Are scouts worthwhile?

[Bigdog]

Hi guys,

 

I used to play the occassional GW UK Grand Tournament but have been away from the tournament scene for a while now.

 

Traditionally I tend to use lots of marines in Power Armour backed up by the odd dreadnought or tank.

 

I was wondering if scouts are a worthwhile addition to a tournament list? The lack WS and BS makes them less competent in a fight and the lower armour seems to make them a bit squishy. They're not that much cheaper than regular marines so would I be better taking a tactical squad or a scout squad?

 

I tend to have at least 2 tac squads of ten as a core of any army list anyway but would I be better with a scout or tactical squad as my third troops choice.

 

Is it possible to get enough mileage out of infiltrate to make up for the lower stats?

 

Also what should they be kitted out with. I like sniper rifles but due to the lower BS they don't seem to be very effective with them.

 

Thanks for any tips you can provide.

[Kierdale]

GreatCrusade08 is the resident Scout guru.

His wisdom:

Scout Tactica

Land speeder storm tactica

 

Very good stuff in both. Read them and you'll see how scouts can be used well.

[DarkGuard]

If I have the points I like taking a small 5 man Scout squad with Telion and a ML. Durable in cover, can contribute with the ML, and frees up my two Tactical squads to be more attacking in their approach. Definitely worth it for that alone.

 

I highly recommend reading through the articles that Kierdale has linked, very good stuff from GC08.

[Mr. Bleak]

I have great success with 10 man squads with Telion, sniper rifles, and a missile laucher. Infiltrate to where you need to be (even if that means in your own deployment zone, it gives you an option to place them as a reaction to the enemy deployment) and proceed to objective sit with a 3+ cover (2+ if Bolstered by a Techmarine) and pop shots at anything that pops its head out. Especially good on low LD squads that you want pinned or light vehicles.

 

5 man squads in Speeder Storms can be great for first turn blitzing after their scout move. Fly 12 before 1st turn, fly 12, disembark, assault a tank with melta-bombs or powerfist. Or hit a squad of Long Fangs or similar, you'll be hitting on 4's and wounding on 4's anyway and you get a boatload of attacks with BP+CCW and charge.

[greatcrusade08]

Fly 24 before 1st turn, fly 12, disembark, assault a tank with melta-bombs or powerfist.

[Ming]

But how do you measure them out compared to the lowly tactical squad as the other option?

 

Take 2 full tac squads and compare them to the equal point measure of scouts and see who wins....If the scouts win...

[ShinyRhino]

But how do you measure them out compared to the lowly tactical squad as the other option?

 

Take 2 full tac squads and compare them to the equal point measure of scouts and see who wins....If the scouts win...

 

It's tough to compare them because they have different abilities and purposes.

 

Tac Marines are blunt objects that operate in a linear dimension. They're reliable, but cannot really deviate from the game plan or bend without breaking. We all know what Tacs do, and why they do it.

 

Scouts are the main-gauche to your primary blade. They operate in three dimensions more ably than Tac Marines, but like the main-gauche, are not your primary killing stroke. Scouts have in-built abilities to be more durable than Tacs (via camo cloaks and cover), to attack from more than one angle (via infiltration, outflanking, or scout moves), and do these things for a smaller points investment than Tacs.

 

I guess to sum up my flowery analogy, Tacs are your broadsword. Solid, dependable, and brutal when used properly. Scouts are your off-hand dagger. Smaller, faster, but require the opportune moment to strike without putting yourself in danger.

Now, if you can wield the broadsword in one hand, and the dagger in the other...you're a skilled fighter!

[DarkGuard]

I feel that Scouts are very much support units. Thanks to low WS, BS and save they can't carry the battle as well as other units. However, they have a lot of tricks up their sleeves and can fulfill a wide variety of rolls that Tactical squads can't. Outflanking, infiltrate and scouts lets them make fantastic disruption units, give them a combi-melta, a combat weapon, and attack weak and isolated units in your opponent's backline.

 

Or give them snipers and a heavy bolter or missile launcher, and use them sitting further back on objectives giving fire support, pinning units etc.

 

Or perhaps shotguns and CCWs and use them to support other assault units, or even use them them as sweepers after some shooting has taken units down a lot.

 

The Land Speeder Storm should also be noted, as it can really help make them an excellent disruption unit.

 

So Scouts vs Tactical squads, not really easy to say. As ShinyRhino says they're completely different units.

[Mysticaria]

Fly 24 before 1st turn, fly 12, disembark, assault a tank with melta-bombs or powerfist.

Really feel like "fire LSS Multimelta at tank" and "fire Sergeant Combimelta at tank" should also be in here somewhere...

 

-Myst

[greatcrusade08]

I feel that Scouts are very much support units. Thanks to low WS, BS and save they can't carry the battle as well as other units. However, they have a lot of tricks up their sleeves and can fulfill a wide variety of rolls that Tactical squads can't. Outflanking, infiltrate and scouts lets them make fantastic disruption units

 

tbh i havent posted much in this thread because darkguard and shiny are both correct.

scouts can be much much more than support or disruption units, but that concerns building a list around them, choosing a HQ to give them force multipliers, pretty much dedicating the FA slots to them and providing other units that support them in thier optimum play styles.. scouts can be deadly in the right list.

however since thats not whats being asked for, ill try to avoid another ten thousand work post on the benefits of a scout heavy army

 

I was wondering if scouts are a worthwhile addition to a tournament list?

would I be better taking a tactical squad or a scout squad?

would I be better with a scout or tactical squad as my third troops choice?

Is it possible to get enough mileage out of infiltrate to make up for the lower stats?

 

I like sniper rifles but due to the lower BS they don't seem to be very effective with them..

 

ive paraphrased the OP to get to the crux of his questions, ill try to be succinct.

 

in general people only take troops choices becuase they have to, especially in tournaments where codex space marines is somewhat redundant in comparison to newer SM type dexes.

everything we put into a competative C:SM list must be worth its place, although i do attend tournaments and have learned that sometimes left field armies do reasonably well.

in terms of which troops choice to take, then the only advice i can give is take what best suits your army and playstyle.. in this case your asking about adding a single scout squad to make a third troops choice.

in this case the best advice i can give is ten snipers, telion and a ML.. 200 points on the nose and having ten men makes up for the lower BS, sure they will hit less times than tac marines, but rending, pnning, longer range, better durability (mostly) and the ability to wound anything no matter how tough, more than makes up for it.. telion himself is a stone cold killer and his special rules means either dead enemy squad leaders or a BS6 S8 missile every turn.

the best thing about this unit is that they work in a vaccuum, it doesnt matter what HQ your using, what playstyle your prefer, these guys will perform regardless

 

of course the infiltrate USR can be used to advantage, deploying last gives you an edge, and having longer range means you can deploy in safer areas for good LOS.. although if using a techmarine or lysander, youd probably want to forgo infiltrate in favour of seizing a ruins in your DZ

 

if youd prefer to be a little more adventerous with your scout sqaud an outflanking ten man close combat unit with fist and combi-flamer comes in at 175, the same as a naked tac sqaud (+/-5pts)

Or alternatively if youve an FA slot available, you could experiment with a storm build, generally comes in between 150-180 points depending on wargear.

the melta storm actually does very well in tournaments; with the ability to alpha strike and destroy enemy land raiders/monoliths/battlewagons etc, that will hold a nice gribbly uber unit.

really throws a spanner in turn one which can give you the advantage early on.

the link in my sig contains all the info on LSS, so i wont rehash them here.