IronDragon66 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I wrote up a really quick basic history and storyline for my chapter......its very rough and i havent read all the horus heresy books so my istory may be a bit off but heres what i got so far..... The Iron Dragons The Iron Drgaons are a chapter founded from the gene-seed of the Salamanders after the massacre on Isstvan 5. Captain Hephaestus of the Salamanders 11th Company is the founder and first Chapter Master of the Iron Dragons. Hephaestus was one of the few survivors of the Isstvan 5 massacre, and was personally chosen by Vulkan and the Emperor to start the Iron Dragons. Vulkan had been knocked unconscious and Hephaestus was able to smuggle him and a few other Salamanders onto an Arvus Lighter. Hephaestus was then able to land his Lighter aboard the Eisenstein before Garro departed. Because of the nature of Hephaestus’ precious cargo Garro and Hephaestus thought it best to keep Vulkan and the escaped Salamanders secreted in a locked up section of the Eisenstein. Garro had his crew lock down a small section that he said had been breached to space. This allowed Hephaestus, and the recuperating Vulkan to travel to Terra in secrecy. When the arrived in orbit around Terra, Hephaestus was able to transport the still unconscious Vulkan to the Emperor. Vulkan had entered a kind of “stasis” coma and required the Emperor to heal him. Vulkan was given special instructions from the Emperor and like Leman Russ he disappeared. Saying he would return at the End of Days. For his bravery and loyalty to Vulkan and the Emperor, the Emperor met with Hephaestus personally. He told Hephaestus that for his duty he would create a small “strike” Company in his image. The Emperor had forseen that his Legions would be split into small companies so created a 1500 strong company for Hephaestus. Ferria: This was the planet given to Hephaestus and the Iron Dragons. Ferria is also a high gravity planet, similar to Nocturne. It is much more stable though. It is a massive planet covered with mountains, valleys, oceans, and thick forests. The mountain ranges contain many volcanoes but they are much more predictable than the ones of Nocturne. Ferria is only populated by the Iron Dragons and the native tribesmen. The Iron Dragons have their fortress monastery of Aetnaeus on a massive island continent. This continent is the most stable of all of the continents on Ferria. Ferria like Nocturne is rich with mineral deposits which are constantly replenished by the tectonic and volcanic activity. There are areas of Ferria that are extremely stable, these are the ones that have deep forests and where most of the tribesmen reside. Like Nocturne the Iron Dragons live with the people of their local tribes. Iron Dragons for some reason maintain most of their memories from before they became Astartes. This “flaw” has been looked at by the Inquisition and every psychic in the Empire. This was a gift that was actually given to the Star Dragons by the Emperor, but is only known by the highest members of the chapter, Vulkan, and the Emperor himself. The tribesmen of Ferria live at a relatively basic level. Even though they live in the same family groups as their Astartes brothers, they honor their Salamander forefathers by living by the old ways. The Iron Dragons have built hundreds of small bases through out Ferria. Most of these bases are simply Thunderhawk landing pads with a few small out buildings that are maintained by local tribesmen. The bases are treated as “shrines” by the local tribesmen. So let me know what you thing....this is what i have so far, i just wrote it up real quick. I love the salamanders but want to do my own chapter as well. Iron Dragon Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248234-my-new-chapter-the-iron-dragons/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I wrote up a really quick basic history and storyline for my chapter......its very rough and i havent read all the horus heresy books so my istory may be a bit off but heres what i got so far..... Let me stop you there, brother (hail and welcome, btw). You'll need to read a little more than just the Horus Heresy books to get a grounding in 40k, considering the Horus Heresy was in the 31st millenium. Might I suggest checking out Lexicanum for more details on Space Marines, Chapters and Foundings? :D The Iron Dragons The Iron Drgaons are a chapter founded from the gene-seed of the Salamanders after the massacre on Isstvan 5. Captain Hephaestus of the Salamanders 11th Company is the founder and first Chapter Master of the Iron Dragons. Hephaestus was one of the few survivors of the Isstvan 5 massacre, and was personally chosen by Vulkan and the Emperor to start the Iron Dragons. Vulkan had been knocked unconscious and Hephaestus was able to smuggle him and a few other Salamanders onto an Arvus Lighter. Hephaestus was then able to land his Lighter aboard the Eisenstein before Garro departed. Because of the nature of Hephaestus’ precious cargo Garro and Hephaestus thought it best to keep Vulkan and the escaped Salamanders secreted in a locked up section of the Eisenstein. Garro had his crew lock down a small section that he said had been breached to space. This allowed Hephaestus, and the recuperating Vulkan to travel to Terra in secrecy. When the arrived in orbit around Terra, Hephaestus was able to transport the still unconscious Vulkan to the Emperor. Vulkan had entered a kind of “stasis” coma and required the Emperor to heal him. Vulkan was given special instructions from the Emperor and like Leman Russ he disappeared. Saying he would return at the End of Days. For his bravery and loyalty to Vulkan and the Emperor, the Emperor met with Hephaestus personally. He told Hephaestus that for his duty he would create a small “strike” Company in his image. The Emperor had forseen that his Legions would be split into small companies so created a 1500 strong company for Hephaestus. This entire passage is going to need to be rewritten, I'm afraid. Firstly, you're writing a sequence of events that has yet to be decided by Black Library and will no doubt be entirely different to what you have written here. Second, you have name dropped at least four very major characters from the HH series in a very short space of time. Thirdly, most chapters of the "Second Founding" are spoken for (as are most, if not all, elements from the "First Founding") so the genesis of your chapter (I would humbly advise) would have to come with the "Third Founding", at the least, which isn't until the 32nd millenium (waaay after the Horus Heresy). Ferria: This was the planet given to Hephaestus and the Iron Dragons. Ferria is also a high gravity planet, similar to Nocturne. It is much more stable though. It is a massive planet covered with mountains, valleys, oceans, and thick forests. The mountain ranges contain many volcanoes but they are much more predictable than the ones of Nocturne. Not bad, although I'd warn you away from the it's-X-but-better approach as it's in danger of sounding like you're being lazy with your imagination. You need to consider and elaborate why Ferria is more stable and why the volcanoes are predictable (I'd drop that particular bit though - volcanoes are pretty unpredictable most of the time) Ferria is only populated by the Iron Dragons and the native tribesmen. Not being funny, brother, but this is a redundant statement (that might paint you into a corner later on). The Iron Dragons have their fortress monastery of Aetnaeus on a massive island continent. This continent is the most stable of all of the continents on Ferria. Ferria like Nocturne is rich with mineral deposits which are constantly replenished by the tectonic and volcanic activity. There are areas of Ferria that are extremely stable, these are the ones that have deep forests and where most of the tribesmen reside. Like Nocturne the Iron Dragons live with the people of their local tribes. The two sentences I've highlighted almost directly contradict each other. It is either stable or it has tectonic activity. You cannot have both. If this landmass is the most stable and yet has volcanic and tectonic activity then one would presume the rest of the planet is a mess. I'd suggest dropping the stability statement in favour of the latter sentence. I doubt volcanoes and earthquakes (amongst other disasters) are going to trouble an established space marine chapter. Iron Dragons for some reason maintain most of their memories from before they became Astartes. This “flaw” has been looked at by the Inquisition and every psychic in the Empire. This was a gift that was actually given to the Star Dragons by the Emperor, but is only known by the highest members of the chapter, Vulkan, and the Emperor himself. The obvious answer to the first sentence (from my point of view) would be that they don't hypno-indoctrinate the memories out of the apirants when they join the chapter - which means the first sentence needs rewriting and the rest of that passage is entirely redundant. That way the memories are explained but they aren't strangely mysterious. They didn't need to be. The tribesmen of Ferria live at a relatively basic level. Even though they live in the same family groups as their Astartes brothers, they honor their Salamander forefathers by living by the old ways. The Iron Dragons have built hundreds of small bases through out Ferria. Most of these bases are simply Thunderhawk landing pads with a few small out buildings that are maintained by local tribesmen. The bases are treated as “shrines” by the local tribesmen. I'm fine with this bit. :) So let me know what you thing....this is what i have so far, i just wrote it up real quick. I love the salamanders but want to do my own chapter as well. Iron Dragon Let's not beat about the bush - this needs some proper work on it. I appreciate this was a first attempt so that explains certain mistakes. My advice is to take on board as much as you can from the background (try the links I provided above) and don't be afraid to take another crack at it - you will get better each time, trust me. Edit: Typo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248234-my-new-chapter-the-iron-dragons/#findComment-3006978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 The two sentences I've highlighted almost directly contradict each other. It is either stable or it has tectonic activity. You cannot have both. If this landmass is the most stable and yet has volcanic and tectonic activity then one would presume the rest of the planet is a mess. I'd suggest dropping the stability statement in favour of the latter sentence. I doubt volcanoes and earthquakes (amongst other disasters) are going to trouble an established space marine chapter. To be fair, I don't see that as much of an issue. It's actually a lot like how Fenris is described, with its constantly evolving island networks, excepting that one continent that is "more stable" then the rest, which happens to be the continent the Chapter uses. And after all, saying it's the most stable while still having issues doesn't make the rest of the world a mess. Volcanic and tectonic activity is a permanent feature of planets with tectonic plates, no? It could be the most stable landform in the Imperium, but it'd still suffer from them. It could be that the other continents or islands happen to only appear over areas that the tectonic plates are in contact with each other, while the more stable island continent is the landform furthest away from the edges of a tectonic plate. I do, however, agree with your post over-all, which is why I'm only quoting the one part. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248234-my-new-chapter-the-iron-dragons/#findComment-3007430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Hmm, well I did have an ulterior motive to that point, if I am to be honest. I recognised the section as a duplicate of Fenris, in terms of description (which you have mentioned in your reasoning) and I wished to steer away that particular emphasis in this article. I must say I wasn't particularly skilful in that attempt, really, as Fenris is the precedent that cannot be ignored. :confused: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248234-my-new-chapter-the-iron-dragons/#findComment-3007435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I feel bad posting without giving any advice or opinion on the piece, so here's the best thing I think this article needs: An utter scrap and rewrite. It's definitely not a bad idea what you have here, but you went down some paths that ended up being dead-ends. Mostly, Olisredan already brought them up, such as the Founding and name dropping, the "it's X but better" homeworld, and a lot of little details that end up being redundant or unnecessary. I think the best bet here would be to boil it back down to the first kernel of an idea, and write it again as if for the first time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248234-my-new-chapter-the-iron-dragons/#findComment-3007440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDragon66 Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Thanks for the replies guys, this was a fast write, i did use Lexicanum real quick for some name references. I know that i dropped a bunch of big names and did that on purpose.....the whole reason that the emperor would give Hephaestus his own chapter is because he did something so great and amayzing. What I wrote was basically my scribble notes from my notebook, so I know it is not well written. My story is grandiose and a bit unbelievable, but thats what i like about it.....one of those untold/unknown stories in the empire that now one knows about. My planet stuff is a little weak so far......I like Fenris and I like Nocturne so kinda wanted something inbetween. Kind of a Fenris with out as much ice and glaciers, more masive/rugged forests and canyons. Im still not totally sure on my "tectonic" activity, I may just strike it all together. I wanted the Iron Dragons to have access to massive amounts of minerals sense they are great metal workers like their salamander kin. IronDragon66 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248234-my-new-chapter-the-iron-dragons/#findComment-3007524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 My story is grandiose and a bit unbelievable, Without trying to sound like I'm pooh-poohing your efforts, the story was quite unbelievable, brother. To the point where it lacked credibility. There might be a way to circumvent that next time, however, by checking out the Guide to DIYing. It has plenty of advice and guidelines for IA articles and, followed reasonably closely, won't put you wrong. ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248234-my-new-chapter-the-iron-dragons/#findComment-3007820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDragon66 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 I did glance over the DIYing..... - The only "dont" that im violating is the "second founding" rule. In the Salamanders case i think that this is okay to flex. In all the Salamander lore, lexicanum, fluff or what have you, it is conistantly said that it is unknown if the Salamanders have any succesor chapters. Space Wolves say consistantly no, except for the wolf brothers and they back this well. There is no backing in the Salamanders case, their succesor history is left very hazy. This I believe gives wiggle room for my idea. - Yes it is a grandiose idea, but still beliveable, i think, from what i have seen in warhammer novels. Now granted my idea needs alot of polishing, but it is the first back story that i have created that i really like. I have been trying to make my own chapter for years and have never found a story that i thought was possible, and that i liked. Now i need to start reading more of the Horus Heresy novels to polish up my story....I am only on Galaxy in Flames LOL. - I do genuinely appreciate the feedback, and keep it coming. With the realm of fantasy/scifi anything is possible.....no female marines, and no 21st primarchs of course lol :) I wanted to respect the story and history of the heresy and 40k but push it just the same. IronDragon66 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248234-my-new-chapter-the-iron-dragons/#findComment-3008661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew J Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Well you definitely need to get Fulgrim to get caught up to your story because you mix parts of Flight of the Eisenstein and Fulgrim. That will give you a more concrete idea where to start your narrative and how it will fit in with the current HH stories being told. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248234-my-new-chapter-the-iron-dragons/#findComment-3008954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 - The only "dont" that im violating is the "second founding" rule. In the Salamanders case i think that this is okay to flex. In all the Salamander lore, lexicanum, fluff or what have you, it is conistantly said that it is unknown if the Salamanders have any succesor chapters. Actually, the 2nd Founding was specifically ruled out in Salamander's case, but this part of lore is being rewritten so I dunno... ~NightrawenII. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248234-my-new-chapter-the-iron-dragons/#findComment-3008994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDragon66 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 I defenitely need to get caught up with my HH reading, that way i can polish up my story....im stuck on some of the newfantasy books now :) from what i do know the Salamanders, Iron Hands, and Raven Guard were so torn up after Isstvan 5 that they were on the bench for the rest of the Heresy....this in my eyes leaves their storylines wide open for interpretation and fiction fun <_< - Now with their numbers being totally decimated this makes it easy for the Empire to build them up to just chapter strength instead of splitting the Legion. On the other hand it also leaves the door open for possible stories like mine until th Black Library contradicts it with new Space Marine canon. - Im a big fan of sci fi and fantasy movies and novels and thats kinda how i made my story....it seems to me to be a story with a slightly unbelievable grand story with big names in space marine history steping in and playing parts.....just like any good hollywood scifi movie . IronDragon66 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248234-my-new-chapter-the-iron-dragons/#findComment-3009268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I believe that it's mostly a case of it being a social faux pas to drop such heavy names in a DIY for the same reason that it's frowned upon to do a Second, or Space Wolf, Founding, it steps too closely to GW's realm of control. So if you bring it up here, you'll more than likely not hear any praise for it. However, it is always your decision on whether or not to take what we say and implement it. If these are things you're set on having included, then by all means keep it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248234-my-new-chapter-the-iron-dragons/#findComment-3009351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I believe that it's mostly a case of it being a social faux pas to drop such heavy names in a DIY for the same reason that it's frowned upon to do a Second, or Space Wolf, Founding, it steps too closely to GW's realm of control. So if you bring it up here, you'll more than likely not hear any praise for it. However, it is always your decision on whether or not to take what we say and implement it. If these are things you're set on having included, then by all means keep it. I completely agree with the statement above and could not say it any better :) Ludovic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248234-my-new-chapter-the-iron-dragons/#findComment-3009481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDragon66 Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 I understand why other people may say it is "faux pas"......but arent we in the realm of fantasy??? - Ive never understood in all my years of gaming why the scifi/fantasy fans cann get so dead set on there canon. Now i love my 40k history and legend as much as the next nerd, which i proudley declare myself :) But I think we should always be open to new fantastic stories, its what makes our genre so amayzing....its not like im saying the emperor made a deal with an orc war boss to create a chapter modeled onhis genome LOL. - I need to do that reading and polish up my story, and i totally understand why some of you may not like it. But thank you again for the input regardless of your opinion. The varying ideas of our little niche of scifi only make it better. :D - Ill get to reading and writing and post some new stuff if anyone is interested. IronDragon66 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248234-my-new-chapter-the-iron-dragons/#findComment-3009489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 It's not that your Founding idea is bad it is just too convenient, I think it wouldn't really fit in the time line either but you never know :P Get your reading done and show us some new stuff :ermm: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248234-my-new-chapter-the-iron-dragons/#findComment-3009558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDragon66 Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Your right it is super convenient. - I read up some in lexicanum and from what i allready knew it was the easiest way to start with Salamanders and end up with my own chapter. That is a very good point though, just hadnt heard it put that way.....hmmmm, got the ole brain juices flown now, thanks Reyner. IronDragon66 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248234-my-new-chapter-the-iron-dragons/#findComment-3009564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 No problem, I'd say an easier way to start an early Salamanders army would be to wait until the Heresy has ended and until the 3rd Founding rolls round in the 32nd millenium so you don't have people shouting at you. Primarily becuase the Salamanders were so badly mangled at Istvaan V there weren't many left and thus had no successors in the 2nd Founding where all the Legions were broken down into Chapters. So 3rd Founding comes along and it's open season to do whatever you want (within reason of course) if you really want Vulkan in there you can say the Chapter Master keeps receiving visions of him telling him to do something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248234-my-new-chapter-the-iron-dragons/#findComment-3009569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I understand why other people may say it is "faux pas"......but arent we in the realm of fantasy??? - Ive never understood in all my years of gaming why the scifi/fantasy fans cann get so dead set on there canon. Now i love my 40k history and legend as much as the next nerd, which i proudley declare myself :P But I think we should always be open to new fantastic stories, its what makes our genre so amayzing....its not like im saying the emperor made a deal with an orc war boss to create a chapter modeled onhis genome LOL. This will be hard to explain since you don't understand. Hmmm... But I'm goint to bite. The existence of conformists in the hobby is determined by the necessity to have some kind of integrity. Long story short, it's psychological phenomenom and these links aren't here for laughs. :ermm: The people are going disagree with the "breach-of-canon", because it challenges their perception of reality and makes them feel uncertain and uncomfortable. End of professor Nightrawen's lesson of human psychology. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248234-my-new-chapter-the-iron-dragons/#findComment-3009582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDragon66 Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 LOL no problem Nightwrawen....i have a sociology masters so totally understand the psychological/sociological reasonings of why im disrupting people :P i just still think its funny. I just wish people were more open minded. I was not offended at all. Reyner - - Ok, so what your saying is 3rd founding......give the salamanders the time between 2nd and 3rd to rebuild their numbers to a more reasonable number. So that a 3rd founding is more believeable? Let me let my imagination roll on that, id have to re work my creation myth....the visions of Vulkan is a good start though. hmmmmmm thanks for the idea. IronDragon66 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248234-my-new-chapter-the-iron-dragons/#findComment-3010178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 That is precisely what I'm saying. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248234-my-new-chapter-the-iron-dragons/#findComment-3010547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 - Ok, so what your saying is 3rd founding......give the salamanders the time between 2nd and 3rd to rebuild their numbers to a more reasonable number. So that a 3rd founding is more believeable? Yes, that does make it more believable :blush: Good luck! Ludovic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248234-my-new-chapter-the-iron-dragons/#findComment-3010556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew J Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I would jump on the 3rd founding train too. Makes things much easier to deal with Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248234-my-new-chapter-the-iron-dragons/#findComment-3010757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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