Deathwing vs. The rest of the world

[riddles]

It is. at 1000 points the balance of the game is very different to 1500 upwards, just because your mandatory troops take up much less of a percentage of your army and you can fit in more support.

[EPK]

Thanks Riddles for your insight. Like I said, it's been awhile and I was too lazy to look up the extensive thread(s) I know we had on here that touched on similar topics.

 

To make up those 10 points, you could also get away with dropping two chainfists. Since the idea is to try to always support one squad with another (or more), we know which squad can best deal with transport and other can charge the troops inside. Though that is in ideal situations of course, not counting on the variables of the battlefield.

 

I can agree wih you on the LR brick comment. Thinking back, 3 out 4 times I brought one, it did not get to deliver its payload... The one time it did, it came out of reserve and was immediately in range. I'd say if you do want to bring just one, reserving it is a good idea.

 

At the very least, it needs to have a centrally located deployment - I deployed first my last game and was to the right, my opponent placed his own LR all the way on the other side I the table. I would have gladly sent Belial and company against it if I could have and pounded the traitor Lucius and his DLC wielding terminators back to the warp.

[krewl]

Or you could use a godhammer as mobile cover, works wonders for denying your enemy shots at the termies so they live a lot longer, then late game you can hop a full squad in and rush somewhere after yiou removed most melta threats, or mount a depleted unit (You tend to have 1 or 2 guys left of a squad a lot of times) and have a solid scoring bunker.

 

Still some days that raider will face drop pod sterns with combimelta's or a dark eldar lnce army.. :D

Just one is something you can miss and still have a propper game though, unlike 3 raider lists where there's not enough left for you to build the rest of your army.

[Haranin]

I'm pretty much forced to take two land raiders right now. I really don't want to buy more termie boxes until the DA codex rumors become a reality, and new box sets, if any, are established. I'm at the stage where I probably need another 10 termies, and bunch more CML... but why buy if new models are approaching?

 

One problem with GW's approach to announcing releases... sure you might get the oh shiny model buy each month; but people with older codexs/ army books. upon hearing a net rumor, might not buy anything for a year or more.

[riddles]

Just one is something you can miss and still have a propper game though, unlike 3 raider lists where there's not enough left for you to build the rest of your army.

 

with respect, I disagree. in a Greenwing army, sure, because tactical squads are cheap enough (kinda) to provide multiple scoring units, and because you can load up on typhoons and preds to provide cheap fire support. The minute you have deathwing troops, that goes out the window because you're already paying a premium for them.

 

go big or go home, i say. incidently, 1 godhammer provides cover to 2 crusaders nicely

[Vanek]

hmmm.......my first ever tournament with DW was 1000 points. I ran 3 squads of DW with 2 typhoons (no apothecary, no banner). It did pretty well. I took 2nd out of 30.

 

In my playtesting, I ran with 2 squads and tried a mix of support (3 typhoons and 1 ac/hb pred, 2 typhoons and 2 ac/las pred). The firepower at that points level was impressive, but i struggled in objective games. Not necessarily capture and control (2 objectives), because I could contest last turn, but multiple objectives were a real problem. They only thing you can do is playtest and get comfortable.

 

With the meta at my LGS, I think the extreme firepower option would prove the most useful. My regular opponent is a guard player who loves demolisher and battle cannons. He regularly runs as much armor as he can fit into his list, which proves to be pretty tough against most armies. Also, I thought that in the smaller games with not as many AP1-AP2 weapons, that the apothecary would prove invaluable to his squad with FNP, especially when footslogging across the board facing the myriad of small arms fire. I could see how he's a waste of points, since that is almost half the cost of a Typhoon, but since you're taking an already small number of Termies, wouldn't it be advantageous to bring someone that will at least hold out for a few more turns?

[riddles]

I absolutely recommend the apothecary, I just didn't use him because I wanted the typhoons. 3 squads, apothecary and 1 pred fits into 1000 i think and can work.

 

The answer to mech guard is deathwing assault on a flank, run move to spread out, pray to the god emperor and trust in your storm shields, then assault his tank line. works like a charm.

[Vanek]

Playing around with AB, I came up with this:

 

Belial

2 squads (1 all th/ss w/cml and apoth, other with th/ss, cf, cml mix)

3 typhoons

1 ac/las pred

 

1000 points

 

I think it'd fair well, just like you said in objective missions, i'd have to just kill everything and deny my opponent a scoring unit.

 

Also, would assault cannons be useful at this points level? I could see the massed shots causing a problem with the chance to pen some armor on rending.

[riddles]

more expensive than cyclones (and points are at a premium), and force your deathwing to be within 24inches. Sometimes you want to play the range game. assault cannons stop you doing that.

 

lots of gunnage in that list, me likely.

[Vanek]

What's the best way to deal with dreadknights? I've seen them do some pretty nasty things, but I've never had to fight one.

[riddles]

close combat with THSS terminators.

 

a squad with 2 THSS and the rest powerfist will see off a dreadknight quite handily with 1 or 2 casualties.

 

if you've got spare lascannons and multimeltas to shoot it with, great. otherwise don't bother.

[VAGABOND]

I took a full footslogging army to Throne Of Skulls last year and managed to finish in the top 5 beating the likes of Grey Knights & Dark Eldar. I'm not here to brag at all but just showing that an older Codex can still push the top tier armies to the limit. I lost 1 game all weekend and that was a Wagon List on Kill Points as I couldn't roll higher than 3 to glance the side armour. I recently took up Draigowing for my Custodes and that does very well and still manages to kick the crap out of people in my area.

[EPK]

I took a full footslogging army to Throne Of Skulls last year and managed to finish in the top 5 beating the likes of Grey Knights & Dark Eldar. I'm not here to brag at all but just showing that an older Codex can still push the top tier armies to the limit. I lost 1 game all weekend and that was a Wagon List on Kill Points as I couldn't roll higher than 3 to glance the side armour. I recently took up Draigowing for my Custodes and that does very well and still manages to kick the crap out of people in my area.

 

Brag away. We are happy to have the DW out there representing.

 

Do you mind sharing said footslogging army?

[VAGABOND]

There are plenty of pics on here of my army just search this sub forum. Vagabond Deathwing I think the topic was?

[krewl]

insert hammer into problem, problem goes away..

 

Just a note, we do NOT want to charge head on into paladins, (or GK termies for that matter) as their halbards or swords will hit us for a bunch and whipe a unit before hammers get to swing (Do the math you'll see ^_^ )

If you face a 10 men pallie unit, you need at least 2 (Prefereable 3) units of DW charging in at the same time so that several hammers get to swing.

 

This may seem like a huge investment but pointswise it's pretty equal as a full pimped paladin unit (MC's, brotherhood banner, psycannons) is around 700 points and 3 DW squads should be about the same.

 

Note, I know the math is rough and rounding up and down a bit.

Then the funny thing happens,one squads charges and takes 21 attacks, (Usually buffed by hammerhand) 11,5 hits, 7 2/3rd wounds (And again asuming you have 2 TH&SS like I do) you lose about 3,5 models (So one or 2 termies left standing, who swing back 6 attacks, 3 hits, 2,5 wounds, say 2 return dead (He does the same to you with the 2 leftover hammers at the same I) and your termies are dead having killed 2 in a pretty good set of rolls, and it's easy to be just slightly on the bad side of that and lose all your guys, not getting to swing at all. To underline, this is the good scenario where YOU charge, if they charge you are dead before hammers swing.

 

Charge with 2 units and you lose less models as you can place more saves on 3++ shields, while you return more deaths aswell. If you are charging 2 units is already a battle you should win, but very much subject to dice rolls messing up your day.. 3 makes it exponentially beter. Again, more hits from your side, and more 3++ saves to allocate his powerweapon hits on. He still does that same ammount of about 1 unit in kills, but in return you should whipe him on his turn.

 

When beeing charged it's a different story, if it looks like it will go that way, set up at least 2 units behind the sacrificial lamb unit up front and wave goodbye. then do that countercharge, and you should be good.

 

I can not stress enough however that GK techmarines, some inquisitpors and GKGrand masters have access top grenades that make you T3, or make you wierd stuff on a table like hit just once, or hit your own guys.

I still haven't figured out how the heck we as deathwing should deal with those buffed units, I'm open for tips. :-)

 

We don't have the ammount of tanks we need to reliable tank shock them till they run away, and we also tend to have few meltaguns or other Ap2 weapons to take enough of them down to actually kill suchs a huge deathstar.

And any good player will walk them up near the center of the board where they threaten suchs a big area they can keep you off objectives and/or contest your own. So ignoring the deathstar and killing the rest is a hard one, because we are not fast enough to get through them. just throwing in our missiles is also far from effecient, we need 10 ML shots for 1 dead pallie. (7-ish hits, 6-ih wounds, one failed save..)

[VAGABOND]

15 Thundernators should be able to enough to kill a 10 man Paladin squad, I should know I use both. :D

[EPK]

There are plenty of pics on here of my army just search this sub forum. Vagabond Deathwing I think the topic was?

 

What I really meant was, "army list"... but yea, I see them (and remember seeing them when you posted them).

 

Looks like your have 6 DW squads, all 5xTH/SS + CML along with Belial with a TH/SS and what is that second HQ you have there?

[VAGABOND]

Librarian with Combi-Melta :)

[march10k]

But land raiders are better in 2s or 3s. single raider + command squad of doom is a brick that will get stopped in its tracks.

 

+1.

 

I run two lists...one is three mounted squads plus support, the other is five squads with no land raiders plus support. Taking just one is like, well, throwing just five termies at the enemy...it's no more than a target. Make him deal with three of them, and give him no infantry to shoot at until he does, or don't take them at all. Even taking two is marginal. I'd love the option for four (perhaps in the next codex, as a HQ DT? That would allow five, although that'd be a bit much...even in ard boyz, it'd be hard to squeeze in 1250 points of tanks!

[krewl]

15 Thundernators should be able to enough to kill a 10 man Paladin squad, I should know I use both. :D

Thats what I said.

 

It's when psychotropes and rad grenades and blind grenades come into the picture that things start to suck...

[EPK]

one is three mounted squads plus support

 

Three! Now that's got to be a sight. Two would be a lot for me... I've never run more than one, but I agree it seems to be a waste more times than not.

 

I assume that's a 2000 pt or more list?

 

What are you looking at?

 

3x DW sqauds

3x LR (couple crusaders and a godhammer?)

3x LS Typhoons?

[riddles]

3 squads, belial, apothecary, banner, 2 extra armour raiders is 1700. so i'd guess yes.

 

Sweet spot is 1850 because then you get a chaplain.

[march10k]

3 squads, belial, apothecary, banner, 2 extra armour raiders is 1700. so i'd guess yes.

 

Sweet spot is 1850 because then you get a chaplain.

 

At 1850, I run two crusaders, a mars, three squads (two with HF, one with CML), bels of course, and 250 points worth of support, consisting of two typhoons and five outflanking pistol and sword scouts. For 80 points, the scouts give me the threat of 16 WS4 S4 attacks anywhere within 12" of a board edge, and they have krak grenades, to boot, often wonderfully concentrating the enemy in the center of the board for me, which beats the hell out of chasing them down with my few units!

 

I'd love to have a chappy, but that would leave about 100 points, an awkward number to fill.

 

at 1750, I do often take the chappy instead of the support, and just plop down three land raiders and say "how do you like me now?"

[Vanek]

After playing a few games this past week, I had mixed success against guard and grey knights. 1 win and 1 loss vs. GK, and a draw with mech guard. My question is, what's the "sweet" spot for deepstriking your squads? I lost a squad to mishap vs. Guard, and that's the only reason the game ended in a draw.

[EPK]

What was your list and how many did you hold in reserve? What was the mishap result?

 

You don't want to plop one squad down by it's lonesome. Get two in 1st turn with DWA to support each other. That means you need 3-4 squads (which I assume you probably had). It's always nice to have an odd amount of squads so half, rounded up, can come in.