SnorriSnorrison Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 The cover art looks exceptionally good, I must say! Our codex would have deserved a cover that looks as great as this! ^_^ For the book itself, I would not fear. I think it was on this forum that I read an statement from A-D-B where he had a conversation with Swallow and mentioned his interpretation of BA in his novels, and seemingly, Swallow was aware about the increasing dissatisfaction among the readers...I don't have the actual words from A-D-B here to quote, for which I apologise. Without too much interpretation, it seems like Swallow knows what the readers are angry about in his Blood Angels books and considering that Flight of Eisenstein and others were accepted and enjoyed by the community, it might be not too far fetched to say that he will adjust his writing style when it comes to his new novel Fear to tread. Either that, or he doesn't care at all and continues to write BA novels that leave a bitter taste in our mouths. Which I don't think to be honest. Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrahawk Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I think you guys have definitely hit the nail in the head. I don't think Swallow is bad at writing, but based on his BA series he just doesn't get Blood Angels. That, coupled with the fact that he doesn't have a problem stomping established background to the ground if it suits his needs, really do make the BA series a massive miss for me. I really do hope Bro Snorri is right though and Swallow has taken a different direction to writing Astartes in Fear to Tread. Won't be a day one purchase for me though. I'll read a few reviews from like-minded BA enthuasists, until I'm ready to shell my somewhat-hard-earned cash. Oh, and the cover is cool. :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Carmine Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 The cover art looks exceptionally good, I must say! Our codex would have deserved a cover that looks as great as this! :tu: I would love to see the Black Library cover artists do the next editions codex covers, I imagine they could come up with some amazing ideas. For the book itself, I would not fear. I think it was on this forum that I read an statement from A-D-B where he had a conversation with Swallow and mentioned his interpretation of BA in his novels, and seemingly, Swallow was aware about the increasing dissatisfaction among the readers...I don't have the actual words from A-D-B here to quote, for which I apologise. Without too much interpretation, it seems like Swallow knows what the readers are angry about in his Blood Angels books and considering that Flight of Eisenstein and others were accepted and enjoyed by the community, it might be not too far fetched to say that he will adjust his writing style when it comes to his new novel Fear to tread. Either that, or he doesn't care at all and continues to write BA novels that leave a bitter taste in our mouths. Which I don't think to be honest. Snorri Fingers crossed then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileo Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I don't know about the issue being specific to BA. I remember the Word Bearers in the Deus novels to be quite badly portraited as well, especially their Dark Apostle. Possibly Swallow performs better in the HH environment, were there is less canon and thus more freedom for own creation, than in the more established 40k. It's no excuse tho. Meanwhile, I've been reading the latest red Ultramarines short story from Swallow on hammer & bolter, Rafen meets Astorath - two of the greatest BA characters together in a memorable tale. Pity there's no Kabandha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mullinstron Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I think in EVERY Swallow story Chaos has to punk the BA somehow. It kills me. I really hope this good book. I do like James Swallows writing. I love Nemesis and Flight they are two amazing books. The blood angles books have been epic misses for me. The worst part is I want to love them. I really do. I won’t say he jumps the shark in the BA novels, but he sure does jump a sub from obit in one of them. ~j Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israfel Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Its like you are speaking the words right out of my head. I feel almost the same although I liked Nemesis a bit more than flight. I have read his new short stories for the BA and they are just as bad as the BA books. I think that you really hit the nail on the head when you said swallow does not get the BA. Its like I’m reading emo Ultramarines that cry. There is nothing special or cool about the way he portrays them. It is really very depressing and I am very nervous that he’s going to make this book into another Deuce. My feelings excatly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 in fairness to mr.swallow i think its hard to display a chapter as the blood angels spot on. in essense we ARE a codex chapter, with divergent units and mindset. allthough we have an affinity for jump packs we have no more higher number of assault marines then say the raven guard. the red thirst and the black rage are (from a canon point of vieuw) rare occurances and its quite hard to use those only to define us without making us look like loyalist beserkers :tu: il makr the next bit as spoilers for anyone still interested in reading the books... im not saying that i liked the books particulary. the high number of flaws and lazy story writing in other areas made it a chore to get through but liked the fact that he at least tried. mephiston was displayed as a sheer bad ass at least which somewhat made me smirk :D one other that might make the book abit....blend is that rafen, the stories lead character for all intents and porpuses is a little.....to perfect. to perfect and yet at the same time blend. hes onto the fact that the astartes with the french moustache is the bad guy whilst everyone else is completly missing the fact (or killed off, whilst they make no attempt on his life IIRC ;) ) hes not particulary brilliant tactics wise. hes not a sheer brutal assault marine or venerated veteran whos wisdom sees the chapter through. but rather him beeing in the right place at the right time and not beeing an idiot that does. :huh: hes a sargeant, not noted beeing one IIRC until he suddenly finds himself in control of a squad (unless im mistaken, abit a long time since ive read the book...) yet everyone sees potential in him for no given reason... uh...wut? B) perhaps if rafen's fluff and character was a little more well thought out the books would be better? ooooo and something else. the chapter loses a few companies and suddenly needs the succesor chapters aid to get back on their feet? what the :) lose the few story arcs that make no sense, develop rafen's character more (or make a new main character), and add more parts to the stories that actually make the blood angels blood angels! show people that they struggle with the blood lust. an undeniable hunger that lurks within the soul that makes one do something that opposes what they stand for(red thirst) show that they love to fly. that they have a connection to their spiritual (and in some ways genetical) father (blood angel gene seed, sanguinary priests) show that dispite the fact that they are amongst one of the most able chapters in the imperium there is something inside the blood angels that kills them off, without an outward struggle beeing present. show how these angels can turn into deamons if they are not stopped by their kinsmen (black rage) i think that adding even one of above ideas would make the blood angel stories more blood angel related....instead of their armour beeing just red... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazleuk Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 ive always been of the impression that the Red Thirst was something that all BA have within them and that the method of creation and use of the sarcophagus had a big part in it, similar to the canis helix and the potential of the wolfen for the puppies. (drawing on the obvious vamp werewolf mythologies) This would certainly account for the style of war that the legion is known for during the crusade and later HH. The black rage as everyone has said comes after the fall of Sanguinius. please illuminate me if im wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 ive always been of the impression that the Red Thirst was something that all BA have within them and that the method of creation and use of the sarcophagus had a big part in it, similar to the canis helix and the potential of the wolfen for the puppies. (drawing on the obvious vamp werewolf mythologies) This would certainly account for the style of war that the legion is known for during the crusade and later HH. The black rage as everyone has said comes after the fall of Sanguinius. please illuminate me if im wrong! This is correct. The Blood Angels do all have the flaw and must control it. However, the one of the things the codex speculates on is what causes it. It is believed that it is because they use the Sanguination process still, even though their source for the blood is dead. Therefore, the blood is no longer as pure as it was, or as new as it was. But it was never really said whether they had this problem before his death, and so I don't really have a problem with it as a flaw, so long as he works it in right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCommanderSamirus Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Why does everybody hate the other Blood Angels books from JS. I've read all 4 of them. Is it because it "makes the Blood Angels look stupid for being fooled"? Clearly anybody who thinks that has never read any of the HH series. The entire Imperium was fooled by Horus and the other conspirators, as well as every single loyal legion and their respective primarchs. Thats what Chaos does... it deceives. As I said I've read all 4 of the JS Blood Angels series and my only issues is that chronologically they don't fit well with the established timeline. I personally have every confidence in Mr. Swallow and his abilities to present the Blood Angels at the time of the Heresy and can't wait to read Fear to Tread. -Samirus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 you read all books and dident see glaring holes in the plot? :huh: i think the flaws are to many to list so il keep it, somewhat brief. the main character has no...personality. the characters in the books dont really come off across as blood angels. an inquisitor (who ends up beeing the bad guy, big suprise!) is LEADING a blood angel force* :blink: dante supposedly asks for aid rebuilding his chapter after losing...what, 2 or 3 companies? entire chapters regulary rebuild from losses far heavier then that (in our own codex we have them dropping to 50 active duty marines and coming back out on top!) , fabius bile beeing on site of our chapter planet without say.... any of the fricking librarians nearby noticing his presence? an entire lab overseen by a single sanguinary priest while its noted that the entire priesthood is searching for a cure. and the spear....dont get me started on the spear. why does every other primarch weapon have to be a spear? ^_^ with magic rainbow colours spouting out the other side? the books (specialy the first 2) are filled with cliches and lazy storywriting. i knew the inquisitor would end up beeing the bad guy the second he was reveiled. and every single astartes in the books has the iq of a 3 year old... rafen and his mentor are the only ones who picked up that something is wrong? really? chaos manipulates and deceives. yes that is indeed their thing. but youd expect that the traitor(s) would need to excert some effort to accomplish it... also i find the apparent lack of respect that these marinesi n the novels have for their fellow captains, libarians, sanguinary priests, chaplains etc etc very....off. the blood angels in particular have the highest respect for their headquarters staff. as they, aside from their normal duties also must keep the red thirst and black rage at check and their struggles would be alot tenser then they would be for those of other chapters.... *which in itself is bull****. marines might listen to a request for aid, but relinguish command? highly unlikely. even if they would it, it would be during a crusade or such where entire army groups relinguish command to single individuals.... oh hai, i helped you guys before, could you lend me a full chapter and tell them to listen to me and me alone? k thxbai! :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leksington Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Why does everybody hate the other Blood Angels books from JS. The BA Omnibus: I have no problems ignoring improper handling of fluff if the result is a decent book. However... I could not find a single redeeming quality but could write a dissertation on how bad the BA Omnibus is. From the poor execution of the plot, to the poorly developed themes that ultimately served to get in the way of the story. An infantile commentary of the pitfalls of being manipulated by religious doctrine, fraught with poor pacing and too much filler that didn't advance the plot. And the worst crime of all: it lacked anything resembling an interesting writing style. I'm wondering what did you find to be compelling about it? The Blood Angels Omnibus is easily the worst thing I've read in the past 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCommanderSamirus Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I'm certainly not saying that there aren't issues with the plot and you make some valid points. I do have counter points though: I actually like Rafen's character. He's devoutly loyal to the Emperor and Sanguinius as you would expect from any Asartes, he struggle with the fact that he believes his blood brother is in fact a traitor, he's humble and wants nothing more than to do his duty. Inquisitors do regularly take command over marine strike forces, provided the chapters in question accept. (Apocalypse Rule Book pg.123) The aid that Dante asks for is to take aspirants from the worlds that would normally be reserved for the successor chapters. He determined it would be faster to do this in addition to recruits from Baal so as to rebuild as fast as possible. Its well known that Sanguinius used many weapons one of which at some point was a spear (black banner on pg.68 of Codex: BA) I do admit the Steele being the bad guy was a bit cliche. Also admittedly its been a while since I read the first 2 and don't recall what you mean by lack of respect for captains. Deus Sanguinius and Deus Encarmine were not that great... they were decent but not great... I did however enjoy Red Fury and Black Tide. -Samirus Also having read both Flight of the Eisenstein and Nemesis I know that JS can write good material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 LordCommanderSamirus i dont hate the novels so much as i find it a shame of the missed potential. we have a chapter with a rich history, well written and fleshed out background and many aspects that set them aside from chapter #325. im sure inquisitors "take" command however it would be to accomplish a certain mission where the astartes help him out. if he asked them nicely first. in the book however he uses it more like his personal strike force/honour guard. its highly unlikely that any astartes group outside of the deathwatch xenos hunters would follow an inquisitor around for such a long period of time. they wouldnt do more then humor him for a short while, complete the tasks he asks of them (if honorable and grand enough to warrant their attention) and then bugger off back to the chapter... if im not mistaken there was also a sanguinary priest present who was "officialy" in command (which in itself is strange but ok...) as the captain who was originaly present died or something *shrugs* if im not mistaken the inquisitor took every chance he got to bad mouth the priest and avarage joe marines off and have them reply with "yes sir" :huh: rafen has some character, true. but nothing really blood-angely about it if you understand what i mean. beeing humble, devout and loyal are not what make the blood angels, blood angels... if youd place his character in an ultramarine book he wouldnt really feel all that off :P i dont really recall any particular blood angel traits about him. he doesent favour melee combat, he doesent struggle with the red thirst (which considering the situation is suprising to say the least), hes not mentioned as beeing particulary artistic either (although they were all in a combat situation so i will give you that :D) none of the traits or personality he has strike me as beeing a blood angel. anymore then say a iron hands succesor chapter or something <_< now im not saying that EVERY blood angel is a nut, who only favours melee combat and is makig paintings in his spare time but those are some of the traits that are specialy at home in our chapter. it is mentioned that at a certain point he dons a jump pack that he uses to some skill. but if thats the only trait that blood angels have according to mr swallow then i think he missed a fair few opportunities to show how much he knows about the chapter... on the spear: im sure the primarch had entire caches of weapons. what im wondering though if other novels already had some artifact spear taken from the bad idea hat why copy that? make it a sabre, an axe or bladed gauntlet (sort of like lightning claws) for all i care. all of these weapons require grace (to a certain extend) but can be used for sheer brutal combat as well. its better then simply copy-pasting someones elses badly thought out idea.... (if you dont know why were fussing about this then look up the soulspear from the souldrinker novels...or better yet, heres a link its essentialy a carbon copy of the spear of telesto, except for imperial fist succesors and was thought off before it...) look i tried not to get into much into this topic but let me just summarize my thoughts about this again before the mods melta it...(partly because of me im afraid :ermm: ) if mr.swallow can work out the mentioned suggestion (as thats all that it is at this point, were all assuming the worst...) to a well thought out and well written piece of fluff then im ok with it. for all we know those close to sanguinius are taken up by his bloodlust but it isent a chapter wide thing. sanguinius was known to have a small temper issue when angered and the legions do look up to their primarches :sweat: its just never mentioned before and the black rage comes after his death so uh.... *shrugs* well see what he does with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 For the book itself, I would not fear. I think it was on this forum that I read an statement from A-D-B where he had a conversation with Swallow and mentioned his interpretation of BA in his novels, and seemingly, Swallow was aware about the increasing dissatisfaction among the readers...I don't have the actual words from A-D-B here to quote, for which I apologise. I think it went a little like this: "I reckon I can put your doubts at ease here, with a simple mathematics equation. The Blood Angels + Sanguinius + Signus Prime + Ka'Bandha = Awesome. You have one of the most beloved Legions in the setting, with one of the most-liked primarchs (perhaps even the most-liked primarch overall), betrayed by Horus on a world full of daemons. Sanguinius will show up for the first real time, flying around, fighting a Bloodthirster. Chaos will go up against the freaking Blood Angels, and it will fail. The origins of one of their famously cool and popular gene-seed curses will play out before our eyes. Let me be clear with where I'm going here: The novel could be written by a monkey and it would still be amazing with that storyline. The fact it's written by a guy with a great Horus Heresy track record is just gravy. Jim will nail this one, and nail it hard. No doubt in my mind." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 The novel could be written by a monkey and it would still be amazing with that storyline. The fact it's written by a guy with a great Horus Heresy track record is just gravy. Jim will nail this one, and nail it hard. No doubt in my mind." I love the Blood Angels. Have to say they are one of my favorite legions, and I love Sanguinius. I always get excited whenever he shows up, because I love him. Saying that, I have always been a little concerned about a novel revolved around the Angels. There is this dark shadow looming over the legion, because I can see just how easily someone could potentially mess it up. I don't really trust anyone who is not yourself or Dan with them. But you have put my worries to rest. A little bit. Maybe. On a different note, can we just clone you and make all of you write everything for the Heresy? And Dan too? Please? -Tarvik Teehee. Bullpoo aside, I appreciate the vote of confidence (even in jest) but it's not down to a matter of time. I'd love to write about the Blood Angels. I've asked many, many, many times. People can have certain stuff reserved, by nature of their past work. It's less prevalent than it was, given how many authors work within BL now, but it's still there in places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I think it went a little like this: "I reckon I can put your doubts at ease here, with a simple mathematics equation. The Blood Angels + Sanguinius + Signus Prime + Ka'Bandha = Awesome. You have one of the most beloved Legions in the setting, with one of the most-liked primarchs (perhaps even the most-liked primarch overall), betrayed by Horus on a world full of daemons. Sanguinius will show up for the first real time, flying around, fighting a Bloodthirster. Chaos will go up against the freaking Blood Angels, and it will fail. The origins of one of their famously cool and popular gene-seed curses will play out before our eyes. Let me be clear with where I'm going here: The novel could be written by a monkey and it would still be amazing with that storyline. The fact it's written by a guy with a great Horus Heresy track record is just gravy. Jim will nail this one, and nail it hard. No doubt in my mind." This sounds about right. :o I'd love to write about the Blood Angels. I've asked many, many, many times. People can have certain stuff reserved, by nature of their past work. It's less prevalent than it was, given how many authors work within BL now, but it's still there in places. So...just being curious, would your time allow you to write something unofficial, not in your role as BL author, simply a fan-fic worth a few pages? Not that I'm suggesting anything like that or that I'm hinting towards it, but...you know. :) But anyway, I am glad to hear you give Mr. Swallow a vote of confidence, and your novelist opinion does count in my head. I totally agree. We'll have to wait anyways, but it's good to have something to give us confidence until the novel hits the shelfs. Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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