Nym468 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 So I'm thinking about creating a squad for my Ultras focused on long range and silent attack. This is purely a modeling expedition, I have no intention of fielding this unit. I'm thinking of painting up a squad of full battle brothers with sniper rifles and silenced bolters. They'll be members of the 4th Company. This is the paint scheme I've come up with. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possessed Marine Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I think it's a pretty cool idea. That's kinda why I started guard, veterans with sniper rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Here is the thing, and why Space Marines do not have dedicated sniper units: Snipers do not need the heaviest body armour. Snipers do not need enhanced muscles and bones as hard as ceramics. A lot of effort is put into making Space Marines into supreme warriors. But when they are simply deployed in camouflaged positions and take pot shots, then most of their potential is not utilised at all. It is essentially wasted resources. Resources that would be much more effective if they were used in battle. Scouts do not have the heavy power armour, they do not have the full training and experience, and they do not neccessarily have all of the biological enhancements, so they can perform sniper duties without too much of combat potential being left untapped. But it is a modelling exercise, and you came up with it. A PA Marine with a heavy sniper rifle (something bigger than what Scouts use, perhaps?) can probably look very impressive. I just wanted to point out that Space Marines do not really use such units, and give a reason why. I am also aware that some of the Badab War Chapters had been described as using power armoured sniper units. (The Mantis Legion, iirc?) Codex Chapters do not. Divergent Chapters are not necessarily allways making the best use of their resources. Or sometimes an author just gets away with a whacky idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanguardwolf Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 fluff wise you can make it fit as blackops(in case that one of you is killed or captured the emperium wil deny your existence) and why would scouts only would have snipers, blackops are almost always in very hosite locations. not only your deep in enemy teritory but heat, cold. lava, ice , toxic acids. creatures of the planet. places where scouts are not that surviaveble. some even dont have the organs needid to coulp with this. a marine with sniperrifle or scilenced bolter, demo charge's, and stuff greets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Being that Ultramarines are the strictest adherents to the Codex, fluff wise its a no-no. As Legatus says, any Codex-divergent chapter would probs be a better idea, or a Ultra successor is more likely. Again, fluff wise, Stalker pattern bolters are waaaay more likely than sniper rifles for PA marines. Now, all thats out of my system, purely as a modelling excercise, I'd love to see some PA snipers with amped up sniper rifles, they'll look aces!!! If/when they happen, pics please. Cheers, Jono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitsplitta Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I have a unit of "sniper" marines in my Mantis Warrior army. They're my sternguard. In play, the sniper aspect comes in with their special ammunition (30" range, special abilities, etc). To ehhance the look of them, I painted them as per the original "Tranquility Sniper Camo" in WD. I took their bolt guns and added sniper rifle barrels. The end result is pretty sweet looking and very believable for sterguard and for a full marine sniper. They've gotten a lot of positive comments from my opponents too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I have a unit of "sniper" marines in my Mantis Warrior army. They're my sternguard. In play, the sniper aspect comes in with their special ammunition (30" range, special abilities, etc). To ehhance the look of them, I painted them as per the original "Tranquility Sniper Camo" in WD. I took their bolt guns and added sniper rifle barrels. The end result is pretty sweet looking and very believable for sterguard and for a full marine sniper. They've gotten a lot of positive comments from my opponents too! Unf. You rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 So I'm thinking about creating a squad for my Ultras focused on long range and silent attack. Cool! This is purely a modeling expedition, I have no intention of fielding this unit. Why not? You'll put effort and time in a really interesting unit and leave it out? Can't see why... Make them normal marines for gaming purposes and add tons of color in your force! I'm thinking of painting up a squad of full battle brothers with sniper rifles and silenced bolters. I see the objections for the sniper rifles and somewhat agree - fluff wise. Just do the silenced bolters bit! The combination of the barrel of the sniper rifles attached to normal bolters is ace! It really conveys the "silencer" feeling and looks dead cool! They'll be members of the 4th Company. This is the paint scheme I've come up with. Why predominantly green? They are UM after all... If you want green to denote their elite/specialty status then go the DeathWatch way, i.e. paint a hand or some other detail. I'm suggesting to keep them instantly recognizeable as UMs but with somwething obviously "different" about them - enough for people to ask what's the story behind it bit not to confuse them with DAs! ^_^ Any thoughts? Great idea! Just do it - and post pics! ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reckoning Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Here is the thing, and why Space Marines do not have dedicated sniper units: Snipers do not need the heaviest body armour. Snipers do not need enhanced muscles and bones as hard as ceramics. A lot of effort is put into making Space Marines into supreme warriors. But when they are simply deployed in camouflaged positions and take pot shots, then most of their potential is not utilised at all. It is essentially wasted resources. Resources that would be much more effective if they were used in battle. Scouts do not have the heavy power armour, they do not have the full training and experience, and they do not neccessarily have all of the biological enhancements, so they can perform sniper duties without too much of combat potential being left untapped. But it is a modelling exercise, and you came up with it. A PA Marine with a heavy sniper rifle (something bigger than what Scouts use, perhaps?) can probably look very impressive. I just wanted to point out that Space Marines do not really use such units, and give a reason why. I am also aware that some of the Badab War Chapters had been described as using power armoured sniper units. (The Mantis Legion, iirc?) Codex Chapters do not. Divergent Chapters are not necessarily allways making the best use of their resources. Or sometimes an author just gets away with a whacky idea. While I agree with mostly everything you have stated, I believe you are slightly misjudging the value of snipers. This could just be a situation of the game not matching real life, which is fine, but normally in a sniper team your veteran members are going to be the ones carrying the precision rifles. Why? Because they have more experience and training. Again thats real life and we're talking about a fictional universe, but Id like to think that some proven methods of war carry over. A full battle brother, even without PA, would be the better choice in a scout/sniper role any day of the week. Increased reflexes, survivability, and perhaps the most important aspect, experience. And a scout sniper team is not taking pot shots. They deliver accurate, long range shots that are aimed at High Value Targets. They also provide the best recon element in a combat group, giving the force commander an entire picture of the battlefield. But once again, that is real life and this is not. IMO, this is one of those things where the Codex Astartes is very near sighted and should be altered. But as it stands right now, scout/snipers are drawn from the 10th company. The Ultramarines adhere to the codex probably more than any other chapter. Ergo, fluff wise, doesnt make much sense. Modeling wise it would be awesome to see. Pictures as soon as possible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Snipers do not need the heaviest body armour. Snipers do not need enhanced muscle have you ever seen how big snipers using Lahti M39 were ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Ive always thought a Super Heavy Sniper would be cool to design, 2 super heavy calibre weapons that could punch through even Le Man Russ tank armour. Mounted on a terminators shoulders. (same kinda design as Tau Broadsides) So they can teleport on the edge of a battle field fortress, set up punch through the defences with a single shot to ahniliate the enemy commander then simply teleport back to the ship. Simple, Fast HIGHLY effective. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reckoning Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Ive always thought a Super Heavy Sniper would be cool to design, 2 super heavy calibre weapons that could punch through even Le Man Russ tank armour. Mounted on a terminators shoulders. (same kinda design as Tau Broadsides) So they can teleport on the edge of a battle field fortress, set up punch through the defences with a single shot to ahniliate the enemy commander then simply teleport back to the ship. Simple, Fast HIGHLY effective. :( Thats more in line with a heavy weapons platform though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nym468 Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Thanks for all the input. After all the great comments these guys will be members of 1st company. The only real thing I would really like is some difference in armor color. The green was just the first thing to came to mind (ie. camo). What does everyone think of a very deathwatchesque look with all black armor except the chapter symbol background? The right shoulder pad will be black with a white crux terminus perhaps wrapped in laurels. Or how about normal UM armor but the backgrounds of each shoulder are black? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 possibly they adopt camo for the terrain they are in. Makes them more unique to the other battle brothers. I know some chapters do employ camouflage, (cant remember who at the moment) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I think the Agemo on black background would be coolness incarnate! ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nym468 Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 I'm working the next couple days so I won't get the chance to work on this till Friday. I'll paint up some examples and post them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Thats cool, Kinda adds a little flavour to the smurf legions ranks, I mean Roboute bases his comat tyles on 'HERE I AM COME FIGHT ME!' to have a group of brothers within the Ultras is kinda like an homage to adaptation, where he fought the Alpha legion using their own game style agaisnt them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Angel Scout Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Why not make the fluff along the lines of the squad being made up from former 10th Co Sgt's, who's scouts were rendered inactive by some means (Nids/Dark Eldar/Traitor Marines etc) therefore allowing for different PA variants, wider range of weapon loadout and a basis for consistant squad paint scheme and markings- your own twist on those of existing 10th Co signifying their past or whatever led to their creation as such a unit. Either way, think it's a cool idea and look forward to seeing your progress. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nym468 Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Real quick update. I got a chance to make up a silencer for the bolter. I shortened the muzzle of the bolter a little bit to simulate the silencer slipping over the end of it. I also managed to find some sniper rifles on eBay that I think will work well. Let me know what you think, any suggestions? Sniper Rifle Link http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7210/6821116838_bf57f1e065_b.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Sergeant Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Being that Ultramarines are the strictest adherents to the Codex, fluff wise its a no-no. Actually, if you really think about what the Codex would say, it actually makes the most sense. Marines adhering to the Codex would be adaptable. So while a specific unit of snipers like that would not fit the Codex's organizational doctrines, Ultramarines adapting to a specific tactical need would. That aside, I still have a problem with "silenced" bolters. They fire miniature rocket ammunition. How do you silence that? Plus, in many environmental conditions, it could leave a pretty easily back-traceable contrail, eliminating any stealth aspect. Half of the idea behind the Space Marines and bolters is "shock and awe". Loud, violent action that disables the enemy not just by accurate fire, but by noise, confusion, and fear. A "sniper" variant of a bolter would simply fire specialized long range ammunition. More akin to something like the Barret .50 anti-material rifles the US military uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Silencer looks good Nym! Can't wait to see a squad armed with them! Not so sure of the sniper rifles - need to see them on the mini. They look too... realistic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nym468 Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Being that Ultramarines are the strictest adherents to the Codex, fluff wise its a no-no. Actually, if you really think about what the Codex would say, it actually makes the most sense. Marines adhering to the Codex would be adaptable. So while a specific unit of snipers like that would not fit the Codex's organizational doctrines, Ultramarines adapting to a specific tactical need would. That aside, I still have a problem with "silenced" bolters. They fire miniature rocket ammunition. How do you silence that? Plus, in many environmental conditions, it could leave a pretty easily back-traceable contrail, eliminating any stealth aspect. Half of the idea behind the Space Marines and bolters is "shock and awe". Loud, violent action that disables the enemy not just by accurate fire, but by noise, confusion, and fear. A "sniper" variant of a bolter would simply fire specialized long range ammunition. More akin to something like the Barret .50 anti-material rifles the US military uses. I think it's entirely conceivable that they are utilizing a different ammunition that would make tracing its source more difficult. I would think that in the far future that 40k represents some type of ammunition exists for this purpose. I'm mainly do this as a visual exercise because I think it would look different and interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nym468 Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 That rifle was really the only one I could find that didn't look like it belonged storming the beaches of Normandy or some AK or M-16/4 variant. I intend on adding an extension to the barrel after removing the flash suppressor. I'm more than willing to choose another rifle I just can't seem to find one. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 That aside, I still have a problem with "silenced" bolters. They fire miniature rocket ammunition. How do you silence that? Plus, in many environmental conditions, it could leave a pretty easily back-traceable contrail, eliminating any stealth aspect. Half of the idea behind the Space Marines and bolters is "shock and awe". Loud, violent action that disables the enemy not just by accurate fire, but by noise, confusion, and fear. A "sniper" variant of a bolter would simply fire specialized long range ammunition. More akin to something like the Barret .50 anti-material rifles the US military uses. I do remember somewhere that tere are bolter shells that are propelled by gas rather than combustibles. Then they could easily silence them. Think it was the stalker. Found it: From a 40k wikia: Stalker Silenced Shells are Bolter Rounds that possess low sound signatures, intended to be used for covert combat and sniping. These rounds are used in conjunction with an M40 Targeting System and an extended barrel on a Bolter to produce a sniping weapon system. A solidified mercury slug replaces the mass-reactive warhead for lethality at subsonic projectile speeds. A gas cartridge also replaces both the propellant base and main charge for silent firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warped-Bitz Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Ive always thought a Super Heavy Sniper would be cool to design, 2 super heavy calibre weapons that could punch through even Le Man Russ tank armour. Mounted on a terminators shoulders. (same kinda design as Tau Broadsides) So they can teleport on the edge of a battle field fortress, set up punch through the defences with a single shot to ahniliate the enemy commander then simply teleport back to the ship. Simple, Fast HIGHLY effective. :D I wouldn't really picture a marine in terminator armour with 2 big snipers mounted on his shoulders being particularly stealthy? Marines have the whole "martial honour" thing going on, get in fast, hard, let the enemy know who you are them leave them in a bloody mess Still think the whole idea of Special ops/sniper marines pretty cool however, wouldn't it fit in well with the Mantis warriors, they like camouflage etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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