A Question Concerning How I Should Run My Bikes

[Mercy 0f Spades]

Howdy Rock! (has a nice ring to it!)

 

Most of y'all are aware that I've recently bought a Ravenwing battleforce for my DA. Now that the models are very close to being 100% assembled and converted (I love my Apothecary) I am beginning to question how I should run them. Let me show you what I mean. Also, for clarity's sake I want to say that I have a total of 8 bikes, not 7. (got a scout bike in a trade).

 

Option #1

 

Ravenwing Attack Squadron

6 Bikes

1 Attack Bike

 

*Contains 2 Plasma/Melta Guns, Sergeant with Powerfist, Apothecary, Standard Bearer. Attack Bike has a Multi Melta

 

 

Option #2

 

Ravenwing Attack Squadron

3 Bikes

1 Attack Bike

 

*Contains 2 Plasma/Melta Guns, Sergeant with Powerfist, Apothecary, Standard Bearer. Attack Bike has a Multi Melta

 

Ravenwing Attack Squadron

3 Bikes

1 Attack Bike

 

*Contains 2 Plasma/Melta Guns, Sergeant with Powerfist, Attack Bike has a Multi Melta

 

 

 

So there you have it. Which one would you choose and why? I'm planning on using these guys for Outflanking. The second squad on the second option may be used for its Teleport Homer.

 

 

 

-edit-

Everything is magnetized ;)

[Chaplain Lucifer]

#4 - 3 bikes, 2 meltaguns attack bike with MM. sgt may have meltabombs.

 

All this depends on your army. if you have terminators and sammael present I would run as #1 (with plasmaguns) everything else #4 (#3 if you really want that powerfist so bad)

 

The fact is that bike squads are expensive for what they do. With 2 meltas and outflanking they're OK. But if you choose 6 of them all geared up as in #1 they are "wasted" outflanking since they become a resilient support unit... but the key here is resilient because they don't shoot that good and they don't fight in CC that good. They're just a juicy target hard to bring down that can absorb some firepower or tie up units in CC so others can advance (and rescue them) . Except for #1 you really don't want bikes in CC unless they are engaged with a equivalent small unit (say a 5 men dev squad).

 

my 2 cents.

[riddles]

as support/outflank units:

 

3 bikes, 2 meltaguns, multimelta attack bike. sargeant has meltabombs if you can afford it.

[Mercy 0f Spades]

#4 - 3 bikes, 2 meltaguns attack bike with MM. sgt may have meltabombs.

 

All this depends on your army. if you have terminators and sammael present I would run as #1 (with plasmaguns) everything else #4 (#3 if you really want that powerfist so bad)

 

The fact is that bike squads are expensive for what they do. With 2 meltas and outflanking they're OK. But if you choose 6 of them all geared up as in #1 they are "wasted" outflanking since they become a resilient support unit... but the key here is resilient because they don't shoot that good and they don't fight in CC that good. They're just a juicy target hard to bring down that can absorb some firepower or tie up units in CC so others can advance (and rescue them) . Except for #1 you really don't want bikes in CC unless they are engaged with a equivalent small unit (say a 5 men dev squad).

 

my 2 cents.

 

 

Option #3?... there were only 2 options listed... Either way, what would you say is the best use of a large command squad of Ravenwing?

[riddles]

sitting on your shelf :)

 

jokes. The traditional use for a command squad is a beatstick. The ravenwing command squad, with access to a mighty 1 power weapon/fist and no invunerables is not suited for this task.

 

if you're going to use it at all - apothecary, 2 plasma guns.

[CAM77]

sitting on your shelf :P

 

jokes. The traditional use for a command squad is a beatstick. The ravenwing command squad, with access to a mighty 1 power weapon/fist and no invunerables is not suited for this task.

 

if you're going to use it at all - apothecary, 2 plasma guns.

 

I agree with this. When I run the command squad this is how I do it. The standard on these guys is just a waste of points, but 4 plasma shots with near immunity to Gets Hot! due to FNP from the apothecary can be decent. I'm still not sure that this is better than 2 meltaguns though. I also try to run with the minimum number of normal bikes, it makes them easier to hide, and honestly, for me, the whole reason to take the attack squad is for the attack bike.

[march10k]

I agree... 4 bikes. Nothing but maybe meltabombs on the sergeant. Apo only if taking plasma.

 

The only alternative is this:

 

In a DWA-centric list take:

 

7 bikes, with two meltas and a power sword sergeant and multimelta AB. And a bike-interogator. Scout the main squad to the point where you want to DWA ten or eleven while leaving a "tail" for the chaplain to join on turn one. Drop the termies, move up while having the chappy join up, and charge something. The chappy won't be close enough to fight this round, but the rerolls will apply, and the pile in will pull him in closer, and he should be a full participant from turn two. Meanwhile, the bikes, having DWAed two termie squads, are tying up a portion of the enemy and perhaps blocking some shooting in the process, buying time for the termies to get their fecal matter amalgamated. Thing is, with the chappy there, while expensive, they're effective in melee against anything that isn't a dedicated melee unit. I wouldn't take a fist, though, your model count is low enough that you risk (later on, when you've taken a few casualties) losing the sergeant before I1.

[riddles]

I agree... 4 bikes. Nothing but maybe meltabombs on the sergeant. Apo only if taking plasma.

 

The only alternative is this:

 

In a DWA-centric list take:

 

7 bikes, with two meltas and a power sword sergeant and multimelta AB. And a bike-interogator. Scout the main squad to the point where you want to DWA ten or eleven while leaving a "tail" for the chaplain to join on turn one. Drop the termies, move up while having the chappy join up, and charge something. The chappy won't be close enough to fight this round, but the rerolls will apply, and the pile in will pull him in closer, and he should be a full participant from turn two. Meanwhile, the bikes, having DWAed two termie squads, are tying up a portion of the enemy and perhaps blocking some shooting in the process, buying time for the termies to get their fecal matter amalgamated. Thing is, with the chappy there, while expensive, they're effective in melee against anything that isn't a dedicated melee unit. I wouldn't take a fist, though, your model count is low enough that you risk (later on, when you've taken a few casualties) losing the sergeant before I1.

 

what?? March, everything i've read that you've posted has been sound advice but this? this is madness!

 

[waits for someone to yell "No...THIS. IS. CALIBAN!"]

[march10k]

Have you tried it? I did, a couple of years ago... granted, the meta has changed since then, but my circa 2009 list of 3 dreddies, 8 bikes, and 16 termies was unstoppable.

 

The idea was to overload one end of the enemy's deployment zone by dumping 11 termies and 7 bikes in there on turn one, while the attack bike slides in the back door (the opposite flank) to make it impossible for the enemy to safely sell out to a counter-attack, since the AB has a telehomer, and there are five more termies waiting in orbit....meanwhile, the dreddies are advancing up the middle...the enemy is pressed on both flanks and in the center, so he's forced to accept my local superiority on that one flank, which I roll up in short order. IIRC, the list went something like 23-2-3 before I retired it. The two losses were dual lash (only lost to them the first time I faced them) and dual-buried-fist-lost-n-damned. In most games, the enemy never left his deployment zone and was reacting to my moves the whole way.

[Mercy 0f Spades]

Sounds very doable. I just wish I had more than one squad of Deathwing...

[riddles]

Have you tried it? I did, a couple of years ago... granted, the meta has changed since then, but my circa 2009 list of 3 dreddies, 8 bikes, and 16 termies was unstoppable.

 

The idea was to overload one end of the enemy's deployment zone by dumping 11 termies and 7 bikes in there on turn one, while the attack bike slides in the back door (the opposite flank) to make it impossible for the enemy to safely sell out to a counter-attack, since the AB has a telehomer, and there are five more termies waiting in orbit....meanwhile, the dreddies are advancing up the middle...the enemy is pressed on both flanks and in the center, so he's forced to accept my local superiority on that one flank, which I roll up in short order. IIRC, the list went something like 23-2-3 before I retired it. The two losses were dual lash (only lost to them the first time I faced them) and dual-buried-fist-lost-n-damned. In most games, the enemy never left his deployment zone and was reacting to my moves the whole way.

 

I have a pathological need to use 5 deathwing squads at 1750. sounds like it works though, so kudos!

[CAM77]

Have you tried it? I did, a couple of years ago... granted, the meta has changed since then, but my circa 2009 list of 3 dreddies, 8 bikes, and 16 termies was unstoppable.

 

The idea was to overload one end of the enemy's deployment zone by dumping 11 termies and 7 bikes in there on turn one, while the attack bike slides in the back door (the opposite flank) to make it impossible for the enemy to safely sell out to a counter-attack, since the AB has a telehomer, and there are five more termies waiting in orbit....meanwhile, the dreddies are advancing up the middle...the enemy is pressed on both flanks and in the center, so he's forced to accept my local superiority on that one flank, which I roll up in short order. IIRC, the list went something like 23-2-3 before I retired it. The two losses were dual lash (only lost to them the first time I faced them) and dual-buried-fist-lost-n-damned. In most games, the enemy never left his deployment zone and was reacting to my moves the whole way.

 

This is a really interesting tactic and list, I have a couple questions though.

 

1. What was the role of the dreads and how did you equip them? Were they fire support, or were they advancing in order to tie up units in CC? Were they venerable or regular?

 

2. Do you think that the same thing could work with a smaller bike squad, or without the chaplain, or were they indispensable in order to improve the overall CC killyness of the list?

 

I have a list that I've been working on that is a bit like this one but was not sure how viable it would be, hence all the questions :lol:

[march10k]

1. Yes to everything...two venerables with DCCW and HF (one TLAC, one PC) firing as they advance, one standard hellfire hanging back.

 

2. I played and tweaked and lost games for a few months before I settled on that format and went on my winning streak. The thing that the bikes did was get locked up with infantry-based fire support units much faster than the terminators who would have been overkill in that role anyway. Against one specific enemy that was popular at the time, which was the flying circus, they brought down the house with their ability to zip in close from outside the harlies' charge range and lay down the boltgun fire, absolutely murdering them. That's less relevant in today's meta, of course, but three bikes with no power weapon are not really capable of beating a full devastator squad, for example, and that remains relevant (longfangs, anyone?) They're obviously not as good at melee as termies, but they're fast, and, being fast, get to pick their fights, and there are plenty of targets out there that 7 bikes with two power weapons can handle.

 

I played that list like three years ago, I don't really know how it would fare today! I think one of the keys to its success was that the three different unit types had little overlap in terms of capabilities and more especially vulnerabilities, and were generally speaking invulnerable to small arms fire, while having some form of protection against high-strength, low AP fire. What tended to happen is that my list would take fairly heavy casualties (low model count in a D6 based system makes that unavoidable) while obliterating enemy forces. I'd say that the average was 60% casualties for me and 80% for my opponents, with a fair few tablings. Funny thing was, in any given game, one of the three legs of my stool would get obliterated with embarrasing ease (have you seen what masses harlequin kisses do to dreadnoughts??? Of course, when they inevitably exploded, they tended to do lethal damage to the offending clown posse), while another "pulled its weight" and the third won the game. IIRC, the bikes were really good at digging squads with above average cover saves out of the woods, multi-charging gunlines, charging melta-units like fire dragons from outside their effective range, and contesting objectives at the last second via ridiculously long turboboosts. Three bikes wouldn't have done the job anywhere near as well!