Valdr Fell-fist Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hail and Good Evening Brothers. At the moment i am looking around for a project to get into as my Post-Scouring Era Space Wolves are not performing particuarly well lately. At the moment i have two choices: Night Lords, based on A D-B's fantastic books (for which i've posted a thread in the Chaos Sub-Forum, about a third of the way down the first page for those of you interested), or to create my own Space Marine Chapter. It is for the second point that i humbly seek the advice of the 'Liber'. For me, background is very important in everything i do, almost as much as the army itself. Two possible names spring to mind 'Imperial Wardens' or 'Void Wardens'. The (very) rough background i am considering places them as a 3rd or 4th Founding Chapter, with a slight emphasis on short range prowess, not necessarily just close combat. Ideally, the army will be led by Vartan Hektor, a Sicarius counts as. As of yet, i have not decided who to trace their gene-seed from. I am torn between Dorn and Sangunius. Now, The two points that are important are: 1) They will have a very high number of old suits of power armour, MKIII onwards. 2) They will not use the Codex Astartes for Company Organisation. For me, the 'Battle Companies' will be all organised as per the company captains preferences, similar to Space Wolves Great Companies. For example, 3rd Company under Tyr Attalus has 4 Devastator squads, 1 Veteran, 1 Assault and 4 Tactical squads. The colour scheme i have in mind is: So , i would just like some general thoughts, and also any advice and criticism that might help me with this. Thank you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248525-wardens/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I like the name Imperial Wardens, but you might want to do a quick search to see if it's not already claimed. It sounds kind of familiar. My advice would be to go with Dorn as the Primarch, and make them Siege Marines with an Urban Warfare specialty. In other words, not the Marines you'd want to man or storm the outer defenses, but to be called in for the city fighting once those defenses have been breached, or who bypass such defenses by drop pods. Perfect warzone conditions for them to take advantage of their close quarters combat preference, whether melee or short-ranged. As for the color scheme, I'm not too fond with the red. Kind of clashes a bit too much in my eyes. I think it'd look better red-trimmed if anything with black or grey pauldrons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248525-wardens/#findComment-3009358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Welcome in the Liber. As of yet, i have not decided who to trace their gene-seed from. I am torn between Dorn and Sangunius. Why Dorn? Why Sanguinius? 2) They will not use the Codex Astartes for Company Organisation. For me, the 'Battle Companies' will be all organised as per the company captains preferences, similar to Space Wolves Great Companies. For example, 3rd Company under Tyr Attalus has 4 Devastator squads, 1 Veteran, 1 Assault and 4 Tactical squads. Why? Speak your mind. How do you expect people to help, when you don't say what is your intention(s)? I like the name Imperial Wardens, but you might want to do a quick search to see if it's not already claimed. It sounds kind of familiar. Storm Wardens are flag-chapter of FFG. ~NightrawenII. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248525-wardens/#findComment-3009601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valdr Fell-fist Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Hello again. I Have spent today thinking about this idea, and can now expand on this a bit more. Apologies for the briefness of my last post, apparently my brain doesn't work too well after a 14 hour shift. For the Primarch, i have long had a preference for Sanguinius and Dorn. To me, i believe that they are the noblest of the loyalist primarchs. I feel that this is an important decision to make as they offer two completely different 'feels' to the Chapter. Angelic warriors, beautiful to look upon with no action wasted, or gritty soldiers, veterans who are prepared to go to any lengths to succeed. I must admit a slight leaning towards Dorn. For one thing, i intend to have a rough greek flavour to these marines and i feel that Dorn is better suited to this than Sanguinius. However, the notion of selflessness as a virtue of a Space Marine appeals to me, and for such i feel that Sanguinius would fit this notion closer. As to the alternate organisation, the first explainationthat comes to mind is that at some point in the distant past, they faced an enemy (Necrons or Chaos Legionnaries) and suffered several horrific reversals as a result of their over-reliance on Codex approved tactics. Only after one Captain began acting in a manner contrary to the Codex did their luck change and victory became theirs. As a result, this Captain, now Chapter Master, turned away from the codex and began to reform the Chapter, with initative the primary virtue of the battle-brothers. Scouts became less common on battlefields, instead most of their training was done on the homeworld and were soon raised to the level of battle brother.It was felt that adhering to an ancient tome, thousands of years old, was vanity itself, the belief that even a primarch could see far enough to predict future threats a mistake. He allowed each Captain to form their own companies autonomously from each other, to their own preferences. This in turn fostered a sense of greater co-operation between different companies, often forcing them to work together to defeat a threat that a single company could not stand against alone. So the revised colour scheme would be: The following is a brief summary of some basics i want to expand upon: They have no fixed number to their Companies, often varying between seventy five and two hundred. This however, would not mean that the Chapter goes above the nominal Thousand battle brothers, as they would simply be drawing upon the common pool of recruits more than another company. Their Chapter Armoury is quite small, with less than a dozen tanks from predators upwards. However, they do use a very high number of Dreadnoughts, often to the equivalent of five per company. They make heavy use of older armour marks, with Veterans often outfitted exclusively in Mk III or IV. In addition, each marine is expected to spend a significant portion of his time with his battle gear, leading to a lot of no standard gear, particuarly sergeants who often wear a suit of armour that would be considered master-crafted amongst many other chapters. So, what i am looking for is some advice on how to expand these, admittedly brief, points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248525-wardens/#findComment-3009806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
soddinnutter Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Unless your chapter has extremely good ties with the Cog-boys I would not have them have that many Dreadnaughts. IT takes 50 years for a skilled Magos and their assistants to make a single Dreadnaught and, with it being a commercially useless skill to the rest of the Imperial Economy, the number of Cog-boys with the knowledge of how to make them is dying out. 5 per company would be about 50 Dreadnaughts. 50 Dreadnaughts! That's as many as 5 tens and that's more than the Iron Hands. The older Power Armour would work with the whole 'repair your own suit' thing as most of the older model suits are, whilst being clunky and not as good performance wise, a lot easier to maintain. May I suggest Ferrus Mannus as an alternative Primarch? Their punishment of weakness could have been what turned them against the Codex in the first place, their adherence to it made them weak. Reliance on anything from Outside the chapter makes them weak. Reliance on another company makes them weak. Reliance on another man to fix your suit and bolter makes you weak. Which is not to say that they hate outsiders. They just need teaching how not to be so weak. maybe they leave pensioned off battle-brothers on the freshly liberated worlds with a couple dozen serfs/thralls/bondsmen to act as missionaries and enact reforms to the governance and PDF. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248525-wardens/#findComment-3009898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 For the Primarch, i have long had a preference for Sanguinius and Dorn. To me, i believe that they are the noblest of the loyalist primarchs. I feel that this is an important decision to make as they offer two completely different 'feels' to the Chapter. Angelic warriors, beautiful to look upon with no action wasted, or gritty soldiers, veterans who are prepared to go to any lengths to succeed. I must admit a slight leaning towards Dorn. For one thing, i intend to have a rough greek flavour to these marines and i feel that Dorn is better suited to this than Sanguinius. However, the notion of selflessness as a virtue of a Space Marine appeals to me, and for such i feel that Sanguinius would fit this notion closer. Well, I would say Dorn was selfless warrior too. His sacrifice on board of Sword of Sacrilege is good pointer. The Sanguinius' geneline brings the additional luggage of Red Thirst/Black Rage, so if you don't want the theme of tragical doomed heroes, Dorn is better choice. As to the alternate organisation, the first explaination that comes to mind is that at some point in the distant past, they faced an enemy (Necrons or Chaos Legionnaries) and suffered several horrific reversals as a result of their over-reliance on Codex approved tactics. Only after one Captain began acting in a manner contrary to the Codex did their luck change and victory became theirs. As a result, this Captain, now Chapter Master, turned away from the codex and began to reform the Chapter, with initative the primary virtue of the battle-brothers. ... which is unfortunately what comes to mind of everyone, who wants non-codex Chapter. Yeah. :angry: Btw, building your Chapter around their non-adherence to codex is vanity itself. :) This in turn fostered a sense of greater co-operation between different companies, often forcing them to work together to defeat a threat that a single company could not stand against alone. This sort of defeats the purpose of autonomous companies... Okey, so what we have here: Gene-seed (presumably Dorn) - Stubborn refusal to give up. - Devotion to your battle-brothers with tendency for sacrifice. - (Self-)punishment for any, perceived or real, weakness. - ??practice of sword-duels - ??practice of Emperor's Champion - ??good relationship with other Imperial institutions Greek flavour - There is alot of things, which could be attributed to Greeks. - Funny note, the Battle of Plataea was fough because Amompharetus refused to withdrawn... Emphasis on short range prowess - The pride and confidence in meeting a enemy eye to eye instead of peew-peewing him from affar. - ??Boldness vs. Clandestine/Covert Mk. III 'Iron' Armour - is TDA 0.5 used in close-quarter fights and boarding actions... Mk. IV 'Imperial Maximus' Armour - is tricky to manufacture and difficult to maintain and repair... - Possible high regard for craftsmanship and artisans. Initiative and Unity - are the highest virtues. Something like this? ~NightrawenII. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248525-wardens/#findComment-3010493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valdr Fell-fist Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 @soddinnutter: Hmm, you are right. perhaps a approximation of three per company per company? Ferrus was my third choice, but i think that short of lots of bionics- not a route i want to go really- i would be doing them an injustice. @nightrawenII: Dorn it is. i think i was sort of waiting for some approval for some others before i committed to that. Silly, rather. Hmm, another possibility is that the first Chapter Master, full of devotion to Dorn's ideals, felt that the Imperial Fists had been forced into the Codex by Gulliman and the wider Imperium. As such, he decided that instead his subordinates would be free to organise their companies by their own preferences. by autonomous, i meant that more in terms of the organisation. So It is entirely the choice of the Captain how his company is organised, and it is not his brother-captain's place to comment upon his choice, and htat the Chapter Master should not rebuke him for his choice. I did want a great deal of co-operation between the different companies, which would explain why the chapter often fights in numbers uncommon to other Chapters. With the Greek flavour, that will be represented (models-wise) with the moulded breastplates from the Sanguinary guard box, crests on sergeants and above and of course, with their names. In fact, i am going to read The Illiad to get some ideas for this. I come down more on the side of boldness for their actions, which stems from their preference of short ranged battle. So the first 'through the breach' would be the Veterans in Mark III, followed by those in Mark IV. Mark IV would be seen as a vanity however, as that marine would be forced to spend even more time on maintenance and repair than usual. Hope that helps a bit more with the outline. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248525-wardens/#findComment-3010756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 @nightrawenII: Dorn it is. i think i was sort of waiting for some approval for some others before i committed to that. Silly, rather. Hmm, another possibility is that the first Chapter Master, full of devotion to Dorn's ideals, felt that the Imperial Fists had been forced into the Codex by Gulliman and the wider Imperium. There are dragons, my friend. Dorn was not against Codex organisation per se, but against splitting his legion into Chapters. As such, he decided that instead his subordinates would be free to organise their companies by their own preferences.by autonomous, i meant that more in terms of the organisation. So It is entirely the choice of the Captain how his company is organised, and it is not his brother-captain's place to comment upon his choice, and htat the Chapter Master should not rebuke him for his choice. I did want a great deal of co-operation between the different companies, which would explain why the chapter often fights in numbers uncommon to other Chapters. Ahem. I will stop here, because I simply can't see any reason in fixing what is not broken. :) With the Greek flavour, that will be represented (models-wise) with the moulded breastplates from the Sanguinary guard box, crests on sergeants and above and of course, with their names. In fact, i am going to read The Illiad to get some ideas for this.I come down more on the side of boldness for their actions, which stems from their preference of short ranged battle. So the first 'through the breach' would be the Veterans in Mark III, followed by those in Mark IV. Mark IV would be seen as a vanity however, as that marine would be forced to spend even more time on maintenance and repair than usual. Hope that helps a bit more with the outline. *scratches on head* Do you know what is, in my case, problem? - All of these thing are modeling/gameplay issues, not exactly background related. ~NightrawenII. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248525-wardens/#findComment-3011408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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