Brother-Captain Stacius Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Ok, so having constructed the core of my force, I am thinking about adding a librarian. So the questions are, A.Can he join Mordraks unit for deep strike? So benefits from Mordraks special rules regarding arrival? B. Utilising the summoning on a vehicle can he effect immobilised ones? Eg. Land raider is immobilised but I summon it, does it work? C.Sanctuary can it be activated from inside a vehicle regardless of fire points and distance moved? Apologies in advance if any of these have been answered before. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248572-random-question-regarding-librarians/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 The libby can join Mordrak IF Mordrak comes with at least 1 Ghost Knight in the list; IC's can't join units that consist of a single model unless they are other IC's, and Mordrak is not an IC. Add a unit to Mordrak in the form of Ghost Knights and the Libby can join. The summoning power does not specifically disallow immobilized vehicles, as far as I can remember. Sanctary can be activated from inside a vehicle, yes. And remember- Stormraven wings are counted as Hull for purposes of measuring psychic power ranges :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248572-random-question-regarding-librarians/#findComment-3009754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 The Summoning and Imobile vehicles is an interesting one! I'd have to say no, purely becuase Warp Stabilisation Field states a vehicles 'moved' this way counts as moving flat out. And an imobile vehicle can't move. Flat out or otherwise. But it would be nice to see it FAQed either way. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248572-random-question-regarding-librarians/#findComment-3009840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Warp Stabilization field does not create the movement- it only allows The Summoning to be used on it. The Summoning is the source of the movement, not the immobile vehicle. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248572-random-question-regarding-librarians/#findComment-3009857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3mpl@r Crusade Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I wanted to do the same thing with mordrak, but realized I wanted troop grey knights more, and unfortunately, if I think I know where you are going, you want mordrak, plus a ton of termies, plus a libbie to ds down into some vulnerable point dont you? The crappy part is that you cant equip ghost knights as freely as one would like. Summoning an immobilized vehicle, hmmm interesting. technically, the vehicle does not need to physically move its drivetrain to be teleported, even though it says the vehicle will count as moving flat out. If i were playing you, I'd allow it as it does not state immobilized vehicles cannot be teleported. Yes, since sanctuary is triggered in your opponents shooting phase, the fact that you say just moved 24 inches with a storm raven doesnt matter. My one list runs 2 storm ravens with a libbie, and I abuse the hell out of 3+ cover saves, its delicious. Also note that the power projects from the hull, and since wings now count as part of the hull, I have a huge 12" from hull edge radius for the power. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248572-random-question-regarding-librarians/#findComment-3009884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Stacius Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Many thanks for the replys! Yeah I was thinking mordrak and summoning fun. Maybe just 1-2 ghost knights to make the unit. As regards the immobilised vehicle, I figured it could be done as its the power moving it and not the vehicle. But am hoping for a FAQ to sort it either way too :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248572-random-question-regarding-librarians/#findComment-3010179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I would think that the same answer would apply to GK as it does to BA in regards to lib dreads and wings of sang. I can't find the ruling, does anybody know how that one was answered? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248572-random-question-regarding-librarians/#findComment-3010348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Warp Stabilization field does not create the movement- it only allows The Summoning to be used on it. The Summoning is the source of the movement, not the immobile vehicle. Of course! But WSF gives the rules for *how* vehicles work with the summoning, as without it, you can't summon them. And WSF states that vechile 'moving' this way (via the summoning) count as moving flat out. Immobile vehciles can't move, and can't move flat out. :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248572-random-question-regarding-librarians/#findComment-3010440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I would think that the same answer would apply to GK as it does to BA in regards to lib dreads and wings of sang. I can't find the ruling, does anybody know how that one was answered? Yes- immobilized Libby Dreads cannot suddenly begin to move again through their own psychic power -_- The power makes them move as if they were Jump Infantry, but they're still an immobilized Dreadnought. Immobile vehciles can't move, and can't move flat out. ;) They cannot move under their own power, but they can be moved by an outside source and they can count as moving flat out ;) Take the BA's Magna Grapple as an example- it also moves vehicles as an outside source. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248572-random-question-regarding-librarians/#findComment-3010763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Does it? I've not read the dex at all, but does it make any reference to being used on an immobile vehicle? Or is this just how we're assuming the Magna Grapple works? Do the Immobilised damage result rules say that a vehicle can't move under it's own power, but can be moved by something else? Is there any distinction between moving? Is moving under your own power seperate to being moved? Apart from voluntary/compulsory movement. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248572-random-question-regarding-librarians/#findComment-3010799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Well, what do you take it to mean when the BRB says immobilized vehicles cannot "move"? Do you interpret it to mean "nothing can make this vehicle move, short of the planet underneath it exploding" or do you interpret it to mean "the tracks/legs/engine/whatever is damaged and the vehicle cannot voluntarily move"? How would it be possible for an immobilized vehicle to be so immobilized that it cannot be dragged by a winch or teleported by a psychic power? Even though the RAW doesn't come right out and say it, logically what the RAW means is "the vehicle cannot move voluntarily." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248572-random-question-regarding-librarians/#findComment-3010891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Your guess is as good as mine! We can't really bring RL reasoning into 40k. Maybe, by being immobilized, the bottom of the tank has been shattered, and it can't be dragged by a chain fired form a much smaller vehicle? Maybe the Magna Grapple only works if the wheels on the tank still turn? :P (A Dread dragging a LR? Really? LoL!) Oh and as for The Summoning, the obvious reaosn is that the devestaitng damage the Tank has suffered has broken the *delicate* filagree work of the WSF, and it no longer works. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248572-random-question-regarding-librarians/#findComment-3011084 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I find this debate hilarious! Not because any of the people -- or their arguments -- are silly! But because it's so ridiculous that it's even possible to argue it out because GW couldn't be bothered to answer something so obvious! ;) FWIW, I tend to side with Gentlemanloser on this one. But that's because I think it's up to us to divine the (wait for it) ... intention of the rules. (Sometimes, that's all we're left with!) It is my belief that a vehicle that is immobilized is meant to be permanently immobilized. I don't have any logic better than Gentlemanloser's to back it up, it's just what I feel is the "correct" solution given the rules as we currently know and understand them. I could be "wrong", of course! ;) YMMV. ;) In the end, I think it is way cooler for magna-grapples and the summoning to yank around immobilized vehicles. Seems fluffier. But also seems quite awkward for the game as a whole. Good luck working this out with your gaming partners! :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248572-random-question-regarding-librarians/#findComment-3011539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 And so what it comes down to (again! Sigh... ;) ) is to speak to your local gaming group. As evidenced above, some people will interpret the immobilized damage result to mean no movement in any way ever again (unless a Techmarine repairs the damage) while others may take a different tack ;) and GW is no help in either case because they really didn't define the "immobilized" status thoroughly enough. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248572-random-question-regarding-librarians/#findComment-3011550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Aye! If only they'd let any of us actually edit thier work, the system would be a whole lot tighter... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/248572-random-question-regarding-librarians/#findComment-3011614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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