've had an army idea in my head for a while that's basically Astorath, 3 sanguinary priests (upgrades if points allow) and 6x10 scouts for troops (all with PF and MB Srg) and 3x5 Scout bikers with PF, MB and 3x grenade launchers.

 

Proabably a completely idea but the prospect of 75 scouts on the field all with a 50% of the resd thirst and a fair amount with FnP sounds fun. Anti-tank would be a challenge but hey that's still a ton of bodies to throw at someone.

[MadMek83]

I've had an army idea in my head for a while that's basically Astorath, 3 sanguinary priests (upgrades if points allow) and 6x10 scouts for troops (all with PF and MB Srg) and 3x5 Scout bikers with PF, MB and 3x grenade launchers.

 

Proabably a completely idea but the prospect of 75 scouts on the field all with a 50% of the resd thirst and a fair amount with FnP sounds fun. Anti-tank would be a challenge but hey that's still a ton of bodies to throw at someone.

 

That sounds fun too. Alot camocloaks and then drop pod a nut-brothers and dreadnought you get tactics I might easily go. I do not have single scout yet but as soon my money situation allows, I will order 3 scout bikes and scouts with sniper rifles...

 

 

I agree, go with scout bikers. They work better with the rest of the army. Imagine your 2 baal preds scouting up along with the scout bikers with beacon, and come your first turn you can move up that storm raven with dread, and suddenly you have a bunch of stuff in your opponents face. the last thing they'll shoot at is the bikers, and if you're lucky enough you can have the redeemer come down on target along with some termies or RAS....needless to say that's for bigger point games.

 

 

I am toying an idea involving scout bikes, locator beacon. Two baal preds moving up close & personal and when your opponent is busy with my preds I'll drop pod 9 nutrbothers and chaplain with DC dread later filling the carnage... It may not work but dang its fun to play with DC as your hammer and rest units as anvil...Albeit my termy unit is already asking where's their Landraider Crusader which was promised for them long time ago...