Finecast the truth - Please reply

[Orphus]

1 Jetpack Chappie with slight casting error with an edge of a frond exhaust missing but I could just put something over it.

[CarbonCopy]

Still, thanks for the info, man, that's good to know.

 

You're welcome. :)

[Hexenes]

After reading several of these threads, I am absolutely terrified of buying any Failcast models. I have never had these kinds of issues with metal models (other than the occasional bent weapon and the to-be-expected mould lines/flash). It's really disappointing that the quality of Finecast is so inconsistent, especially in light of the hype that GW gave Finecast before it was released. I agree with ComissarStone and Taliostro, that "good enough" and "ok" should really be "unacceptable". You really shouldn't have to spend hours repairing brand new models just to get them to a like-new standard. Booo GW. Boo.

[striker8]

After reading several of these threads, I am absolutely terrified of buying any Failcast models. I have never had these kinds of issues with metal models (other than the occasional bent weapon and the to-be-expected mould lines/flash). It's really disappointing that the quality of Finecast is so inconsistent, especially in light of the hype that GW gave Finecast before it was released. I agree with ComissarStone and Taliostro, that "good enough" and "ok" should really be "unacceptable". You really shouldn't have to spend hours repairing brand new models just to get them to a like-new standard. Booo GW. Boo.

 

See this is what makes me laugh. You claim to be terrified and call it failcast but yet you don;t say if you've had any of these supossedly "failcast" mini's? Have you seen these problems your self or are you just parroting what you feel others want you to think? I have 30+ years experience and have seen worse and better in both resin and metal so I tend to wait till I see a patern first hand before condeming something and I haven't seen much past the initial batch of finecast to even consider condeming it as bad.

 

Claiming you shouldn't have to spend hours repairing things when you haven't done it and are only going on what a few axe grinders online say says more about you and the complainers than the mini's. I'm working on a DE character right now that needed no more work than being brushed to get the flash off of it, the few bubbles I found will fill in with paint or won't be noticeable after a few coats and that has been my experience with everything finecast I've seen in the past month or so. I paint to a high game/display standard and what I consider good enough is ussually way above what most people would ever need for the average painting level.

 

The OP wants people to post the truth, well here it is. Some times people will get a bad cast most of the time they get a good one. The initial run of minis had far more bad casts than now. The people who post about bad casts will always out number the people posting about the good ones they got even though they outnumber the bad because people are more willing to take the time to complain than praise.

 

People really need to stop taking what they read on the internet as proff of anything.

[Venerable Jazzman]

a few axe grinders online

I'm sorry, i don't class myself as an axe-grinder - the Finecast models are just not up to standard.

 

I was filling holes in the Vanguard Vets the other night, and I seriously wondered why I was having to do it - my GW skills suck, which is why I buy models made by professional sculptors.

 

I've been gaming for around 30 years, the majority of my stuff is GW, so I'm fully prepared when I get a new model that there's some flash and mould lines to tidy up.

What I've never had to do is resculpt feet, add missing detail, repair holes in a Marine helmet

I've never had to go through my bits box to find a replacement blade, not for a conversion, but because the original casting is unusable.

I've never had to swap hands because the plasma pistol looked like it had overheated in the blister pack.

 

What pisses me off is that this is not new technology - GW have been casting metal for years, they've been working with resin for years, but trying to apply metal spin-casting techniques to resin has simply not worked. It doesn't have the mass to force its way into the recesses of the mold in the way that hot metal does, which is why ForgeWorld use a pressurised injection system.

 

Swapping models for ones with less and less defects is not Quality Control - you're just relying on the customer to eventually say "Yeah, that's good enough", rather than making a product that's acceptable in the first place. They're mostly getting away with it at the moment because, being gamers, we've got the tools lying around to make repairs ourselves. The point is though, we shouldn't have to be.

 

The Finecast product should be on a par with every other GW product, straight out of the box.

[crazychib]

I have had more problems with the 2 Finecast models I have, than I ever had from 150+ metal models combined.

 

There are some perfect Finecast models out there, it's just finding them that seems to be the problem.

[VonMerrick]

I have several of the new release space wolves models in Finecast. The Wolf Lord , the cyberwolf, and the banner bearer all were shipped to my home and I opened them expecting problems but they arrived perfect. So far I'm three for three in the "good" column.

 

In the past I've had problems with metal minis from GW so Quality control is nothing new just because its Finecast. I recently opened a sealed box of metal sternguard and all the bolter straps were malformed and were in two pieces with rounded edges as if not enough metal was in the mold and the straps never formed beyound about a quarter way on each side. However people tend to look back fondly on the past when "new" isn't working for them.

 

There is always a silent majority, why post something as a statement if you received an item exactly as advertised? The loudest group are often those who did not get what they feel they paid for. They are entitled to that and should be compensated. However every person who opens a model doesn't immediatley go to the internet to post how pleased they are to get a correct model.

[Doghouse]

I've bought somewhere in the region of thirty plus models now and only had issues with my Raptors. One of them had a malformed head on one side and couple of the others had a chalky consistency to them.

 

Other than that mine have been exceptional casts and have no problems buying them other than I wish they'd expand the range.

[Montuhotep]

Some input from someone who knows more about casting than I do, please: does the quality of a mould deteriorate over time? Because some of them (Abbaddon, Huron etc) are apparently the same ones used for their metal contempories - which is sensible. I'm just wondering if that's a factor?

 

Of course, what we don't see are the number of casts even GW think are unacceptably bad.

[Hyaenidae]

Hell, I say we start flooding their Flikr photo pool with pics of severe miscasts and atrocious mold-slips. Maybe someone will pay attention eventually.

 

Listen, I have no grief directed at GW specifically, as I have enjoyed this hobby made by them for well over 14 years now. The price raises? Whatever, they're a buisness, of course they want money. Fluff slaughter? Meh, I'm an old man and things must change, whether I like it or not. I get that. But my finecast experiences, and those of my friends, and those here in the B&C, obviously shows there is a severe issue, despite the fine quality of the material used for Finecast itself. If we don't push for GW to either alter their molding process, or conduct better quality control, then all we're doing in complaining, which in the end, does nothing. Let GW know how you feel, express your concerns, build a petition, give 'em a call and ask what they're really doing to control / fix this issue.

 

If we don't push for a better product, then GW won't produce it.

[Warsmith Aznable]

Hell, I say we start flooding their Flikr photo pool with pics of severe miscasts and atrocious mold-slips. Maybe someone will pay attention eventually.

 

But they already know it's bad. They know it's bad and we know it's bad. They know that we know it's bad. We know that they know it's bad. What would flooding the flickr pool really accomplish outside of hammering away at the willingness of the web team to show up for work?

 

If we don't push for a better product, then GW won't produce it.

 

I don't really know what to do outside of buying competitor's products, returning or demanding replacements for defective merchandise, and refusing to buy anything that we think is crud. Competition should sort out the market. Say that with me three times will throwing a handful of d6 over the shoulder...

[pingo]

For me, 4 Finecast minis, 0 error free

 

- Arjac: nose missing, hammer bent, shield was thin and had holes

- GH with Wolf Standard: banner pole extremely bent (about 45 degrees), axe bent in an S shape

- Cyberwolf: some fangs were missing

- 25th Anniversary mini: end of banner pole bent. Top of banner broken off. This was the only one I didn't send back as I didn't care about the banner anyway.

 

From these few minis, seems to me that where the cast is good, it's good. Where it goes wrong, it's kind of a mess.

 

Interesting thread this, though we do need to keep in mind two things:

 

- each person's individual experience is not a representative sample of Finecast

- posters in this thread are somewhat self-selecting and are not necessarily a representative sample of the quality of Finecast

 

Unfortunately, with the lack of proper random sampling we'll have to make do.

 

Saying that, Wayland Games did randomly sample their stock when Finecast was first released. They did have a report of sorts online at some point with photos but I can't find it. I did find this quote online somewhere, lifted from their report:

 

Unfortunately, a randomly sampled assessment revealed what we feel to be an excessive level of actual and potential flaws that, if reflected across our entire stock of Finecast, could have resulted in unacceptable inconvenience to our customers. Although we will be returning our present stockholding to the manufacturer, please be assured that we remain committed to carrying the Finecast line and will be restocking in due course.

 

For your information, we sampled and then assessed 60 sealed blisters with 30 taken at random from each of two deliveries of stock. Failures were 17 (57%) of 30 and 16 (53%) of 30, making 33 (55%) of 60 in total. While failure doesn’t necessarily denote the blister content as being of less than merchantable quality, for our purposes it does categorise it as having a visible flaw that might be of sufficient concern to a customer such that the item might be returned. Details and images were provided to the manufacturer, with redacted copies of the images appearing below.

[chaptermasters]

I got my Crimson Fist yesterday. The model it's self seems to be perfect. I'm so relieved. The base did have a couple of issues. The helmet has very little detail on one side and there are bits of the stand which are paper thin. I can see light through it. I will go back to customer services. For such a rare model I want it to be right. So I'm both pleased and disappointed at the same time.

[Hexenes]

After reading several of these threads, I am absolutely terrified of buying any Failcast models. I have never had these kinds of issues with metal models (other than the occasional bent weapon and the to-be-expected mould lines/flash). It's really disappointing that the quality of Finecast is so inconsistent, especially in light of the hype that GW gave Finecast before it was released. I agree with ComissarStone and Taliostro, that "good enough" and "ok" should really be "unacceptable". You really shouldn't have to spend hours repairing brand new models just to get them to a like-new standard. Booo GW. Boo.

 

See this is what makes me laugh. You claim to be terrified and call it failcast but yet you don;t say if you've had any of these supossedly "failcast" mini's? Have you seen these problems your self or are you just parroting what you feel others want you to think? I have 30+ years experience and have seen worse and better in both resin and metal so I tend to wait till I see a patern first hand before condeming something and I haven't seen much past the initial batch of finecast to even consider condeming it as bad.

 

Claiming you shouldn't have to spend hours repairing things when you haven't done it and are only going on what a few axe grinders online say says more about you and the complainers than the mini's. I'm working on a DE character right now that needed no more work than being brushed to get the flash off of it, the few bubbles I found will fill in with paint or won't be noticeable after a few coats and that has been my experience with everything finecast I've seen in the past month or so. I paint to a high game/display standard and what I consider good enough is ussually way above what most people would ever need for the average painting level.

 

The OP wants people to post the truth, well here it is. Some times people will get a bad cast most of the time they get a good one. The initial run of minis had far more bad casts than now. The people who post about bad casts will always out number the people posting about the good ones they got even though they outnumber the bad because people are more willing to take the time to complain than praise.

 

People really need to stop taking what they read on the internet as proff of anything.

 

 

Yo, I'm really happy for your DE character, Imma let you finish, but metal made some of the best models of all time! Some of the best models of all time!

[Doghouse]

From these few minis, seems to me that where the cast is good, it's good. Where it goes wrong, it's kind of a mess.

 

I think this seems to be the main problem with the finecast, that and the hype that they gave it upon release. I very much doubt any company could back up the claims made in that first official announcement.

[Subtle Discord]

Some input from someone who knows more about casting than I do, please: does the quality of a mould deteriorate over time? Because some of them (Abbaddon, Huron etc) are apparently the same ones used for their metal contempories - which is sensible. I'm just wondering if that's a factor?

 

Of course, what we don't see are the number of casts even GW think are unacceptably bad.

 

Yes, moulds do deteriorate over time. It is not a general loss of detail over the entire mould, however. What generally happens is tearing and deformation of fine details that are formed by delicate pieces of the actual mould. These will get pull/torn off during the act of de-moulding the resin copy. Once defects like this happen you have little choice but to create a new mould from the original master or one of the cast copies. GW is recasting older masters that were used for metal casting, (nothing wrong with that) but I'm positive they are making new moulds for their resin process. While some process steps can be similar, in general casting in resin is different than metal, and would demand a different type of mould.

 

The defects people are seeing in the Finecast line are due mostly to process and materials, not 'overworking' a mould. I find the quote provided by Wayland Games to be very telling. There is an established retailer doing a random sampling of product, and finding roughly 50% of that sampling to be at least questionable. The only 'axe to grind' that they have is wanting acceptable product to offer their customer.

 

I still feel GW will get their process sorted out, and it appears it's on the way, but it seems there is still room for improvement. As long as they are willing to quickly replace flawed product, it shows that they have scruples.

[Warbringer]

a few axe grinders online

I'm sorry, i don't class myself as an axe-grinder - the Finecast models are just not up to standard.

 

I was filling holes in the Vanguard Vets the other night, and I seriously wondered why I was having to do it - my GW skills suck, which is why I buy models made by professional sculptors.

 

What annoys me about the finecast issues is why are you bothering to fill the holes? Just get in touch with GW and get them to send you a new box of them.

 

I've done it plenty of times and asked them if they need me to return the models and they said no, I did this with sternguard 2 times to get 1 of each the models right and i ended up with 8 models which are fine.

 

Just keep ringing GW and getting new ones sent out otherwise all the armchair moaners who don't tell GW are making it worse for everyone.

 

If GW is having to send out 2 boxes for everyone then they will have to do something about it as cost will start the increase by not telling them we help no one.

[Black Mage 257]

I've personally had no really big problems with finecast but I've heard some bad stories.

 

I've to date bought:

 

2 Boxes of Sternguard Veterans (10 models total)

1 Box of Vanguard Veterans (5 models)

1 Ork Wyrd Boy

1 Ork Warboss

1 Ork Painboy

 

Coming to a total of 18 models, I personally was only disappointed with 3 of them, these were 3 of the Sternguard and they were all in the same box.

 

One of the sternguard had one of the almost tabard like bits of cloths across the groin area, which was flimsy and had several small holes in it, but this was easily converted to look like battle damage.

 

The other has a Bolter with a strap, but the strap stops half way and there is nothing near the barrel of the bolter, so I have added a bit of green stuff to where the strap attaches to the rear of the bolter to turn it into a purity seal.

 

Finally one of the sternguard is pointing with his right hand (hand not holding bolter) and the finger was 2-3 times bigger than it should have been, I initially thought this was just flash (the excess you usually get with sprue) but as I cut it away I found nothing resembling a finger. This was not as easy to fix in the end I pretty much replaced the whole arm (up to the shoulder pad) with the devestator sergeant pointing arm.

 

As mentioned these were all in the same box and while not devastating defects it was pretty disappointing, the store I bought them from offered to give me a new box, but at the time they didn't have any more in stock and I was really wanting to get my hands on some sternguard, so in my impatience I took them :D

 

So I'm happy to continue buying finecast products, I admit it can be annoying to find these defects, especially if you have been waiting a while for the models or have been saving for them, but I've always found GW and my local suppliers to be more than willing to replace/refund me, so it's easy for me to say that.

 

In all honesty I tend to find the Forgeworld stuff is a lot worse for defects and problems, and I've had plenty of hassle in some situations getting replacements/refunds.

[Elric the Silvercoat]

a few axe grinders online

I'm sorry, i don't class myself as an axe-grinder - the Finecast models are just not up to standard.

 

I was filling holes in the Vanguard Vets the other night, and I seriously wondered why I was having to do it - my GW skills suck, which is why I buy models made by professional sculptors.

 

What annoys me about the finecast issues is why are you bothering to fill the holes? Just get in touch with GW and get them to send you a new box of them.

 

I've done it plenty of times and asked them if they need me to return the models and they said no, I did this with sternguard 2 times to get 1 of each the models right and i ended up with 8 models which are fine.

 

Just keep ringing GW and getting new ones sent out otherwise all the armchair moaners who don't tell GW are making it worse for everyone.

 

If GW is having to send out 2 boxes for everyone then they will have to do something about it as cost will start the increase by not telling them we help no one.

Just wanted to comment about getting GW to send you new models everytime there is something wrong. If you call to much they will cut you off and they will not replace anymore of your models it doesn't matter if you paid for them, got them as a gift or whatever. They WILL say "We are sorry but you have made to many claims and we can't help you with the problem anymore." It doesn't matter if we keep calling for replaces they will just start saying we are sorry we can't do anything and you knew the risk of buying that product before you got it.

[StrayCatt]

a few axe grinders online

I'm sorry, i don't class myself as an axe-grinder - the Finecast models are just not up to standard.

 

I was filling holes in the Vanguard Vets the other night, and I seriously wondered why I was having to do it - my GW skills suck, which is why I buy models made by professional sculptors.

 

I've been gaming for around 30 years, the majority of my stuff is GW, so I'm fully prepared when I get a new model that there's some flash and mould lines to tidy up.

What I've never had to do is resculpt feet, add missing detail, repair holes in a Marine helmet

I've never had to go through my bits box to find a replacement blade, not for a conversion, but because the original casting is unusable.

I've never had to swap hands because the plasma pistol looked like it had overheated in the blister pack.

See, I have been involved in the GW hobby for the last 25 years, and I Have had to deal with all of these issues, both with lead and pewter. Having lived through the change from lead to pewter, I can recall similar issues amongst hobbiests with the "new and improved" pewter casting methods GW adopted. It took them a bit to adopt to the differences between lead and pewter, and there were some horrible castings to be had.

 

I wil say again, this is primarily a quality control issue, but it also one of experience. As thier casters get more experienced, the quality will come up. Where we have to give GW the credit, is the fact that they will replace the defective components with little issue. This wasn't really the case with the pewter models.

 

What pisses me off is that this is not new technology - GW have been casting metal for years, they've been working with resin for years, but trying to apply metal spin-casting techniques to resin has simply not worked. It doesn't have the mass to force its way into the recesses of the mold in the way that hot metal does, which is why ForgeWorld use a pressurised injection system.

Where are you getting that they are spin casting these?

Swapping models for ones with less and less defects is not Quality Control - you're just relying on the customer to eventually say "Yeah, that's good enough", rather than making a product that's acceptable in the first place. They're mostly getting away with it at the moment because, being gamers, we've got the tools lying around to make repairs ourselves. The point is though, we shouldn't have to be.

 

The Finecast product should be on a par with every other GW product, straight out of the box.

[winterdyne]

Just wanted to comment about getting GW to send you new models everytime there is something wrong. If you call to much they will cut you off and they will not replace anymore of your models it doesn't matter if you paid for them, got them as a gift or whatever. They WILL say "We are sorry but you have made to many claims and we can't help you with the problem anymore." It doesn't matter if we keep calling for replaces they will just start saying we are sorry we can't do anything and you knew the risk of buying that product before you got it.

 

Utterly wrong.

A product offered for sale must be fit for the purpose for which it was purchased. This is a cornerstone of UK consumer rights, and I believe similar principles exist in most other states / countries.

GW are legally obliged to offer a replacement or full refund where a product does not meet this criteria. They may request the return of faulty product*, or that it be taken into store to show that it IS faulty, but I've never had a request to do that in the face of good quality photos.

When going through my Captain Stern review, I was asked to return stuff, and I said OK, but later on, and they still sent me more models out. I eventually took my excess borked ones back.**

 

In short, you can't be legally expected to accept 15 borked figures if you (as a purchaser) are expecting one good one. Or 15,000, or a million. Just one good one, or a full refund.

 

 

*: Not sure, but I think this has to be at their expense, too. Regardless, GW offer (in the UK at least) a freepost returns address. It's no biggy to use the box you get your replacements in to ship them back.

**: No receipt or anything, no tracking of who I was or where the borked pieces had come from. Just shoved under the counter for later.

[Elric the Silvercoat]

Just wanted to comment about getting GW to send you new models everytime there is something wrong. If you call to much they will cut you off and they will not replace anymore of your models it doesn't matter if you paid for them, got them as a gift or whatever. They WILL say "We are sorry but you have made to many claims and we can't help you with the problem anymore." It doesn't matter if we keep calling for replaces they will just start saying we are sorry we can't do anything and you knew the risk of buying that product before you got it.

 

Utterly wrong.

A product offered for sale must be fit for the purpose for which it was purchased. This is a cornerstone of UK consumer rights, and I believe similar principles exist in most other states / countries.

GW are legally obliged to offer a replacement or full refund where a product does not meet this criteria. They may request the return of faulty product*, or that it be taken into store to show that it IS faulty, but I've never had a request to do that in the face of good quality photos.

When going through my Captain Stern review, I was asked to return stuff, and I said OK, but later on, and they still sent me more models out. I eventually took my excess borked ones back.**

 

In short, you can't be legally expected to accept 15 borked figures if you (as a purchaser) are expecting one good one. Or 15,000, or a million. Just one good one, or a full refund.

 

 

*: Not sure, but I think this has to be at their expense, too. Regardless, GW offer (in the UK at least) a freepost returns address. It's no biggy to use the box you get your replacements in to ship them back.

**: No receipt or anything, no tracking of who I was or where the borked pieces had come from. Just shoved under the counter for later.

Well in the USA that don't have to if the hobby product isn't up to standard and if they feel like you have called too much for replacements. Its stated as buying at your own risk. If you know the product has a high chance of having something wrong with it then you have risked your money and may not get a replacement or your money back. Or that is at least what they have done to others in the USA that I have talked to about it.

[winterdyne]

I would check with your local consumer rights organisations for advice.

[TennisBall]

Why would anyone be willing to pay good money for a product they then ended to invest additional time, effort and resources in restoring to the pristine condition it should have been in when it was purchased???

 

All these "1 perfect, 3 good, 1 returned, so I think Finecast is great" comments ought to have been "1 acceptable and 4 unacceptable."

 

I just can't fathom why anything less than a perfect cast would be something a customer would settle for. It's not the customer's job to forgive the company, the product, or the difficulties encountered in the manufacturing process; it is the customer's role to simply purchase the product. It is the company's responsibility to provide high quality products at a competitive price, free of defects and with equally high-quality customer service. If GW is failing at that, accepting sub-standard product certainly does not encourage them to change their approach...

 

I have bought one finecast set, it was Marneus Calgar and Honour Guard. The front of the vent on one of the helmets was not cast and there were several other holes over the models though the next worst was a corner missing off an Ultramarines symbol. The rest were bubble holes under the feet and under one elbow and under one wrist.

While time consuming, the repairs will take about the same time or less as careful examination in the shop would of several sets to get the perfect set, not to mention time waiting for replacements to be mailed out if that step is taken. This was a one off purchase for me as I really wanted a couple of the models in the set and didn't want to work with metal ones. The missing bit of vent I concede would be a pain to fix (I'm removing it altogether anyway), especially to a novice.

 

That may be why there has not been a deluge of returns either, a lot of the purchases will be gifts and be bought by people who simply wont care about the missing details or even notice them. We've all seen models assembled with flash and even sprue bits showing, the same people will be looking at that finecast model and only seeing the nice overall look and thinking about how it can win battles for them.

 

If they do the Masters of the Chapter in finecast I'll buy it, otherwise I have no reason to purchase any more of this product which obviously has issues.

[Warsmith Aznable]

We've all seen models assembled with flash and even sprue bits showing,

 

:blink:

 

Really? I guess I need to hang out at the FLGS more. I've seen paint jobs that look like they were inspired by Jackson Pollock, but never sprue pieces still sticking off a model.