storm bolters on vehicles

[Ikken]

so i am wondering if anyone adds storm bolters to their tanks and vehicles?

with st4 they are defensive and can be fired after moving at cruising speed which should be handy .

I am thinking of running them on a couple predator tanks .

It is not an upgrade i see taken often , and i don't take it usually myself . I was just wondering what others opinions / experiences were .

[maverik_girl]

Why not? Mav and I take them all the time, the more dakka the better! what good is an immobilized rhino if it's just a sitting duck? at least with a storm bolter, it can bite back. That's my logic at least... people have different opinions on the matter. It's all about spending your points and using them wisely.

[Grey Mage]

I almost never take an extra storm bolter on a vehicle if Im palying anything other than the smallest of games- and even then its fairly rare. I just find the points are often better used elsewhere and I run my armies very lean.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

I once paid 20 points for 2 Storm Bolters on my Baal Predators. I'll put emphasis on the word 'once'. Like Grey Mage said, I can always find better uses for those ten points (Wolf Standard, two melta guns, plasma gun).

 

Plus I found a way to turn my Baal Predators into SW Predators!! :)

 

End of Line

[Khine]

I once paid 20 points for 2 Storm Bolters on my Baal Predators. I'll put emphasis on the word 'once'. Like Grey Mage said, I can always find better uses for those ten points (Wolf Standard, two melta guns, plasma gun).

 

Plus I found a way to turn my Baal Predators into SW Predators!! ;)

 

End of Line

 

Baal Predator is really just another name for SW Razorback :)

[Myxx]

I use them frequently. In addition to the extra str4 shots, out gives an extra weapon destroyed slot.

[JamesI]

I generally don't use them. If I have points left over, perhaps, but there are usually better ways to spend the points.

[maverik_girl]

yes, agreed on what everyone said. Apologies, I should have been more clear. I play small games, 1000pts - 1500pts. I max out on troop options/wargear and whatever is left over, the storm bolter is applied.

 

Now my question is.... what about hunter killer missile or extra armour? on larger games? are they worth it? I haven't tried them myself.

[Valerian]

As for HK Missiles, I have never bought one in any edition of the game. A one shot, S8 weapon just isn't worth those points when we've got so many cheaper alternatives for anti-tank duty.

 

As for extra armour, I'd only put it on a transport (or maybe a Dreadnought) that absolutely must remain mobile; so, no for Rhinos, but yes for Land Raider with Ragnar with assault force.

 

Valerian

 

Ps, I don't put Storm Bolters on vehicles either; too expensive for what you get.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

Baal Predator is really just another name for SW Razorback :)

 

LOL!! It actually became a Predator.

 

.... what about hunter killer missile or extra armour? on larger games? are they worth it? I haven't tried them myself.

 

I only occasionally take extra armor on my dreads, and I have never once to this date taken HKM.

 

End of Line

[Khine]

As for HK Missiles, I have never bought one in any edition of the game. A one shot, S8 weapon just isn't worth those points when we've got so many cheaper alternatives for anti-tank duty.

 

I would disagree with you on this point if i have the spare points to use. Unlimited ranged krak missile that doesn't need LoS, it can be incredibly useful taking out transports that are trying to sneak up the field using cover. Since it comes down from above it hits the side armour and doesn't allow for cover saves unless its actually IN cover and not just behind.

 

Though, my store/friends/gaming community and myself could just be completely playing it wrong.

[Logan230]

I dont buy extra storm bolters or HKM missiles for a reason very similar to GMs; i play lean units. Now Extra Armor I find to be a completely different beast. EA goes on every thing in my army that needs to move, so Rhinos, Dreadnoughts, Land Raiders. Predators do not get them because my Predators are stationary 99% of the time. I also am of the opinion that Dreadnoughts MUST have EA otherwise bad things can happen to them.

[Grey Mage]

I can see the value in an HK missile- but I have never once killed anything with them, and gave up a year into fifth edition. Your mileage may vary, but I dont recommend them.

 

As for extra armor- I always take it on Dreads, without question. If I cant find the points for that simple upgrade I wont even consider taking a dread, its that important.

 

On other vehicles? It varies. If the local Tau players are being active then yes, Ill take it on rhinos everywhere. The new Necrons make me consider it. Otherwise I dont bother on transports, other than landraiders. Rarely Ill take it when my vindicators meet the field, but usually I dont.

[Nadir]

Sometimes I've taken 4 rhinos each with HK on top. It is great against mech. inf. armies, when you need more heavy shoots in first turns of combat. Extra storm bolter? Rarely...

[Valerian]

As for HK Missiles, I have never bought one in any edition of the game. A one shot, S8 weapon just isn't worth those points when we've got so many cheaper alternatives for anti-tank duty.

 

I would disagree with you on this point if i have the spare points to use. Unlimited ranged krak missile that doesn't need LoS, it can be incredibly useful taking out transports that are trying to sneak up the field using cover. Since it comes down from above it hits the side armour and doesn't allow for cover saves unless its actually IN cover and not just behind.

 

Though, my store/friends/gaming community and myself could just be completely playing it wrong.

 

Wow, if those were the actual rules for the HK Missile, then I would buy them, too. Where did you get the "doesn't need LOS," and the "hits the side armour," bits from? Also, vehicles don't get cover saves, they are either Obscured, or they are not. Why don't you check out page 63 of your codex? I'm sure it will prove to be enlightening.

 

Valerian

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I never take an extra storm bolter or HK missiles. the rhino is just not tough enough to get the worth out of them in my opinion.

 

I always take extra armor. the rhino needs to move, plan and simple. if its not moving its worthless to me. Dreads and Land Raiders also get the same treatment.

 

WLK

[Khine]

As for HK Missiles, I have never bought one in any edition of the game. A one shot, S8 weapon just isn't worth those points when we've got so many cheaper alternatives for anti-tank duty.

 

I would disagree with you on this point if i have the spare points to use. Unlimited ranged krak missile that doesn't need LoS, it can be incredibly useful taking out transports that are trying to sneak up the field using cover. Since it comes down from above it hits the side armour and doesn't allow for cover saves unless its actually IN cover and not just behind.

 

Though, my store/friends/gaming community and myself could just be completely playing it wrong.

 

Wow, if those were the actual rules for the HK Missile, then I would buy them, too. Where did you get the "doesn't need LOS," and the "hits the side armour," bits from? Also, vehicles don't get cover saves, they are either Obscured, or they are not. Why don't you check out page 63 of your codex? I'm sure it will prove to be enlightening.

 

Valerian

 

i think my immediate meta always considered it to be a barrage type weapon as we would constantly use the scatter dice to see if it hit or not (no we didn't use templates). Hence where we got the "doesn't need LOS" and " hits side armour".

with the cover save comment, i meant if it was otherwise obscured then it wouldn't get the save because of the line above's train of thought.

 

i concede that i have probably been misinformed by the homerules of my meta and will seek to correct my mistake.

[Valerian]

Yeah, better check the rules and fix your buddies; it is exactly like a one-shot missile launched, but with unlimited range, instead of 48".

[maverik_girl]

thank you all for your input, some interesting ideologies here.

[Matt D]

i love them. i think of it this way. a razorback with one gun at strength 5 and three shots with a transport capacity of 6 or a rhino with two guns at strength 4 and four shots with a transport capacity of 10. i am always shooting at infantry with either so the extra strength does not matter that much but 4 x 4 shots into my buddies grey knight termies killed 3. also he hates them because he tends to get a lot of weapon destroyed rolls so it takes even longer to kill my armor. drives him up the walls B)

[fireballoflight]

As for extra armour, I'd only put it on a transport (or maybe a Dreadnought).

.... what about hunter killer missile or extra armour? on larger games? are they worth it? I haven't tried them myself.

 

I only occasionally take extra armor on my dreads,

EA goes on every thing in my army that needs to move, so Rhinos, Dreadnoughts... I also am of the opinion that Dreadnoughts MUST have EA otherwise bad things can happen to them.

As for extra armor- I always take it on Dreads, without question

I always take extra armor. the rhino needs to move, plan and simple. if its not moving its worthless to me. Dreads and Land Raiders also get the same treatment.

 

Why do you guys put extra armour on dreads? Surely a shaken result means the same to a Space Wolf dread, because they don't want to be in combat anyway. They both stop you from shooting, and there are few situations I can think of where a dread wants to be in combat. Please enlighten me. EDIT: OMG huge spam. Moved the quotes closer

[Grey Mage]

Because I disagree with you- my dreadnoughts quite enjoy being in the assault.

 

AV 12 fronts are actually pretty good at protecting them against most infantry- if my Rune Priest is doing his job its good even against the new GKs- and I love assaulting vehicles with them. Also, the EA means that when Im in the assault Ill never lose an attack from a stunned result, wich is helpful.

 

Then of course theres the fact that he only moves 6" a turn, wich means that any turn he spends unmoving can make or break his viability for the rest of the game. If instead his inability to shoot just means I move 6+d6" for the turn... well, thats a change in tactics, not a loss of anything useful for the entire turn.

 

And dreads are expensive enough already that doubling their utility over the course of a game is quite worth it for 15pts IMHO.

 

What army do you run- Or run against?- that you feel dreadnoughts shouldnt be assaulting?

[Simo429]

Depends what the purpose of your dreadnought is and what else you've got in your army.

 

If you are running max long fangs with 1 or 2 riflemans then I wouldnt' bother because I think there are far more viable targets for a opponent than a rifleman dread, if however you have melta toting dreads having him able to shoot at the right time is vital and the extra armour can be of use. Even still I think its too expensive, the beauty of the dread for me is that it is a cost effective muti purpose unit found in a FOC slot that I don't overly use. Start adding extras on that and I'd start to look at other options .such as lone wolves or scouts.

[Karack Blackstone]

To add my opinion to the Dreadnought discussion, the following is a very effective pairing: DCCW, EA. Because some Dread's don't have the DCCW after weapon replacement options then it makes sense to not take EA with them. However, any Dread with a DCCW practically needs EA to get the most out of them. Plus grenades can never hit on less than 6's with EA. It's all in the main book in the walkers section.

 

As for SB's on vehicles, I've found squeezing in the extra weapon slot isn't really something I'm able to do that often, as the big guns are what is targeted first in my area. The option of having an extra weapon towards immobilized and destroyed stacking is not that convenient when those points can be stacked up and used elsewhere, for me at least. I completely understand others liking them; it's a matter of what works for you and for your army. There's no reason to take them for some, and every reason to for others. Figuring that out for oneself is the secret.

[Grey Mage]

Karack- grenades always hit on 6's vs walkers unless they are immobilized- doesnt matter if they have EA or not.