Assault Marines - how do to use them?

[bebe]

So I've been experimenting with ASM in my BA lists. I currently have a full blood rodeo list at 2000 points but at 1500 the rodeo seems a bit weak. So I'm trying Stelek's teminator death star list. In his tactica he advises that you walk the terminators up the table and that nothing needs to DS in the list.

Now even with FNP ASM are not great at assault depsite their name. So really the best they can do is tie up a squad until the terminators arrive and finish it off. I can spread ut and cover one squad with another but I still need to stay alive moving up table. My six MLs will take down a few threats but I'm

finding it hard to see how this list works at full efficiency. It's fun - yes. I love the ten termies. I'm always worried abut my low number of troops though. So how should you deploy and use ASM in a list like this?

 

 

Librarian, Jump Pack, Sanguine Sword, Fear of the Darkness 125

 

Sanguinary Priest, Jump Pack 75

10 Terminators, 8 TH/SS, 2 LCs 440

 

2x 10x ASM, 2 Melta, PF 470

5 ASM, Plasma, LC/SS 150

 

2x 5 Devastators, 3 ML 240

 

As an aside in my blood rodeo list I DS my terminators behind my oppopnent and use the bikes with FNP to shield my ASM. Of course it is played at more points I always have two priests etc. So it is not really comparable.

Nor does it scale well to 1500 although it is doable I suppose.

[Zealadin]

10 Termies at this points level is a pretty huge proportion of your list..... ASM rely upon weight of attacks to a large extent and you are probably struggling due to only having two full squads.

If your Lib has Rage instead of Fear you should be killing 6 ish marines on the charge with FC, hitting first, and there is about a 30% chance you'll do enough wounds to kill a PF Serg or anything with a single special weapon. You should finish them off in your opponents combat phase, assuming it was a 10 man squad on the charge. If you kill 1 or 2 with MG/Pistols it works even better as long as you don't win combat and get left out to dry, although that can also work if your properly screening the combat with other units.

 

I guess what I am saying is you have a hammer in the list, but the anvil doesn't match the proportion, or visa versa. I'd probably lean towards too many points spent in the Termies.

Also is the third ASM squad that effective? You're gimping your Devs to include it with those upgrades.

 

There was a recent post about how to get a homer onto the table to bring down your Termies on YTTH, although at a larger points level, maybe check that out for inspiration?

[bebe]

It's interesting. I've asked the same question on a few forums and no one seems to like this list much. I could certainly tone down the termies to a seven man squad and fit in a few more ASM. Not sure to what degree it would help although the list would

still be fun. I considered Unleash Rage.

 

To understand Stelek's principle - not that he elaborated much but it's easy enough to figure out. ...

We have three ICs strung out with the terminator squad as one unit. One IC moves 12", the second 10", the third 8" and the seven termies 6". So when we assault we have FNP furious charge and the terminators slingshot forward. Neat. The ASM hide

behind or in cover. Now if I decided to go heavier on ASM the list would like like this ...

 

Librarian, Jump Pack, Sanguine Sword, Unleash Rage 125

Chaplain, Jump Pack, Meltabombs 130

 

2x Sanguinary Priest, Jump Pack 150

7 Terminators, 5 TH/SS, 2 LCs 280

 

2x 10 ASM, 2 Melta, PF 470

10 ASM, Plasma, Flamer, LC/SS 245

 

2x 1 Attack Bikes, Multimelta 100

 

So here we can front the terminators and ASM with a few FNP bikes. Maybe buy ud a turn as you don't really want to ignore the bikes. We stoill have a cc ASM squad and the rock

terminator unit is ten strong with ICS although you end up with the priest in combat. We have a spare for that eventuality. So thirty marines with FNP and seven termies with FNP.

Should be half decent and able to control a few objectives. We lose the ability to combat squad the deathstar but we don't want to anyway and seven terminators with chappie and libbie

will take down almost anything.

 

That is the principle behind the list. Wether I use the first or second list the principle remains the same. The chappie, priest and bikes replace the six MLs. Still we have enough melta at 1500

and TH/SS take down vehicles too.

[Sokhar]

The Terminator Deathstar unit isn't that straightforward to use. Units always have to move at the pace of the slowest model, so you don't get to have the 3 IC's running around with the Terminators and one or more of them jumping up 12" in the movement phase. To activate the "slingshot" maneuver, the ICs have to be part of another unit at the beginning of the turn. The Terminators move up, then the first IC leaves his original unit (in your case, presumably an Assault Squad) and joins at the front of the Terminators and effectively pushing the footprint of the squad 2" forward. Then the second IC jumps just in front of the first IC, and so on.

 

Requires some careful movement, planning, and an opponent being either oblivious or unable to stop the maneuver, for it to actually work. Probably not worth it, in my opinion.

[bebe]

I'm aware of how to move. And yes it is tricky but quite doable with three ASM squads. I've not had a problem positioning yet. The question is whether or not a list like this can compete consistently. At this point I'm experimenting with the various options. I'm not sure if it's worth either but that is how the list was purposed and proposed by Stelek. I had all the models and I'm familiar to an extent on the logistics of the list as I regularly play Blood Rodeo. It looks to have some potential - I'm looking for insightd on how best to deploy and play it against top lists ... IG, DE, SW etc., at the 1500 point level. At 2000 I'm playing my Rodeo.

[Sokhar]

*shrug* Apologies. The way your post was worded gave me the impression that you were having the ICs start with the Terminators before the turn they assault, and then just having them fly ahead while the Terminators run behind. Just making sure that wasn't the case, as that would make the unit more straightforward to use and probably make it seem more effective, while being a fairly reasonable (if mistaken) interpretation of the rules.

[bebe]

No problem at all. If others are reading this it's probably important to detail the mechanics.

[maxybond]

why not rock some Vanguard with Power Weapons or something like that instead of the Termies? you could effectively turn it into a Strong DoA in that case. (might not be what your going for though)

 

that said. on paper the strategy and idea behind your army is really good and would be effective.

[bebe]

The list is designed around a deathstar terminator squad. Vanguardhave no place here - and even in a DoA hybrid list with devs and attack bikes, etc., i'm not a fan of vets. I think there are better units in our dex - honor guard, dca, sang guard. Heroic intervention looks better on paper than in play.