march10k Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Yep, when I DWA, it's always exactly two squads on turn one, with one left in reserve, and that one may or may not deepstrike, depending on my reading of the board at that decision point...at least half the time, the remaining squad walks on to claim a near objective with zero chance of a mishap, allowing me to completely abandon my own deployment zone at the outset, getting EVERYTHING in the enemy's face early, confident that the homefront will be reclaimed in turn 3 or 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 That seems like a good tactic March10k, to choose to simply walk them on rather than deep strike, but is there no rule that says you must declare if your reserves will be deep striking or not from the onset of the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGumbo Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Yep, when I DWA, it's always exactly two squads on turn one, with one left in reserve, and that one may or may not deepstrike, depending on my reading of the board at that decision point I didn't think you could do this. Don't the DS rules state that you have to decide at the time you place squads in reserve whether they will deep strike or not? I'm pretty sure the same goes for outflanking. I suppose there's a natural get out with DW (and teleporting units generally) in that you can always argue that they teleported just behind your deployment zone and then walked on but it does seem a little against the spirit to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Yep, when I DWA, it's always exactly two squads on turn one, with one left in reserve, and that one may or may not deepstrike, depending on my reading of the board at that decision point I didn't think you could do this. Don't the DS rules state that you have to decide at the time you place squads in reserve whether they will deep strike or not? I'm pretty sure the same goes for outflanking. I suppose there's a natural get out with DW (and teleporting units generally) in that you can always argue that they teleported just behind your deployment zone and then walked on but it does seem a little against the spirit to me. Yes, page 94. You must declare that you are going to use the "deep strike" rule during deployment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanek Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 What was your list and how many did you hold in reserve? What was the mishap result? You don't want to plop one squad down by it's lonesome. Get two in 1st turn with DWA to support each other. That means you need 3-4 squads (which I assume you probably had). It's always nice to have an odd amount of squads so half, rounded up, can come in. My list was: Belial Command squad w/apoth & banner, all th/ss and cml DWx3, 2 th/ss, cf, and cml 3x land speeder typhoons with multi-meltas ac/las pred My opponent was mech guard, and we had spearhead deployment. He took about 3 battlecannon leman russ, a blast multi-melta tank, and 4 chimeras (the troop transports), and spread them out throughout his deployment, with his sentinels on his left flank. I deployed my three land speeders, predator, and non reserved DW squad on my side of the board. I plopped Belial and friends down between 7-8 inches away from his tank, and they hit dead on. The other DWA squad i put about 4 inches towards the center of the board, and they deviated in between two tanks. I rolled a two, and they were lost. Belial and friends were eating tanks alive (well, spiritually), but had a tad bit of trouble with the 9 meltagun shots that his vets had each round. Besides that, I deepstruck my other reserved unit on an objective out of LoS of his tanks, and cleared his infantry off another objective. Since Belial was extremely over extended, I took my squad that was on the board to start and walked them towards his side to help Belial, which in hindsight, I should have kept them on the objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I'm certainly no vet, but I'd say you did what you could - it was, like you said, just that unfortunate mishap. Me thinks that command sqaud + that squad that is now lost in the warp would have done the trick supporting each other. If you are worried about that, you could always play higher point games and fit in a 5th DW squad - then you have 3 coming in. I also agree with your hindsight decision - did that unit even make it to help? Sometimes you just have to let Belial and company die. At the point where they had lost their supporting DW squad to the warp, I probably would have just let them pump out as much damage as they could until the last stand, keeping a rock solid group of Terminators on an objective - would your opponent even had reached them in time to contest? Personally, I'm too much of a wimp to DWA without RW to guide them in. That's a lot of points to have simply vanish into the warp, but many people do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanek Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I also agree with your hindsight decision - did that unit even make it to help? Sometimes you just have to let Belial and company die. At the point where they had lost their supporting DW squad to the warp, I probably would have just let them pump out as much damage as they could until the last stand, keeping a rock solid group of Terminators on an objective - would your opponent even had reached them in time to contest? Well, the other squad did make it to help. Thanks to his placement of sentinels, I moved them, charged the sentinels, then consolidated all in one turn. Next turn, I was able to charge a squad of infantry with them, and chewed through them pretty handily. Belial's squad took out one tank, immobilized another, destroyed the weapon on a chimera, and then got shot to pieces. Belial lived, moved to the objective, and charged the infantry squad holding that objective, locking them in cc and contesting the objective. The guard player focused on my speeders and pred first, unlike the grey knight player I played, and that was the deciding factor (after my squad was lost to the warp). And yes, I'd like to get to 2k points to have that 5th squad. I have a LRC sitting on the sprue, and enough termies in boxes still to make it to 2k. Personally, I'm too much of a wimp to DWA without RW to guide them in. That's a lot of points to have simply vanish into the warp, but many people do it. I have a box of bikes that I need to put together to play around with. I want to use two squads to kind of throw my opponent off. One bike making a scout move makes it pretty apparent where my squads are going to land. Two bikes should spice it up a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Gotcha. Well then it wasn't totally for nothing... I like Belial surviving and tying up the objective squad. Sounds like a fun game - you were definitely on the offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 For the love of the Emperor, people, at what point did I say that I wasn't deciding how to deploy them until the moment of their arrival????!? Of course the decision point is "when placing them in reserves," which means when I have the rest of my army on the table and decline to deploy them. At that point I have more information than I had when I wrote the list, to wit: 1. I can see the terrain 2. I have seen my opponent's list 3. I have certainly seen how the rest of my army is deployed 4. Half the time, I'll have seen my opponent's disposition, as well 5. I know the mission Taking all that into consideration, I decide at the appropriate time whether to DS them or walk them. /edit/ Seriously, what is wrong with you people? Within 25 minutes of posting, I have three of you falling all over yourselves to see who can denounce me for a cheater soonest and loudest??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanek Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 That I was EPK. If you just sit back and shoot the entire game, it's boring. You gotta get up close and personal, especially with the Imperium's greatest warriors ;) I also have just about everyone at my LGS convinced that Belial is a beast in CC. I'll just try to keep the ruse up as long as possible. Do any of you guys use dreadnoughts? I'm thinking of including one or two with some bikes to kinda liven things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 March10k, please calm down, I'm sure that the intention wasn't to denounce you as a cheater, but to correct you in case you were not doing things right. Tou can see by what was written that no one attacked or used the word cheater or even suggested. It as just a misunderstanding and a friendly nudge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droma Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Calm down March no one called you a cheater and to be fair your wording wasn't clear either way. Clarifying how a rule works does not mean people are calling you a cheater. You've explained yourself so just chill out it a bit. We're all brothers here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 March, my apologies. As you can see neither of us even outrightly said you couldn't do it, we simply asked, and certainly no one called you a cheater. All was very nonconfrontational from the start. In fact, I even said it was a good tactic. It was merely two of us who were confused by what you wrote, sorry if it looked like we were attacking you. Instead of waiting for you to explain, I went to the rule book when BigGumbo had the same question. The rulebook reference was really more in response to his question. I sit on a computer 8 hours a day for work giving me plenty of time to browse B&C and respond rather quickly. I also have a version of the rulebook here with me, no joke (I didn't go digging it out). I also have just about everyone at my LGS convinced that Belial is a beast in CC. I'll just try to keep the ruse up as long as possible. Hehe - well he certainly put on a decent show in your last game at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGumbo Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Seriously, what is wrong with you people? Within 25 minutes of posting, I have three of you falling all over yourselves to see who can denounce me for a cheater soonest and loudest??? Sorry old bean, I certainly wasn't denouncing you, just seeking clarification. What you wrote was ambiguous, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Seriously, what is wrong with you people? I have a horrible rash and unimaginably bad body odour. I also have a seriously flipant personality disorder :P . Dude, don't be a cheater :ph34r: . To be honest, I have once or twice forgotten to declare what my DW reserves are doing and end up walking them on as a result. That's our agreed default option for my failing mind around here. I realise you meant differently but there you go :P stobz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riddles Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 this is all starting to sound like warseer ;) I tend to deepstrike 2 squads together. Alternatively, on the (rare) occasion where I deep strike 1, it's the whole kit and cabbodle (belial, apothecary, banner). Even then it's usually not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 this is all starting to sound like warseer ;) I hope not :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Sorry, brothers...my original statement was pretty clear to me, but on rereading it, I can see how ambiguous it was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 No harm, no foul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Drugding this thread up as it's previously mentioned list overlaps with my own army... Going to be playing Orks very soon at 2000 points. We only touched on Orks a tad in the beginning of this thread, so I thought I would ask for any specific pointers from you folks in handling them. I have a feeling it will probably be a mech list of some sort. This is my planned list thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Keep your distance. Focus on the nearest/speediest threat. Try to reduce their numbers to 7 or less so they become prone to fail morale checks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 If you play orks you might want to decrease the TH/SS and increase the Stormbolters. I have a horrible rash and unimaginably bad body odour. I also have a seriously flipant personality disorder :P . Really now?I hang out with people like that daily.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 I run a standard GKT list rather than paladins with a vindicare for support. Anti-pally tactics might not work so well as I'll have equal to or even more termies going against the Deathwing. I mix my weapon loads so each ten man squad has 2xhalberds, 2xswords, 2xhammers, 2xfalchions a banner and a warding staff. That's 2 4+ saves and a 2+save against the thunder hammers and a hellof allot of attacks to force the ss saves to fail. plenty of psycannons and the vindicare to gun down the vees as I apporach and I tend to deepstrike so range isn't too much of an issue. bearing in mind these factors, what would you do against it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Thanks guys. If you play orks you might want to decrease the TH/SS and increase the Stormbolters. Good point, maybe I'll go 2x TH/SS in each squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riddles Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 I run a standard GKT list rather than paladins with a vindicare for support. Anti-pally tactics might not work so well as I'll have equal to or even more termies going against the Deathwing. I mix my weapon loads so each ten man squad has 2xhalberds, 2xswords, 2xhammers, 2xfalchions a banner and a warding staff. That's 2 4+ saves and a 2+save against the thunder hammers and a hellof allot of attacks to force the ss saves to fail. plenty of psycannons and the vindicare to gun down the vees as I apporach and I tend to deepstrike so range isn't too much of an issue. bearing in mind these factors, what would you do against it? fight 10 paladins with 3 terminator squads. reign fire dhown on them as they approach. if they deepstrike they have a. really big footprint that i can drop frag templates onto (assuming they don't mishap) and b.) may well end up within charge charge so the dw get the jump on them. with maxed THSS, paladin armies are the least of a deathwing player's worries. the vindicare can shoot 1 target per turn. woop de doo. typhoons will have cover from predators and good pred placement can get cover from elsewhere. if deathwing get the charge, the paladins come out hurting, no matter how they are equipped. if its an objective game, the deathwing player marches onto the objectives and stays there. safe in the knowledge that the pallys can't cover all the bases. draigowing should not be a problem for competitive deathwing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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