thor1234 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 having been geared up for the new TWC sets I have been looking in the forums here to give me a good idea into the army I want to build, one thing I notice is that my fellow brothers are taking fenrisian wolves with their characters for the purpose opf wound allocation, my question is this: how can you allocate wounds to the wolves????? they have a lower T than their boss and the unit he accompanies so unless he rides solo T5 will always be majority so they get wounded first, in combat the FAQ rules that the wolves are seperate unit from the lord and are attacked seperatley, so did i miss something??? thanks in advance Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248153-twl-fenrisian-doggies/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The wound allocation would apply if the TWL split from the unit to run solo. Might even be a smart tactic if you want the TWL or the TWC pack to take fire for the other if you know they'll be fired on while running toward the defense line, then join back up just before the charge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248153-twl-fenrisian-doggies/#findComment-3005731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenric Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I don't play often enough these days sadly to be a 100% rule freak but can't you if you get shot enough to have to put a hit on your lord put that wound on a dog instead? Hmm must have missed that faq then :/ So if your TWL runs alone he can't put shooting attacks on his wolves like a tyrant with guards? If they can't be there for protection i really don't see alot of use for them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248153-twl-fenrisian-doggies/#findComment-3005918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonMerrick Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I was under the impression that if the lord is running solo with his two wolves and he is shot he can take the save against (and wound) the wolf as the wolves are the majority. Once the first wolf is dead, the second wound from shooting can be given the wolf as there is no majority. The issue comes in when The lord is charging with TWC or another unit. You shouldn't (if I read this correctly) be able to take a wound to a wargear wolf in a squad that consists of a TWL and three TWC as the thunderwolves are the majority of the unit. Once you reach combat though the wolves are treated as separate targets by your opponent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248153-twl-fenrisian-doggies/#findComment-3005935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacton Qruze Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 You can take a wound on a FW anytime you want during shooting. Majority toughness (5) still prevails, but then any wounds can be allocated against a FW as if it were a member of the unit. Just because the majority toughness is higher doesn't mean a weaker creature can't be damaged. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248153-twl-fenrisian-doggies/#findComment-3005948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiOfRuss Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The FW companions are good for allocating shots to as you charge in, but if they survive to CC - that's when they're really worth it. Remember that the FAQ says they count as a separate unit and that's they key, the second part is that a model in CC must attack the unit he is in Base Contact with. Now, this requires some very precise positioning prior to assault move, and attention to detail when you do assault, so be careful. What you do is place your models and your IC Lord such that the Lord charges in on a "regular" guy in your target unit, especially someone with a lower Init. Position your FW so that they move into base contact with the "scariest" models in the opposing unit - Drago, and/or Paladin with Halberd are prime targets. With wound-allocated Paladins you generally only see 1 or 2 Halberds, so this works well in that case. The models in base contact with only the FW must attack the FW "unit." So you take that Halberd or scary character and the 1 or 2 Wolves "soaks" all their attacks for that round, while your Lord slices up all the regular troopers. Hopefully that's enough to make your target break, or take Fearless Wounds, but if not then you've probably eliminated most of the squad and then you can focus all your attacks on those prime targets (like Drago) with your Lord and any TWC that are in the squad as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248153-twl-fenrisian-doggies/#findComment-3006066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 You can take a wound on a FW anytime you want during shooting. Majority toughness (5) still prevails, but then any wounds can be allocated against a FW as if it were a member of the unit. Just because the majority toughness is higher doesn't mean a weaker creature can't be damaged. This is correct. Majority Toughness only affects the S vs. T roll for the attack, it has nothing to do with how you allocate wounds. Just like any mixed or non-mixed unit, the owning player decides who to allocate wounding hits to, and then that specific model takes appropriate saves, if they have one and the weapon doesn't remove the save. Fenrisian Wolves are nice to have to allocate Melta and Lascannon shots to, so you don't have to worry about flubbing your Invulnerable Save and getting your 250+ point Wolf Lord evaporated (presuming he doesn' already have Saga of the Bear, anyway). Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248153-twl-fenrisian-doggies/#findComment-3006081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonMerrick Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Do wolves taken as wargear count towards the unit taking 25% casualties for morale tests? So would a solo character with two wolves have to take a morale check if one of the wolves takes a wound and is killed, or are they just wargear? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248153-twl-fenrisian-doggies/#findComment-3006147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacton Qruze Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Even though they are bought as wargear, they add to the overall unit strength. I'd say that yes, they count toward casualties for morale purposes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248153-twl-fenrisian-doggies/#findComment-3006175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor1234 Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Even though they are bought as wargear, they add to the overall unit strength. I'd say that yes, they count toward casualties for morale purposes. yup that sounds right and add to the equation, the wolves (2 of them) are T4 the WL(1 of him) is T5, 2 VS 1 means youve just lowered the T of your lord for the shots at hand, wasting one of the perks of taking the mount, not for ID but the actual wounds.... to sum up he has two wolves and is running solo, a squad of marines fire at him , the bolters now only require 4's to wound instead of 5's, (as the FW T4 is used) if even one wolf dies, the lord takes a morale test and has a chance to runaway...... if the lord was actualy running solo IE no dogs he would have taken far less wounding hits and would have no chance of running since hes alone........... now put him and his dogs in a unit of TWC, now you cannot allocate any wounds to the wolves as the unit (lets say 3 TWC +TWL) is now majority T (5) you would have to allocate 4 wounds onto those guys first before you even get to the wolves (who'll probably die) who will count towards 25% morale test, so I ask who in there right mind would ever take a wolf for a thunderwolf character? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248153-twl-fenrisian-doggies/#findComment-3006558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rose Princes Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 **Devil's Advocate** Now what if you had a Lord lord with 2 wolves join an Iron Priest with 4 cyberwolves and three servitors.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248153-twl-fenrisian-doggies/#findComment-3006563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 **Devil's Advocate**Now what if you had a Lord lord with 2 wolves join an Iron Priest with 4 cyberwolves and three servitors.... Lord - T5 Wolves - T4 X2 Priest - T4 Cyberwolves - T5 X4 Servitors - T3 X3 Total - (3)T3, (3)T4, (4)T5 The answer to your general question depends on the country you're playing in, I believe. In some contries "majority" is used for the largest group, while in others "majority" means 50% + 1 instance. In both cases, however, the answer to your specific question would be T5. Either the group with the most members is T5 or none of the groups is >50% of the total thus you use the highest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248153-twl-fenrisian-doggies/#findComment-3006581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonMerrick Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 This is where I get confused as I get back into this cause I seem to get conflicting info. Wolves taken as wargear are ablative wounds nothing more as told to me at a local store. If I take two wolves with my character and put him in a squad then according to the players I watched, the wolves take the first two wounds the squad takes. They use toughness 5 to test as that is the majority of the unit, then as casualties the player took a wolf away as the first wound to the squad. As for the wolf as wargear, this same group treated them as ablative wounds. HisL Lone wolf was walking along and got hit and he failed an armor save, he removed the wolf first. I'm confused at this because this is how they played, and the current white dwarf has Phil Kelly explaining how he takes his TWL with wolves purely for ablative wounds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248153-twl-fenrisian-doggies/#findComment-3006621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 This is where I get confused as I get back into this cause I seem to get conflicting info. Wolves taken as wargear are ablative wounds nothing more as told to me at a local store. If I take two wolves with my character and put him in a squad then according to the players I watched, the wolves take the first two wounds the squad takes. They use toughness 5 to test as that is the majority of the unit, then as casualties the player took a wolf away as the first wound to the squad. As for the wolf as wargear, this same group treated them as ablative wounds. HisL Lone wolf was walking along and got hit and he failed an armor save, he removed the wolf first. I'm confused at this because this is how they played, and the current white dwarf has Phil Kelly explaining how he takes his TWL with wolves purely for ablative wounds. Then you may want to suggest to them that they re-read the rules for Fen./Cyber Wolves on C:SW, Pgs.31 & 62 and the Space Wolves FAQ Q&As regarding Fen.Wolves. There is even one where it quite specifically tells you that an IC w/ Fen.Wolves joined to a Blood Claw squad consists of three distinct units for Close Combat attack allocation. Also, point out to them the stat line which includes a T and a Save value. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248153-twl-fenrisian-doggies/#findComment-3006668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 As for the wolf as wargear, this same group treated them as ablative wounds. HisL Lone wolf was walking along and got hit and he failed an armor save, he removed the wolf first. That isn"t how it works and if someone did that, they made an illegal move. If a Lone Wolf + wolf wargear gets hit and wounded, the SW distributes the wounds evenly between himself and the fen wolf before rolling to save. If he rolls to save using his lone wolf's profile, then the lone wolf must take the wound. If he wants any potential unsaved wounds to go to the wolf, then he must use the wolf's profile to make the saves. The wolf cannot benefit from another model's stormshield, for example. The nice thing about having fen wolves is you can allocate all odd numbered wounds (1,3,5 etc) to the wolf, having it receive the bulk of damage, thereby having it become an ablative wound for the character. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248153-twl-fenrisian-doggies/#findComment-3006669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor1234 Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 i casn see the wolves working on a lone wolf, as they are all T4 in theory your lone wolf must take three wounding hits with the third forcing one save on him while his wolves take one for team so to speak, this even works for a lord on foot as again they are all T4 so you can allocate the wounds to the wolves before allocating them to the lord or his squad it only seems to become a waste with the Thunder lord......... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248153-twl-fenrisian-doggies/#findComment-3006689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Thunder Wolves are a fantastic assualt unit, as generally they will be lurking in range of the Grey Hunters it rides with. You probably don't even need Caius with them, since even a moderatively tooled wolf lord is quite adiquit to handle himself on the battlefield but more importently grant the +2 to leadership that they need. Yeah, VonMerrick, they're doing it wrong. No Wolf Lord would go without FenWolves if they worked like that. They can still be handy as cannon fodder, but you still have to follow all of the rules for attacks against a complex unit. This includes using majority Toughness to determine whether hits cause wounds, using Wound Allocation to distribute wounding hits to differently equipped groups, and each model/group makes its own Saves. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248153-twl-fenrisian-doggies/#findComment-3006736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonMerrick Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Thanks. I appreciate the clarification. I see where they went wrong now and it makes sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248153-twl-fenrisian-doggies/#findComment-3006879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 The FW companions are good for allocating shots to as you charge in, but if they survive to CC - that's when they're really worth it. Remember that the FAQ says they count as a separate unit and that's they key, the second part is that a model in CC must attack the unit he is in Base Contact with. Now, this requires some very precise positioning prior to assault move, and attention to detail when you do assault, so be careful. What you do is place your models and your IC Lord such that the Lord charges in on a "regular" guy in your target unit, especially someone with a lower Init. Position your FW so that they move into base contact with the "scariest" models in the opposing unit - Drago, and/or Paladin with Halberd are prime targets. With wound-allocated Paladins you generally only see 1 or 2 Halberds, so this works well in that case. The models in base contact with only the FW must attack the FW "unit." So you take that Halberd or scary character and the 1 or 2 Wolves "soaks" all their attacks for that round, while your Lord slices up all the regular troopers. Hopefully that's enough to make your target break, or take Fearless Wounds, but if not then you've probably eliminated most of the squad and then you can focus all your attacks on those prime targets (like Drago) with your Lord and any TWC that are in the squad as well. These are the tactics i have been using they have done wonders for me. Destroyed 2dreadnought, 2 dreadknights ,strike squad and purifer squad last game. As a note try it can be worthwhile to get the wolves into b2b with as many extra models as possible in addition to the dangerous ones so you get them to waste as many wounds on the wolves as possible ie 5 wounds on 2 models Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248153-twl-fenrisian-doggies/#findComment-3007758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.