New to Grey Knights

[Johnnyb79]

Picked up the GK dex a week ago and while im still trying to get my head around the options a few questions popped into my mind and i was wondering if anyone could help me out.

 

1) Can you use a servo skull in the DoW set up to force an opponent to set up 18" away from it?

 

2.1) Can the Brotherhood Champion use its heroic sacrifice against a vehicle? (RaW is it removes one model in base contact on a succesfull hit).

 

2.2) If you can remove a vehicle what happens to the passengers?

 

2.3) Can I use heroic sacrifice in a Death or Glory, I'd fail to stop the machine and so die, get to use heroic sacrifice, hit on probably a 4+ or 6+ then remove the model thats tank shocking, is that right?

 

3) If I use heroic sacrifice or valeria's Hyperstone maze on Bjorn Bearstruck what happens? Bjorns rules state his model is to be left on the table to be used as an objective but the maze and sacrifice both say to remove the model. (although the thought of valeria sucking Bjorn into the maze and then becoming a walking objective herself is hilarious!)

 

4) is Crowes weapon really that bad? am I reading it correct that it has no positive abilities whatsoever? (not even a power weapon) All i can see is that his master swordsman makes him rend on a 4

 

Many thanks for any help that you can give

Johnnyb :)

[Gentlemanloser]

1) Can you use a servo skull in the DoW set up to force an opponent to set up 18" away from it?

 

Yes. Stick these along your side of th emiddle line for most fun. :)

 

2.1) Can the Brotherhood Champion use its heroic sacrifice against a vehicle? (RaW is it removes one model in base contact on a succesfull hit).

 

Yes.

 

2.2) If you can remove a vehicle what happens to the passengers?

 

Dice off. Either they go as well, like Lucas, or they have to disembark like it was destroyed.

 

2.3) Can I use heroic sacrifice in a Death or Glory, I'd fail to stop the machine and so die, get to use heroic sacrifice, hit on probably a 4+ or 6+ then remove the model thats tank shocking, is that right?

 

No. Can only be used if the BC is removed as a casulaty during either Assault Phase. You can't be Tank Shocked in an Assault Phase.

 

3) If I use heroic sacrifice or valeria's Hyperstone maze on Bjorn Bearstruck what happens? Bjorns rules state his model is to be left on the table to be used as an objective but the maze and sacrifice both say to remove the model. (although the thought of valeria sucking Bjorn into the maze and then becoming a walking objective herself is hilarious!)

 

Dice off. Either HS or HTM counter Bjorns special rule, or they don't and Bojrn still becomes a casualty but his 'wreckage' remains.

 

4) is Crowes weapon really that bad? am I reading it correct that it has no positive abilities whatsoever? (not even a power weapon) All i can see is that his master swordsman makes him rend on a 4

 

Yes you're correct. It sucks. Why he couldn't just carry the Blade and use a NFS only Matt Ward knows...

 

But Crowe Rends on every Cleansing Flame Wound caused.

[Dexo]

I don't have my codex here, so this is from the top of my head.

 

 

1) Can you use a servo skull in the DoW set up to force an opponent to set up 18" away from it?

 

No, a servo skull is i all respect a counter and it's only funktion is to deny Scout/infiltrate moves, DoW deployment is not Scout/Infiltrate so no effekt here.

 

2.1) Can the Brotherhood Champion use its heroic sacrifice against a vehicle? (RaW is it removes one model in base contact on a succesfull hit).

You can't be in basecontact with a vehicle therefore heroic sacrifice does not work on vehicle's it works on walker becourse there have a base.

[shortysl]

I have a new question to ask, about Purifiers (i'm asking here because i too am a new GK player). When using Cleansing Flame, do you roll one dice and a 4+, every model under the template takes a wound? Or do you roll a d6 for every model under the template, with any 4's scoring a wound? The wording on the power is a little ambiguous.

 

For what it's worth, i don't think Crowe's that bad. If you're fighting Space Marines or their ilk, he basically counts as having a power weapon (need 4's to wound and he rends on 4's). Granted, the enemy getting bonuses for charging him above and beyond the norm is a bit disturbing, but nicely characterful.

[number6]

Dexo is correct with respect to question (1).

 

As for (2.1) (Heroic Sacrifice against a vehicle): You would have to somehow be in base contact with a non-Walker vehicle when the Champion dies in the assault phase. I don't see that happening as a practical matter in real games, so I would say NO, you can't do this.

[Gentlemanloser]

Ah, your right about 1).

 

You could put your Skull on the middle line in DoW, but you opponent could still set up his 1HQ and 2 Troops anywhere in his own DZ. And if they were within 6", the Skull would go.

 

As for being in base to base with vehicles, you no longer (IIRC) have to move away from a vehicle after you finish CC with one (that was 4th wasn't it?). You can remain in b"b during your and your opponents Assault phases and attack it.

 

But you can't ever be subject to a Tank Shock (and therefore die to Death or Glory) in the Assault Phase. So you can never HS after a Tank Shock.

 

When using Cleansing Flame, do you roll one dice and a 4+, every model under the template takes a wound? Or do you roll a d6 for every model under the template, with any 4's scoring a wound? The wording on the power is a little ambiguous.

 

There's no template for Cleansing Flame. It 'hits' every enemy mini in that CC.

 

As for how many dice you roll, dice off. It's ambiguous.

[saturnine]

4) is Crowes weapon really that bad? am I reading it correct that it has no positive abilities whatsoever? (not even a power weapon) All i can see is that his master swordsman makes him rend on a 4

 

Yes you're correct. It sucks. Why he couldn't just carry the Blade and use a NFS only Matt Ward knows...

 

But Crowe Rends on every Cleansing Flame Wound caused.

 

 

Crowe's Cleansing flame Rends? am i reading that correct?

[Gentlemanloser]

Yes. :D

 

All Crowes Close Combat attacks Rend on a 4+. The recent FAQ clarified that Cleansing Flame was a Close Combat attack. It wounds on a roll of 4+, so every CF wound Crowe rolls rends.

[Johnnyb79]

excellent, thanks for the help there. Crowe now appears much much better than i originally thought! (didnt even consider that he'd normally need 4's to wound anyway and so automatically rend) and his cleansing flame is just awesome!! shame he cant join units :P

 

As far as the heroic intervention goes, if my opponent had, say, a raider and had placed a unit right next to it i would certainly attempt to get my champ in base with it just in case he died in the assault.

 

The servo skulls make sense, i just couldnt remember if it says in DoW setup you cant place within 18" of an enemy model or unit (if it is model then why cant i use them as area denial?).

 

Anyways thanks so far

Johnnyb

[Reclusiarch Darius]

For what it's worth, i don't think Crowe's that bad. If you're fighting Space Marines or their ilk, he basically counts as having a power weapon (need 4's to wound and he rends on 4's). Granted, the enemy getting bonuses for charging him above and beyond the norm is a bit disturbing, but nicely characterful.

 

Good luck getting there. You're either burning a transport (remember, no joining units, because that would be fun and useful) or burning 'TGS' to get him into combat (Scout/Outflank). Even so, if they intercept the transport or feed him a speed bump, it's a pretty simple matter to just gun him down.

He is precisely as bad as a basic power weapon I think you mean. Every other combat unit has higher Initiative (halberds) or hammers (very reliably wounding) and ignores armour saves always. Not to mention they all have force weapons as well. Crowe sucks for what you pay and give up.

 

Yes.

 

All Crowes Close Combat attacks Rend on a 4+. The recent FAQ clarified that Cleansing Flame was a Close Combat attack. It wounds on a roll of 4+, so every CF wound Crowe rolls rends.

 

That is pretty silly. The intention of the rule is to make his gimp sword less useless. Although it sorta explains why we pay a premium for him having exactly the same combat ability (before powers) as a Brotherhood Champion. Be pretty amusing to pull that trick while casting his defensive stance.

[Gentlemanloser]

Aye. CF was always a CC attack (wounds caused by this power are counted as CC attacks for all purposes, or whatever the line is!), the FAQ just clarified it.

 

GW probably didn't expect Crowe to actually ever be useful becuase of it, and I doubt they intended his 4+ Rend to carry over.

 

Maybe in 6th there will be a USR on Rending that it never works with Psychic Powers.

 

But until then, I might actually use him, purely for Rending CF. Without it, I don't think I'd ever touch him. Bad SC is Bad. And nothing more than a Tax for better troops. :)

 

The servo skulls make sense, i just couldnt remember if it says in DoW setup you cant place within 18" of an enemy model or unit (if it is model then why cant i use them as area denial?).

 

"But must position his units more than 18" from enemy units"

 

"Servo Skulls are treated as counters, rather than units"

 

So no go. :P

[greatcrusade08]

the thing about crowes wounding on a 4+ is that even monstorus creatures take a wound (rend causes an automatic wound with no saving throws)..

as mentioned its the same as having a PW when attacking normal T4 MEQ types becuase they wound on a 4 mormally anyway.

 

but yeah his real strength comes when taking on T5 or T6, still wounding on those 4s.

 

its hard to say that crowes sword does nothing, although your point is valid, hes an SC.. he comes with unchangeable gear and rules, he is the sum of his parts so whether his sword has any bonuses or whether he has them makes no never mind

[Murcielago]

Crowe having a rending flame actually makes him useful again...so he has some purpose other than feeding killpoints

[AnImA8]

Wow... the rending bit makes Crowe a friggin meat-grinder... Pity it takes far too much work to actually get him places since he can't join squads...

[Reclusiarch Darius]

the thing about crowes wounding on a 4+ is that even monstorus creatures take a wound (rend causes an automatic wound with no saving throws)..

 

With his D3 attacks or whatever. And still not a force weapon, so he's automatically worse than any other Knight hero. Like, he's worse than even the Brotherhood Champion he's supposed to be the 'uber' version of. Putting aside Heroic Sacrifice, as thats once per game and kills the crab, I mean Crowe.

 

Wow... the rending bit makes Crowe a friggin meat-grinder... Pity it takes far too much work to actually get him places since he can't join squads...

 

Yeah...sigh. I guess a Stormraven could get him there, or a good Outflank thanks to your GM.

 

As an aside, I think we should petition GW to reverse it's flat out retarded decision to not make him an IC. All it would take is a simple errata revision and he'd actually be useful. Still not our best toolkit (Librarian) or carrying crazy grenades (GM, Techmarine), but he'd actually be useful in a Purifier army and could spread his love a little.

[Amadeus Baal]

I completely agree with that Reclusiarch Darius, sometimes I think he's the way he is just to compensate for being able to take Purifiers as troops. Great model though.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I bought him in metal precisely because he is an awesome model.

 

Much love to the model, and to the concept, just not to the execution...

[shortysl]

For what it's worth, i don't think Crowe's that bad. If you're fighting Space Marines or their ilk, he basically counts as having a power weapon (need 4's to wound and he rends on 4's). Granted, the enemy getting bonuses for charging him above and beyond the norm is a bit disturbing, but nicely characterful.

 

Good luck getting there. You're either burning a transport (remember, no joining units, because that would be fun and useful) or burning 'TGS' to get him.

 

Again, i'm new to Grey Knights, but as a Brotherhood Champion of sorts, can Crowe not join a squad so that they can benefit from the Herald of Titan rule? Doesn't that make it a little more feasible that he might make it into combat with an enemy unit? Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying i like him; i pretty much hate the Brotherhood Champion rules, but he's not quite as bad as he first appears.

 

Never mind, just read the couple of posts immediately above mine, wasn't aware that he wasn't an Independent Character.

 

Another edit after re-reading the entry in the Codex. Brotherhood Champions (including Crowe) MUST be able to join units as their Herald of Titan rule states that they, and any squad they have joined may re-roll failed to-hit rolls on the turn in which they charge. Granted, GW has made some massive wording bloopers in the past, but it seems like an enormous oversight even for them, to make a unit that can't join others and then give them a rule that benefits units they've joined.

[Johnnyb79]

Another edit after re-reading the entry in the Codex. Brotherhood Champions (including Crowe) MUST be able to join units as their Herald of Titan rule states that they, and any squad they have joined may re-roll failed to-hit rolls on the turn in which they charge. Granted, GW has made some massive wording bloopers in the past, but it seems like an enormous oversight even for them, to make a unit that can't join others and then give them a rule that benefits units they've joined.

 

 

The Brotherhood Champ has independant character so it applies to them not crowe :lol: Would love to ram Crowe and a unit into my enemies!

 

Just out of interest what happens when a champ or Crowe performs heroic sacrifice on Bjorn? very nearly came up 3 nights ago but I fluffed the charge and Crowe copped a TL Las to the face B)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Another edit after re-reading the entry in the Codex. Brotherhood Champions (including Crowe) MUST be able to join units as their Herald of Titan rule states that they, and any squad they have joined may re-roll failed to-hit rolls on the turn in which they charge. Granted, GW has made some massive wording bloopers in the past, but it seems like an enormous oversight even for them, to make a unit that can't join others and then give them a rule that benefits units they've joined.

 

Because one of the codex writers went full retard and said 'lol lets not give him IC status, so he can run at them on foot like it's 2nd edition'. And also because some of the others probably playtested Matt's rendition of Purifiers and had minor aneurysms when they realised how much psycannon and close-combat death they output.

 

Just out of interest what happens when a champ or Crowe performs heroic sacrifice on Bjorn? very nearly came up 3 nights ago but I fluffed the charge and Crowe copped a TL Las to the face

 

Lol, after reading the rules, Bjorn disappears into the warp. His 'now I am an objective' rule only applies if he suffers a 'Destroyed' result. 'Heroic Sacrifice' has the wording 'removed with no saves', so no dice. Which probably means the Wolf player auto-loses his D3 KP or his objective, depending on the mission.