Shooty Deathwing

[MontyBob]

Am I the only person here who runs shooty deathwing?

 

And if I'm not would anyone ever advocate use of a heavy flamer in the squad or would that be too much of a one shot wonder against the type of enemy it'd be useful against (nids/orks/guard)?

[shabbadoo]

The heavy flamer is best used in two instances:

 

1. You Deepstrike *accurately* and roast the hell out of something. But accurate Deepstrike only happens 1-in-3 times, unless you have a teleport homer out there, so this is not the most sound of tactics to rely on unless you have a decent-size Ravenwing contingent(as to even use the heavy flamer the Ravenwing will have to be really, really close to the enemy). Getting to go first on Turn 1 is obviously a key advantage.

 

2. Land Raider move-disembark-roast-assault. that is the bets tactic, but you do run the risk of killing too many enemies and then ending up out of Assault range. Still, this will be the best tactic for heavy flamers most of the time.

 

Any heavy weapon, plus a good amount of storm bolters, is "shooty" so far as it regard Deathwing. Heavy flamers do well enough simply be virtue of laying so many wounds on the enemy, even those in power armor (6 wounds = 2 kills). For power armored enemies, just a single heavy flamer shot may mean a loss of 30 points for the cost of a cheap heavy flamer.

[BigGumbo]

I'm planning on including a Heavy Flamer in an otherwise Claws-equipped squad, which will generally be riding in a Raider. Otherwise I prefer ACs for the greater range.

[Isiah]

And if I'm not would anyone ever advocate use of a heavy flamer in the squad or would that be too much of a one shot wonder against the type of enemy it'd be useful against (nids/orks/guard)?

 

I'm not a big fan of the heavy flamer in DW squads - mainly because I generally don't use LR/LRC transports to assault out of. In that situation it is OK to use. But IMHO once you've made that first disembark/template/assault then you are back to square one with probably nothing within range to use it against which is a waste.

 

Also, the heavy flamer works well against a narrow range of target types - which again cuts down your target options.

 

In our situation against those opponents I'd say yes if you're in transports. If not, your heavy flamers will only get to shot just prior to any close combat. You really want those footslogging squads to be hitting stuff sooner and from the saftey of range

 

Me .... I still love the ac despite the current cyclone spam (but I am guilty of doing that too :)) as it can hit a wide range of target types with a lot of shots. Best mix option is around 25 or 33%/66 or 75% in favour of cyclones - whereas back in 4th edition and early 5th prior to cyclone boost the mix was the other way around.

 

IMHO, best place for the heavy flamer is a Dreadnought :lol:.

 

Cheers

I

[riddles]

depends what you define as shooty. my basic deathwing squad runs:

 

THSS

THSS

cyclone/bolter/fist

bolter/fist

bolter/chainfist

 

Which has: long range anti light and medium armour. long range anti light infantry, medium range anti light infantry.

 

I see the advantage of the heavy flamer in Land Raider transported squads, but there are still times when you don't want to be crashing towards the enemy lines even with that army build. cyclones help there. heavy flamers do not.

 

the cost of assault cannons and the limited range put me off.

[march10k]

As said, it's good on a guided DWA squad or a mounted assault squad. I disagree somewhat with the "the flamer will kill its way out of charge range" thing...if only 2-3 models are in charge range, of course you don't shoot! If you're close enough to roast more than that, you're not likely to flame your way out of charge range unless the enemy breaks and runs...in which case melee casualties would probably have had the same effect, so your job is finished without moving out of coherency with the land raider...so mounting back up and moving on is much simpler...if you charge and then pursue, the land raider has to waste a turn chasing you down, probably not in the direction of the next target...

 

I see a use for an AC in one situation: you're DWAing more than one squad off of the same bike (or DWAing with scatter), since it's nearly impossible to get ideal shots for two flame templates off of one bike.

 

For any squad deploying normally on foot, cyclones all the way!

[Brother Kovash]

I have a heavy flamer built for use in my close combat squads. The poor model rarely sees play, but when he does he often makes up his point value. Especially against horde armies like tyrannids and orks, a heavy flamer is a powerful weapon.

 

I've usually used one with my Dreadnought when I deploy more than one as well. A dread with an assault cannon and a heavy flamer can take out quite a bit off infantry when given the chance. Not to mention the potential to assault after shooting and tying up a unit in close combat.

[MontyBob]

Well, I'm making my fourth squad up now, the other three are 2 shooty (assault cannons, storm bolters and a chainfist to take care of any tank like nasties) and the last is all hammernators (+cyclone if I have the points) to rock around with Belial.

 

My thought about assault cannon v heavy flamer was that if you only get one shot that makes up a heavy flamers points values, the likely hood is making back far more with an assault cannon where you can instant death eldar (esp. witches with fnp) and still have something with a decent chance of chewing through tanks.

 

The squad after this one (as it rounds out the deathknell if i should ever fancy doing apocalypse with them) would probably be hammers and cyclone.

[Brother dean]

It's always a good idea to have a Chainfist in an assault squad for the odd dread/trukk/chimera, and if you dont have the points for an AC then the flamer does just fine. I run three squads (One choppy, one choppy with AC and one choppy with a flamer) in LRs when I run assaulty and I do okay.

[Brother Kovash]

The assault cannon definitely has it's uses. I've used mine to wreck ork trukks and opposing land speeders with it's rending special rule, and also like Brother MontyBob mentioned killed toughness 3 models instantly with the AC. I often deploy my shooty squads onto the table, then deepstrike in my other units.

[Black Mage 257]

Am I the only person here who runs shooty deathwing?

 

And if I'm not would anyone ever advocate use of a heavy flamer in the squad or would that be too much of a one shot wonder against the type of enemy it'd be useful against (nids/orks/guard)?

 

I've been think about this recently to be honest. I've been playing DA for a few years now, I tend to run a mixed force using both Ravenwing and Deathwing. As I'm playing Angels of Absolution, I'm trying to make a standard sort of DA marine force rather than Deathwing or Ravenwing heavy.

 

My terminators however are all painted in Deathwing along with my Dreads etc, and I've always fancied trying out a Deathwing army but I'm in constant fear of doing so simply because of range.

 

I'm a shooter, I shoot questions first and then shoot the answers....... with guns. I heavily rely on shooting and tend to have only one or two CC orientated units as CC is never a strong point for me (never ends well.) So I thought if I could create a shooty deathwing army I would love to try it, but I've been unsuccessfully hammering at lists for a while noww and I've never been able to come up with anything I see as a viable list. I'd be interestedd to see how others do it or if it can be achieved. Don't get me wrong I'm happy to play Deathwing in fun games etc, but losing every game I play will not be fun and probably throw me off the idea :)

 

Also as a note on the heavy flamer, I like the idea although I think it may be too awkward to be viable on the turn you land, (unless supported by homers etc) but afterwards definetly so, especially if you are having to slog that little bit of gap you scattered. I used to run units like this amongst my normal force and found that with the exception of the turn I land (I usually always scatter if not guided) the heavy flamer is an excellent addition to Deathwing termies, however the only problem is in my excitement I've tended to flame too much and leave myself unable to reach in assualt or wiping units out completely (Poor little Kroot....) and leaving myself vunerable. I've found it to be a balancing act in the right situation, (i.e mass low save units) are excellent to use it against as it will inflict high casualties and leave you the option of assualt.

[riddles]

Shooty deathwing:

 

belial

 

4x dw squads - cyclone missile launcher. sprinkling of THSS

 

3 land speeder typhoons

 

3 predators - autocannon, las sponsons.

 

about as shooty as we get.

[BigGumbo]

The assault cannon definitely has it's uses. I've used mine to wreck ork trukks and opposing land speeders with it's rending special rule,

 

Or Stormravens :D. OK so you need to be a bit lucky, but the AC does have the potential to take out any infantry or armoured vehicles that you can come up against, which to my mind makes it pretty much indispensable in an all (or mainly) Deathwing army as neither the cyclone nor the heavy flamer can say the same. You don't have to spam them and you don't have to put them in Termy squads (dreads or Tornados would do), but you always ought to have one or two in there.

[templarphoenix]

My current 1500 pts deathwing is Shooty deathwing.

 

Belial geared by D3 (lol)

Termi 1: PW+SB / PF+SB / PF+SB / PF+SB / PF+AC

Termi 2: PW+SB / PF+SB / PF+SB / PF+SB / PF+AC

Termi 3: THSS x2 / TwinLC x2 / TwinLC + CML

Termi 4: THSS / PF+SB / PF+SB / PF+SB / PF+AC

Termi 5: TwinLC / PF+SB+Medic / PF+SB+Standard / PF+SB / PF+HF

Dread with PC

(Team 4 and 5 comes from spacehulk with some custom modification)

 

Though they seems strangely geared and non-competitive, at least I have 100% winning rate against power-armoured armies.

 

 

Edit: Spelling

[RayJ]

The deal with shooty-heavy Deathwing is not that theya re bad. It is that they cannot stand up to close combat specialists. That is the primary reason we run storm shields on some of our squads in most lists. If your playstyle allows you to compensate for the vulnerability in close combat, by all means keep up what is working for you.

 

I personally use assaulting as a form of extra movement with my Deathwing whenever it is beneficial to do so. This increases the movement speed of the army a tad and makes taking far objectives much easier. In the style of play I tend towards, the extra close combat durability helps me achieve my goals in game more reliably. This is why I recommend the same to others.

[Black Mage 257]

My current 1500 pts deathwing is Shooty deathwing.

 

Belial geared by D3 (lol)

Termi 1: PW+SB / PF+SB / PF+SB / PF+SB / PF+AC

Termi 2: PW+SB / PF+SB / PF+SB / PF+SB / PF+AC

Termi 3: THSS x2 / TwinLC x2 / TwinLC + CML

Termi 4: THSS / PF+SB / PF+SB / PF+SB / PF+AC

Termi 5: TwinLC / PF+SB+Medic / PF+SB+Standard / PF+SB / PF+HF

Dread with PC

(Team 4 and 5 comes from spacehulk with some custom modification)

 

Though they seems strangely geared and non-competitive, at least I have 100% winning rate against power-armoured armies.

 

 

Edit: Spelling

 

I actually quite like this list, I'd definetly like to try this out at some point, I'm assuming you use Deathwing Assault to deliver your termies, but have you tried using Land Raiders at all as I've always figured they'd be a great addition to a Shooty Deathwing force, I've always just had trouble balancing out the points for them as I always feel I'm too low on numbers with Deathwing lists as Land raiders tend to be expensive (usually the cost of a termie squad).

[MontyBob]

In 1500 points I think I'd probably end up taking an LRC purely as a bullet magnet - I'd rather massed devestator squads were using an LRC as a target than DWA squads that scatter into LOS.

 

As a bit of extra oomph I'd probably add at least one Ravenwing squadron and a predator annhilator. I'd feel reasonably comfortable putting them in with 4 squads of deathwing as there's a lot of heavy armourered stuff to deal with...