quick jaws question

[Ikken]

I played a small practice game last night , and had 2 rune priests with jaws against orcs.

a question couple questions occurred to me when it comes to targeting the 1st model with Jaws .

 

I know that i need line of sight , not a perfect line of sight, but i do need to be able to see something of the 1st model i hit .

My 1st question is; in the case where i don't have a clear line of sight, but can see part of the target model, do i have to lay the line over the part of the model that I can see? or can i lay the line over any part of the model even the part of the model that is hidden from view ?

in last nights game i was targeting a big mek behind a dread naught .90% of the model was obscured/hidden , I could see part of his foot and a bit of his base through the dreadnaughts legs but that was it . The orc player did not object to me firing Jaws or give any complaints in how I used it as i did draw my line ( I have a lazer line pointer that works perfectly for Jaws) over the part i could see , and then failed my shooting attack so nothing more came of it .

What would have happened if i had said "i can see your big meks foot , so i am going to hit him with jaws. However i want to draw the line over his head which i can't see so that i can hit him and the nob behind him "? Can i do this or do i need to draw the line over the meks foot , which is the only part of the model i can see and miss the nob ?

 

 

The 2nd question is ; could I target the dread in stead of the mek behind him ? Jaws won't affect the dread , but the dreads base is much bigger allowing me a greater arc to drop the Jaws line on . Can I target a model ( as the 1st line of sight target model ) which jaws won't affect , but which could otherwise be targeted by normal shooting for example a walker , a vehicle or even a building ?

[Arez]

could I target the dread in stead of the mek behind him ? Jaws won't affect the dread , but the dreads base is much bigger allowing me a greater arc to drop the Jaws line on . Can I target a model ( as the 1st line of sight target model ) which jaws won't affect , but which could otherwise be targeted by normal shooting for example a walker , a vehicle or even a building ?

Is the dread your or his?

[Ikken]

Is the dread your or his?

the dread is an enemy deffdread .

an ork abomination , made from the remains of a fallen SW brother dreadnaught . 2 flammers and 2 cc weapons , 60mm base .

I had clear line of sight to all the deffdread , and if i was able to use it's 60mm base as my initial target i would have a much better arc for JotWW and be able to snipe more valuable models than if i have to use the big meks base .

[wolvesoffenris]

My 1st question is; in the case where i don't have a clear line of sight, but can see part of the target model, do i have to lay the line over the part of the model that I can see? or can i lay the line over any part of the model even the part of the model that is hidden from view ?

in last nights game i was targeting a big mek behind a dread naught .90% of the model was obscured/hidden , I could see part of his foot and a bit of his base through the dreadnaughts legs but that was it . The orc player did not object to me firing Jaws or give any complaints in how I used it as i did draw my line ( I have a lazer line pointer that works perfectly for Jaws) over the part i could see , and then failed my shooting attack so nothing more came of it .

What would have happened if i had said "i can see your big meks foot , so i am going to hit him with jaws. However i want to draw the line over his head which i can't see so that i can hit him and the nob behind him "? Can i do this or do i need to draw the line over the meks foot , which is the only part of the model i can see and miss the nob ?

 

The rules state that you draw a line from your rune priest and that he must have line of sight to the first model affected (which becomes the target). It doesn't say that the line must pass over a portion of the model in line of sight, only that the model must be in line of sight. This could go either way, but I would play it where you had to be able to see the point of impact for the line to the first model simply because it makes the most sense that way. The rules don't tell us how to handle this specifically.

 

The 2nd question is ; could I target the dread in stead of the mek behind him ? Jaws won't affect the dread , but the dreads base is much bigger allowing me a greater arc to drop the Jaws line on . Can I target a model ( as the 1st line of sight target model ) which jaws won't affect , but which could otherwise be targeted by normal shooting for example a walker , a vehicle or even a building ?

 

You cannot use the dread as the first model, since he is unaffected by the power. Our FAQ specifically states that the first model affected by the power is the target.

[skoll]

jaws does not roll to hit.However what you saw of the model shouldnt have been enough to fire period :/

[MalachiOfRuss]

... and then failed my shooting attack so nothing more came of it .

Note that, according to the latest FAQ, you no longer need to roll to hit with JotWW.

[Torin]

Good Day brother,

 

When it come to using jaw, you can always draw a line to the target as long as a part of the base can be seen. However it wouldnt be cool for you jawing something that you cant really see. IMO i would only jaw if i can actually see 1/4 of the figure and the line doesnt touch any models before that.

 

cheers.

[Stormbrow II]

However it wouldnt be cool for you jawing something that you cant really see. IMO i would only jaw if i can actually see 1/4 of the figure and the line doesnt touch any models before that.

What does 1/4 of the figure have to do with anything? Not touching any models beforehand? What? :tu:

 

Ignore that.

 

Here's how you use Jaws correctly, including how to cast it into combat: Bam.

[DanPesci]

jaws does not roll to hit.However what you saw of the model shouldnt have been enough to fire period :/

 

wow, i need to read this FAQ :tu:

 

 

most of the time im in chooser LOS anyway so hittin gon twos (is that right) but still...auto hit jaws (after psychic test obviosuly)..excellent.

 

as with only being able to see somethings foot through a dreadnoughts legs...id say thats LOS blocked...but then im nice to my opponents :)

 

 

edit: cool, so jaws no longer counts as a shooting psychic power..as it has no ap value im guessing? BUt all the other usual ones (L.Lighnitng especially as thats the one i use most) do?

[Wulfebane]

edit: cool, so jaws no longer counts as a shooting psychic power..as it has no ap value im guessing? BUt all the other usual ones (L.Lighnitng especially as thats the one i use most) do?

 

It's still considered a shooting attack, for purposes such as you can only make one shooting attack in the shooting phase... you just don't roll to hit.

[DanPesci]

aye yeah, thats what i meant. Cool Cool!

[Torin]

yup refer to the link that stormbrow posted.. its complete.. sorry for the confusion.

[trefenwyd]

Sorry to dredge this up but I had a quick Jaws question. . . My Rune Priest is with a group of suicide melta wolf guard and they come down turn 1 against my buddies wraithwing army. I'd like my wolf guard to combi-melta a few wraiths to death while my Rune Priest uses Jaws to snipe Imotek and his Cryptek... Can I do this?

 

1. It is my understanding that ICs cannot separate from units that come down from drop pods. Rhinos = yes, Drop Pods = no. I won't belabor the point here unless someone thinks I'm wrong. If I'm playing that correctly, that means that the RP and the WG need to target the same unit.

 

2. If I target the wraiths, can I then use Jaws against them (and continuing on to take out Imotek and squad)? Here's where it gets tricky. In this case, we have 2 options.

 

FAQ: "As a psychic shooting attack, Jaws of the World Wolf requires line of sight. The Rune Priest must have line of sight to the first model that the power affects – in effect he is treated as the target model; the power just happens to hit everybody else on its way through!"

 

a. the RP may NOT use Jaws since the declared target is jump infantry and the wording of the Jaws FAQ would lead to a 2nd target declaration for the unit (not allowed per brb)

b. the RP MAY use Jaws since the only actual restriction in the FAQ is LOS, which is satisfied.

 

I would say 'a' is correct, but wanted to get any other Wolf opinions on the subject. Thanks,

 

Trefenwyd

[Schertenleib]

As long as the RP disembarks and is more than 2" away from the Wolf Guard he can then target a separate unit.

[Toasterfree]

jaws does not roll to hit.However what you saw of the model shouldnt have been enough to fire period :/

 

but if you cannot see the model (center mass as stated in the BRB if you can see sword or what ever thats not really enough to say that you see it) you cannot shoot it....

 

2. If I target the wraiths, can I then use Jaws against them (and continuing on to take out Imotek and squad)? Here's where it gets tricky. In this case, we have 2 options.

fire JoWW first problem solved

FAQ: "As a psychic shooting attack, Jaws of the World Wolf requires line of sight. The Rune Priest must have line of sight to the first model that the power affects – in effect he is treated as the target model; the power just happens to hit everybody else on its way through!"

 

a. the RP may NOT use Jaws since the declared target is jump infantry and the wording of the Jaws FAQ would lead to a 2nd target declaration for the unit (not allowed per brb)

b. the RP MAY use Jaws since the only actual restriction in the FAQ is LOS, which is satisfied.

 

I would say 'a' is correct, but wanted to get any other Wolf opinions on the subject. Thanks,

 

Trefenwyd

LOS is satisfied when you target the wraiths, fire JOWW FIRST and scenario A doesnt matter, then fire the melta. problem solved

[dswanick]

Sorry to dredge this up but I had a quick Jaws question. . . My Rune Priest is with a group of suicide melta wolf guard and they come down turn 1 against my buddies wraithwing army. I'd like my wolf guard to combi-melta a few wraiths to death while my Rune Priest uses Jaws to snipe Imotek and his Cryptek... Can I do this?

 

1. It is my understanding that ICs cannot separate from units that come down from drop pods. Rhinos = yes, Drop Pods = no. I won't belabor the point here unless someone thinks I'm wrong. If I'm playing that correctly, that means that the RP and the WG need to target the same unit.

 

2. If I target the wraiths, can I then use Jaws against them (and continuing on to take out Imotek and squad)? Here's where it gets tricky. In this case, we have 2 options.

 

FAQ: "As a psychic shooting attack, Jaws of the World Wolf requires line of sight. The Rune Priest must have line of sight to the first model that the power affects – in effect he is treated as the target model; the power just happens to hit everybody else on its way through!"

 

a. the RP may NOT use Jaws since the declared target is jump infantry and the wording of the Jaws FAQ would lead to a 2nd target declaration for the unit (not allowed per brb)

b. the RP MAY use Jaws since the only actual restriction in the FAQ is LOS, which is satisfied.

 

I would say 'a' is correct, but wanted to get any other Wolf opinions on the subject. Thanks,

 

Trefenwyd

Your question is going to open up a can of worms which has previously been opened. Search the +OR+ forum for a thread concerning a unit with a flamer shooting at a target unit outside flamer template range. Your question is similar to the situation raised there.

As long as the RP disembarks and is more than 2" away from the Wolf Guard he can then target a separate unit.

Not on the turn that they disembark from a Drop Pod.

"Q: If an Independent Character is joined to a unit that is outflanking, when can he leave the unit? (p94)

A: If an independent character is arriving from reserve together with a unit, whether it is outflanking or not, he cannot leave the unit during the turn it arrives. He can, of course, leave it as normal from the following turn." - BRB FAQ

[Schertenleib]

I must have overlooked that one in the FAQ. I see my error and will strive to correct it.

[trefenwyd]

Dswanick,

 

Thanks for your flamer template thread point out. Having read through that, I would say that I would 'never' attempt to flame sqd B if the rest of the unit is shooting sqd A. So, then I had to re-think my original premise . . . was I trying to 'break' the rules b/c for some reason, what I wanted to do didn't seem that bad. Upon reflection, I think the major difference is that in my case, I am actually drawing the JotWW line through the wraiths. My (the general's) intent is to snipe Imotek, but for the game/rules purposes, I am going through the wraiths to get him (very different than shooting in a completely different direction). The 'problem' is the JotWW entry that says the 'first model affected by the ability'. To draw a direct flamer template analogy:

 

Assume that I am firing at squad A, who happens to have an (imaginary for the sake of argument) 'immune to flame' USR. Would I be allowed to target sqd A with a bolter/flamer mix with the flamers hitting squad B which is behind it, or would I be unable to fire my flamers at squad A since they have no effect?

 

I still think that one is UNABLE to use JotWW b/c of dual target declaration, but that is 100% based on the wording of the JotWW FAQ (would be completely legal just using codex wording). The codex leads one to believe that it could be used without a target declaration (just point and open a crevice), but it also says that it is a psychic shooting attack, which requires a target. The FAQ then tells us how to determine the target, which, albeit requiring a wee bit of interpretation, cannot be a vehicle or jump infantry. So, if the RP's psychic power cannot target the unit that the rest of the squad is shooting at, he cannot use that power (seems a bit weird since the JotWW line runs through the wraiths, but I'm becoming more and more convinced as I think about it that it's the correct way to rule it).

 

Trefenwyd

[Grimtooth]

jaws does not roll to hit.However what you saw of the model shouldnt have been enough to fire period :/

 

but if you cannot see the model (center mass as stated in the BRB if you can see sword or what ever thats not really enough to say that you see it) you cannot shoot it....

 

2. If I target the wraiths, can I then use Jaws against them (and continuing on to take out Imotek and squad)? Here's where it gets tricky. In this case, we have 2 options.

fire JoWW first problem solved

FAQ: "As a psychic shooting attack, Jaws of the World Wolf requires line of sight. The Rune Priest must have line of sight to the first model that the power affects – in effect he is treated as the target model; the power just happens to hit everybody else on its way through!"

 

a. the RP may NOT use Jaws since the declared target is jump infantry and the wording of the Jaws FAQ would lead to a 2nd target declaration for the unit (not allowed per brb)

b. the RP MAY use Jaws since the only actual restriction in the FAQ is LOS, which is satisfied.

 

I would say 'a' is correct, but wanted to get any other Wolf opinions on the subject. Thanks,

 

Trefenwyd

LOS is satisfied when you target the wraiths, fire JOWW FIRST and scenario A doesnt matter, then fire the melta. problem solved

 

Firing is considered to be done simultaneous, so no "firing first" shenanigans.