ANCIENT FALOR Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Read outcast dead. they mention a 1k son being an adept exemptus. where does that fall in, is it higher than a philosiphous? I get the impression he is capable of all the disciplines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I would say yes, but only because Arhiman who was a philosiphus and Arhiman couldn't use any of the disciplines other than Corvidae until the end of the novel. But it could also be some sort secondary rank for those who choose to study all of the disciplines. But the biggest problem I have with it is that in A Thousand Sons, it gives the impression that none of them could venture outof their chosen disciplines until te end of the novel after they were transported to the Planet of Sorcerers. But that might be because they were specialize in specific disciplines like I already said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I would hazard a guess that it is a very high rank of psyker but can't be superior to Ahriman seeing as he was the chief librarian of the legion. Adept Exemptus might just mean that he has a different focus, perhaps it's a little bit of a jack of all trades master of none. Atharva was good, but not that good haha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kierdale Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I don't remember the specifics but I do remember looking up a lot of the 1kSons titles and ranks when I first read A Thousand Sons...to find they seem to originate with the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, the A∴A∴ and other magical orders from history. From the HOotGD: First Order Introduction—Neophyte Zelator Theoricus Practicus Philosophus Intermediate—Portal Grade Second Order Adeptus Minor Adeptus Major Adeptus Exemptus Third Order Magister Templi Magus Ipsissimus When I have time I'll check through my ATS notes again... EDIT: page 255 mentions that the captains of the Fellowships, the senior warriors of the Pesedjet, bore the title of Magister Templi. That, understandably, puts them only one rank below Magnus (the magus...who is below the Ipsissimus: the Emperor, beloved by all :P ). Then Atharva (from The Outcast Dead), as an Adept Exemptus, is only one rank down from the Fellowship captains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Awesome list of the ranks cheers! I'm definitely taking notes from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Well I'm not sure where the ranking in a squad would exactly fit into this but since Ahriman is Choef Librarian but Artharva is not as powerful as Ahriman(could be because of the "general" training versus "specific") but is it possible that some of these ranks are skipped, maybe turned around? I am only saying this because Ahriman is still stated to be the Chief Librarian if I remember correctly but Artharva would be a hire rank, but still refers to Arhiman as not neccessarily a rank superior but as a skill superior. It's when he is explaining precognition to Tagore I believe in The Outcast Dead. Is it even possible that the ranks are ordered in relation to the whether or not they were specific in a certain order? Artharva says that he first specialized as an Atheanean but was limited to the basics everywhere else. Sorry I know it seems like I'm really complicating this all up I'm just wondering if Graham McNeill just maybe heard all of these second-hand but didn't bother learning the actual order maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I'm sure I read somewhere that Ahriman was second only in psychic mastery to Magnus himself... Can't source that though, I might have dreamed it! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 That's what I thought but since I don't have my copy of A Thousand Sons on me, didn't it say his rank was a philosophicus? Or am I remembering wrong? But even then, he only had the power of the Corvidae. I do remember that he was surprised he could use the Pyrae at the end of the novel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kierdale Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The warhammer40kwikia has Ahriman listed as: Captain of the 1st Fellowship and Magister Templi of the Corvidae Cult Looks like he's top crow and one step down from the Crimson King. I'd say the boosting of his (and others') abilities at the end of A Thousand Sons was due to Tzeentch's power over them. As for Atharva, I'm re-reading The Outcast Dead now to see what he has to say about Ahriman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Okay thanks because I was going through whirlwinds in my read an like I said, I don't have my copy around so I couldn't look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I'm sure I read somewhere that Ahriman was second only in psychic mastery to Magnus himself... Can't source that though, I might have dreamed it! :cuss Index Astartes vol III; I was reading that this morning. Jase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I'm sure I read somewhere that Ahriman was second only in psychic mastery to Magnus himself... Can't source that though, I might have dreamed it! :lol: Index Astartes vol III; I was reading that this morning. Jase Awesome! Thanks for sourcing haha :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Hawk Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Way I see it Adept Exemptus' are like Librarians in the GKs- while most of the legion specialises on one disciple of the arcane, the Adept Exemptus' have access to a wide variety of spells, to use as the mission dictates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Worms Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 An Adeptus Exemptus in the A.'. A.'. is 'broadly" equivalent to a PhD or post-doctoral degree. Aside from personal attainments you must write a dissertation and be a founder of a "school of thought". It's a pretty big deal, at the time of the original Golden Dawn and Theosophy it was largely considered to be the highest level attainable while yet living (due to Hinduisms influence on theosophy). A good analog is that The Buddha was an Adeptus Exemptus when he sat under the Bodhi tree, after which he crossed the abyss and became a Magister Templi. You can read about it here. http://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib13.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justcar Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Yeah, Adept Exemptus is the third highest rank in the Thousand Sons legion. One attains the rank of "Adept" when the marine passes the dominus liminus and has attained significant mastery of the highest enumerations. Keep in mind though, that Magistar Templi is a rank that seems to be independent of the Adept Exemptus rank, as Hathor Maat was not an Adept Exemptus. Furthermore, Thousand Sons have, if they are sufficiently powerful, the ability to use multiple disciplines (i.e. Ahriman using his staff to set people on fire). I believe there are three independent ranking systems in the legion: cult system: highest rank = Magistar Templi (the best practitioner of the cult's abilities) psychic mastery rand: highest rank = Adept Exemptus (complete mastery of their psychic abilities) legion rank: highest rank = captain of the 1st fellowship/chief librarian If that helps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineswords Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 The Adeptus titles refers to mastery of the Enumerations - so therefore Adeptus Exemplars such as Ahzek Ahriman have mastered all ten levels of the Enumerations, which is why other Captains or cult masters may not have Adeptus Exemplar status. Completely agreed with Justcar above. As one of the Legion’s Adept Exemptus, he had attained supreme summits of mastery, aetheric flight, connection with a Tutelary, and the rites of evocation and invocation. Ahriman shook his head. Like him, Hathor Maat had faced the Dominus Liminus, but his mastery of the Enumerations was that of Adept Major. Only Uthizzar hesitated. The young Adept Minor had only recently ascended to the role of Magister Templi, and Ahriman could not look at him without feeling the sorrow of Aphophis’ death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineswords Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Whoops. Double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineswords Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I've spent a considerable amount of time beginning to collate some much more detailed notes regarding the Thousand Sons Pre-Heresy structure and ranking systems here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CZpz7FE...S1aV--UgBE/edit The Lexicanum notes that Adept ranks are Enumeratory, and like Justcar suggested, I have tried to fit the rankings which are divided between the formal military structure of the Legiones Astartes, the cult rankings of the Thousand Sons, and the Enumeratory ranks. I suspect that once the rank of Philosophus is achieved and the Dominus Liminus past within a practitioners parent cult, then any Adept ranking member of the Thousand Sons begins to master the Higher Enumerations and begins to wield skill in other cult abilities - which would explain Atharva's Adept Exemptus status and use of other cult abilities beyond his own in the Outcast Dead. The Inner Circle of the Greater Mysteries ranks seems to mesh nicely with the Rehahti's command structure, and also explains why not all the Captains of the Fellowships are masters of the cults, nor hold Adeptus Exemplar status - some like Anku Ahnen are guardians of other TS assets. The Enumerations are used by all cult ranks as a tool, but reading between the lines, only higher ranked warriors of rank Philosophus or above Adepts have mastery of the Higher Enumerations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANCIENT FALOR Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 Very helpful nine swords. Thanks a bunch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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