Can you assault over 6”?

[dswanick]

wow guys before you label this cheating realize one thing, when the unit assaults, it does so as a unit not on a per model basis so it is considered that the lone wolf and the war gear move at the same time so theoretically the wolf is never more than 2 away from his master. Also while they establish that the assault phase follows rules of the movement phase, this should be specifically for the rules they name, after all this is a common use tactic for sling shooting , honestly I dont use it because I like my lone wolves as the name states ALONE(no wolves either), but I believe it is a viable tactic and LEGITIMATE tactic. Also if that wasnt true jump infantry would treat difficult terrain as dangerous during the assault phase as well, which I've never seen do.

No, it is not. The Fen.Wolves may not move more than 6" in the Assault Phase. See the above quoted rule. The Assault Phase rule follows all of the rules for the Movement Phase except the one specifically mentioned as being ignored (ie staying 1" away from enemy models). If a Fen.Wolf model moves more than 6" in the Assault Phase while in a unit with the Lone Wolf, it has performed an illegal move - the player has just cheated.

[Warhead01]

Could you post a link I would like to see what your referring to was it a 40K nation batrep?...

 

While it is true that the unit you have described would not be able to assault further than 6" the space that the wolves are from the lone wolf is important to note. if say that unit was set in a position where the wolves were 2"ahead of the lone wolf and assaulted he would follow and end his move at 6" as would the fenwolves. but the unit they contacted would have to move their models into base to base so the lone wolf could very well be in base to base after that.

 

One more thought about this. This will come into play when facing larger units like ork mobs or any other large glob of models, as they will have enough models to mace contact back as far as the lone wolf. the "extra inches" gained is in the other units forced movement to contact. so if it were possible for one of the models in the assaulted unit to reach the lone wolf then they would have to do so. After that it's all up to the luck of the dice gods!

 

 

That would be legal move iirc, this is a common movement for most units. as mentioned before the wolves would not assault beyond the inf assault range ie 6".

The slingshot as I have seen it done is with either using an IC joining a unit in front or behind o make sure either are able to assault. it the IC joins from the front allowing the unit to also assault, meaning that with out him they would have been ot of range or the reverse, meaning that he joined to tag along into combat.

[Spacefrisian]

@uberwolve: Could you read all the posts, he will try to get a link here to the youtube video about it, so he said after i asked it.

[Inquisitor Boreal]

Could you post a link I would like to see what your referring to was it a 40K nation batrep?...

 

While it is true that the unit you have described would not be able to assault further than 6" the space that the wolves are from the lone wolf is important to note. if say that unit was set in a position where the wolves were 2"ahead of the lone wolf and assaulted he would follow and end his move at 6" as would the fenwolves. but the unit they contacted would have to move their models into base to base so the lone wolf could very well be in base to base after that.

 

One more thought about this. This will come into play when facing larger units like ork mobs or any other large glob of models, as they will have enough models to mace contact back as far as the lone wolf. the "extra inches" gained is in the other units forced movement to contact. so if it were possible for one of the models in the assaulted unit to reach the lone wolf then they would have to do so. After that it's all up to the luck of the dice gods!

 

 

That would be legal move iirc, this is a common movement for most units. as mentioned before the wolves would not assault beyond the inf assault range ie 6".

The slingshot as I have seen it done is with either using an IC joining a unit in front or behind o make sure either are able to assault. it the IC joins from the front allowing the unit to also assault, meaning that with out him they would have been ot of range or the reverse, meaning that he joined to tag along into combat.

 

For the FW / LW example the fact that pile-in would put someone into base contact with the LW doesn't matter as he would be within 2" of someone already in B2B and thus able to hit.

 

At the end of the day, no matter what the scenario, he can move the wolves and lone wolves about but none of them may end their movement more than 6" away from where they started.

[Warhead01]

yes you are right, I did read the page before this and it seemed like a lot of noise, not to be rude, I worrie some times that

"young pups" will be confused when things are not ?explained? I have seen many arguments that at first look like they might hole some merit but when we look closer do not follow the rules. I have also seen some strange stuff on BoW that ...well it isn't ...?correct....

Any of us could have just said no it isn't possible or legal so I thought the example would help a little.

Some players try their best to not make contact with certain models (I.C"s) if the can find a way to avoid it or clam not to have known the rules so I thought the pile in might also help with the other example as well.

 

@uberwolve: Could you read all the posts, he will try to get a link here to the youtube video about it, so he said after i asked it.

Just a ?reminder? lol

[Stormshadow]

[dswanick]

Just watched the video, and commented on it. The video poster promotes an illegal charge by having the Fen.Wolf behind the Lone Wolf and charging him more than 6" into base contact.

[Wulfebane]

Just watched the video, and commented on it. The video poster promotes an illegal charge by having the Fen.Wolf behind the Lone Wolf and charging him more than 6" into base contact.

 

Wow... utter failure. I will commend him on legitimizing the wound allocation potential that a Lone Wolf equipped with fen wolves benefits from, since a Lone Wolf is not labelled as an Independent Character, they can not be singled out from their "unit" which means the wolf can take the bulk of the wounds, even in close combat.

[Inquisitor Boreal]

Just watched the video, and commented on it. The video poster promotes an illegal charge by having the Fen.Wolf behind the Lone Wolf and charging him more than 6" into base contact.

 

Wow... utter failure. I will commend him on legitimizing the wound allocation potential that a Lone Wolf equipped with fen wolves benefits from, since a Lone Wolf is not labelled as an Independent Character, they can not be singled out from their "unit" which means the wolf can take the bulk of the wounds, even in close combat.

 

Although true, with just one wolf in there the wounds the wolf would take is still just one more than what the LW would take no matter how many where scored on the two.

 

This may sound harsh, but it´s ridiculous how many armchair quarterbacks / tournament winners we´ve got putting out videos explaining tactics these days.

[dswanick]

Just watched the video, and commented on it. The video poster promotes an illegal charge by having the Fen.Wolf behind the Lone Wolf and charging him more than 6" into base contact.

 

Wow... utter failure. I will commend him on legitimizing the wound allocation potential that a Lone Wolf equipped with fen wolves benefits from, since a Lone Wolf is not labelled as an Independent Character, they can not be singled out from their "unit" which means the wolf can take the bulk of the wounds, even in close combat.

 

Although true, with just one wolf in there the wounds the wolf would take is still just one more than what the LW would take no matter how many where scored on the two.

 

This may sound harsh, but it´s ridiculous how many armchair quarterbacks / tournament winners we´ve got putting out videos explaining tactics these days.

No true. With two models (as in the example), the Fen.Wolf must take 1/2 of all the wounds scored on the unit - (and should take 1/2 + 1 wounds in the case of an odd number). All of the worste wounds (ID, PW, etc) should go on the Fen.Wolf and any wounds in excess of those needed to kill the Wolf won't carry over to the L.W. because they are different wound allocation groups.

[Inquisitor Boreal]

Just watched the video, and commented on it. The video poster promotes an illegal charge by having the Fen.Wolf behind the Lone Wolf and charging him more than 6" into base contact.

 

Wow... utter failure. I will commend him on legitimizing the wound allocation potential that a Lone Wolf equipped with fen wolves benefits from, since a Lone Wolf is not labelled as an Independent Character, they can not be singled out from their "unit" which means the wolf can take the bulk of the wounds, even in close combat.

 

Although true, with just one wolf in there the wounds the wolf would take is still just one more than what the LW would take no matter how many where scored on the two.

 

This may sound harsh, but it´s ridiculous how many armchair quarterbacks / tournament winners we´ve got putting out videos explaining tactics these days.

No true. With two models (as in the example), the Fen.Wolf must take 1/2 of all the wounds scored on the unit - (and should take 1/2 + 1 wounds in the case of an odd number). All of the worste wounds (ID, PW, etc) should go on the Fen.Wolf and any wounds in excess of those needed to kill the Wolf won't carry over to the L.W. because they are different wound allocation groups.

 

But the wounds are still split (with the +1 in the case of odd numbers), you just put the nastiest ones on the wolf, I never talked about power weapons :ermm: You´re off course right though, it certainly helps in that way. The LW is Eternal Warrior though, so ID doesn´t matter? Don´t have the book right now, just going by memory so that may be wrong.

[dswanick]

But the wounds are still split (with the +1 in the case of odd numbers), you just put the nastiest ones on the wolf, I never talked about power weapons :ermm: You´re off course right though, it certainly helps in that way. The LW is Eternal Warrior though, so ID doesn´t matter? Don´t have the book right now, just going by memory so that may be wrong.

True enough on the E.W./I.D. - I was just throwing out the laundry list of possible wound types one wants to allocate to an expendable meat-shield. :huh:

[Stormshadow]

I don’t have the codex on me, so i do not know if it is legal. But what happens if a model with a bike gets a wolf. Will that wolf move 12” and assault 6”? will it run flat out?

[DanPesci]

off the top of my head....beast and cavalry dont move 12". They move 6", then can run D6 inches in the shooting phase. As cavalry and beasts have the fleet rule, they can then also charge after running.

 

I know that cavalry then have an assault range of 12 inches...and i think this is the same for beasts.

 

So i would have thought that a bike model with wolves as wargear can ONLY move 6" in the movement phase. Which is why you probably dont see many bikers with wolves.

[Stormbrow II]

Grey Mage got it in one. Skoll is wrong.

 

And yes, that youtube vid had an illegal assault move.

 

But what happens if a model with a bike gets a wolf. Will that wolf move 12” and assault 6”? will it run flat out?

As many have said earlier, a unit (including ICs) moves at the speed of the slowest model so a Biker with a Wolf will move 6" in the movement phase until the wolf is dead. The unit cannot Fleet (as Bikes don't have this rule) and they assault 6" as the Biker is limited to moving 6" in the assault phase so the wolf is slowed.

 

It makes little sense to attach a Wolf to a Biker as both have their mobility restricted.

[Stormshadow]

off the top of my head....beast and cavalry dont move 12". They move 6", then can run D6 inches in the shooting phase. As cavalry and beasts have the fleet rule, they can then also charge after running.

 

I know that cavalry then have an assault range of 12 inches...and i think this is the same for beasts.

 

So i would have thought that a bike model with wolves as wargear can ONLY move 6" in the movement phase. Which is why you probably dont see many bikers with wolves.

 

You are correct about the movement of beast and cavalry. The reason for my question is all this talk about “wargear” and how the wargear moves as the character that purchased it. It seems strange that a wolf would be able to run 24” alongside a bike, I was only wondering if this special bit of “wargear” would somehow be “carried” by the character.

[DanPesci]

I would let you do it if yuo modelled an attack bike with the wolf in the sidecar :P

 

http://images2.webpark.ru/uploads54/100423/Dogs_10.jpg

 

not sure that bike would give you +1 toughness though ;)

[Grimtooth]

Man the guy in the video acknowledges that he is wrong and then goes on to say that he will argue the point until an opponent concedes to him cheating.

 

Man the guy in the video acknowledges that he is wrong and then goes on to say that he will argue the point until an opponent concedes to him cheating.

[The Rose Princes]

This was addressed back in the old 4th edition FAQ (might have been 3rd... old rules get all muddled up); models bought as wargear (they were called "Followers" then), such as fenrisian wolves, tech marine servitors, librarian familiars and the old chaos codex's chaos hounds & daemon spawn, moved at whatever speed the character who had purchased them moved at and did not hinder them in any way. so it was normal for a librarian to be on bike tooling around the board at 18" a turn while the familiar on foot chased after him with like a nanny.

 

 

sadly, 5th has removed most followers from the equation, so the ruling was no longer needed to be kept up; then other codecies came around adding the idea of followers back, but lacking the rules to make it clear. as it stands, there is currently no FAQ for it because no one was doing it. now that it's come back up again, we'll have to start asking this questions to be cleared up again.... and just in time for 6th edition, too!

[Grimtooth]

This was addressed back in the old 4th edition FAQ (might have been 3rd... old rules get all muddled up); models bought as wargear (they were called "Followers" then), such as fenrisian wolves, tech marine servitors, librarian familiars and the old chaos codex's chaos hounds & daemon spawn, moved at whatever speed the character who had purchased them moved at and did not hinder them in any way. so it was normal for a librarian to be on bike tooling around the board at 18" a turn while the familiar on foot chased after him with like a nanny.

 

 

sadly, 5th has removed most followers from the equation, so the ruling was no longer needed to be kept up; then other codecies came around adding the idea of followers back, but lacking the rules to make it clear. as it stands, there is currently no FAQ for it because no one was doing it. now that it's come back up again, we'll have to start asking this questions to be cleared up again.... and just in time for 6th edition, too!

 

It doesn't need to be cleared up as it is addressed in the movement and assault sections of the BRB.