Inquisitor Novels

[Amadeus Baal]

In my opinion it is a bit harsh to say BL is rubbish and I would like to add my 2ps worth. I don't really like to rubbish a man or woman's work, unless he's my doctor or my banker, at the end of the day, you don't actually have to buy the book. I think DA and GM truly have talent and I really enjoy reading their work.

 

If you walk into your local GW today, have a look around at the customers, this is BL's main target audience. I think BL's main strength is that they give the younger guys novels that they actually want to read. Novels with a degree of complexity that they will learn alot from and these days that has to be a good thing. That would also apply to anyone who has not read much in the past. There is surely a huge range of ways a younger person will learn from reading these novels, too many to list here, but to me that is a great thing. That applies to the codexes and the hobby in general of course.

 

Yes I do agree about the comments about sex in the novels. Sex is one of the main driving forces that determine half of the things living things do. Let's face it, we ain't any different. I'm sure most of us could have a field day writing sex scenes in 40k etc. But how far do you go? I'm thinking Slaanesh and the DE for example. I'm sure we all could write some fab fiction relating to those guys. But would we want younger or inexperienced minds reading them? Perhaps having their first taste of sexual literature/ sexual scenes coloured so? Personally as a parent I wouldn't. You would also have to start putting an age rating on the novels that would restrict their access to the younger reader, which from my point above wouldn't be a good thing. All in all I think BL have the balance about right.

My 2ps.

[Olis]

I find it odd that our society is far more comfortable with young adolescents reading books that feature death and gore than it is with them reading about anything to do with sex. They're going to find out about it eventually, so I don't believe a book that alludes to 'adult' relationships (or even has somewhat toned down descriptions of contact) to be as earthshattering as it is portrayed. -_- Done right, it can avoid being cheesey or obscene and still lend a more 'grown up' experience about the story. Take Necropolis, for example. There is an intimate relationship in that and yet it doesn't feel tacky or obscene to have it included in the story and there is the bonus of later consequences - which directly influences character development.

[Amadeus Baal]

Oh I completely agree with you. Sex shouldn't be hidden away it's the most natural thing in the world. I could write more but I wont. To me, sex and violence have different effects on the human psyche and sex drives us much, much more. Ever watched Tom and Jerry cartoons? I think that has a different effect on us than say a porn flick. So yes I agree, there are hints of it in BL novels, we know some of the characters share a bed, the girls in Legion etc. At the moment I think BL has the balance about right. If you start adding more sex into the 40k universe, especially with the characters in the 40k universe, Slaanesh etc, it becomes a far more grey area and you could just go a little too far. To suit all the readers anyway and I would hate to see the novels censured. That's just what I think.

 

I think this has gone a lil off topic. Doh! Yea the Inquistor books are pretty good ^_^

[Dosjetka]

Yes, the BL books do have a nice balance. But as you said Amadeus, putting more wouldn't be a good idea.

 

Ludovic

[Chengar Qordath]

I think part of the problem is that too many BL books are just there to sell models. I'm pretty sure A-D-B mentioned in one posts here that the bosses at the BL wanted him to make a point of including characters based on the new Grey Knight models doing cool things in one of his stories.

 

They did. And I said no. It wasn't much: "Any room for a Dreadknight?" "Nope."

 

It's not a general thing they force on anyone. I've been asked once, in five novels. The usual case is quite the opposite. The Studio, Forge World and Black Library are only recently starting to communicate this kind of thing.

Wow; mention his name, and he appears.

 

Anyway, while it's nice to know the studio/FW/BL isn't constantly pushing its authors to promote every single new model, there do seem to be some books that make a point of practically going down the checklist of units in the codex including every single one, and giving them all a scene that's obviously meant to wow the reader into buying one. It can be a little jarring once you notice it.

 

Personally, I prefer the character-driven approach. It makes for better stories, and a good story does a lot more to build up interest in an army than a cookie-cutter plot built around promoting new models. Just look at how many threads you can find about the Night Lords in the Chaos forum.

[Wade Garrett]

Yes I do agree about the comments about sex in the novels. Sex is one of the main driving forces that determine half of the things living things do. Let's face it, we ain't any different. I'm sure most of us could have a field day writing sex scenes in 40k etc. But how far do you go? I'm thinking Slaanesh and the DE for example. I'm sure we all could write some fab fiction relating to those guys.

 

Make it better = throw some sex in? C'mon fellas. Would, say, Lord of the Rings be a better series if Professor T had taken the time to write in some hot and steamy interludes between the Fellowship and various bar maids, elf maids, and er...ork maids? Would it add anything to H.P. Lovecraft's stuff if we got extremely detailed descriptions (in Lovecraft's trademark squamous, batrachian and gibbious prose!) about exactly how we get half human Deep Ones?

 

Sure, some stories can be improved by a little T & A, but somtimes it adds nothing to the writing and sometimes it completely wrecks the story. And for heaven's sake, many of you complain that the BL's band of nerds has no clue how to write convincing fight scenes or military tactics, due to their lack of first hand experience. And you want these same enamored of little plastic men and comic books guys to try their hand at writing erotica!?

 

Sometimes you can just see the iceberg bearing down on the ship carrying Leonardo Dicaprio.

[Olis]

I think you might be reading a lttle too far into it. I myself considered the element of 'sex' to not usually be actual sex, brother, but of relationships. True, just simply chucking it in could and would wreck many a story but not having some sort of aspect in that regard would make some stories seem very two dimensional, especially the ones dealing with characters that are your average everyday human being.

 

And you want these same enamored of little plastic men and comic books guys to try their hand at writing erotica!?

 

Are you alluding to that old cliche about wargamers being somewhat inexperienced in the bedroom? ^_^ :)

[Wade Garrett]

I think you might be reading a lttle too far into it. I myself considered the element of 'sex' to not usually be actual sex, brother, but of relationships. True, just simply chucking it in could and would wreck many a story but not having some sort of aspect in that regard would make some stories seem very two dimensional, especially the ones dealing with characters that are your average everyday human being.

It was the mentions of the Dark Eldar and Slaanesh in particular to assume that a bit more than "relationships" was being requested from the Black Library Authorship. I have to agree with you that characters have friends, family, acquaintances and even !gasp! sexual tension makes them seem more like human beings and a bit less like, well, pretend little plastic men on a table.

 

 

Are you alluding to that old cliche about wargamers being somewhat inexperienced in the bedroom? ^_^ :P

No stereotype survives to become a hoary, moss covered cliche without something to back it up. Plus, as a someone posting on the B & C that would put me squarely in the camp of the pot addressing the kettle, yes?

And I think I would rather read the hypothetical H.P. Lovecraft "Debbie Does a Deep One" a dozen times than even glance at sex scenes written by C.S. Groto or, Dorn and Russ forbid, Matt Ward. :)

[Olis]

Yes, that's fair enough on both points. ^_^

[The Holy Heretic]

...and Russ forbid, Matt Ward. :)

 

"First Draigo banged the blond one, and gave her a ride so pure that Slaanesh him/her/itself was diminished by the psychic resonance. Then he took the redhead, so rough that Khorne had to shut his eyes in despair. And at last he gave the ravenhaired girl such pleasure with his tongue that it is said that the emperor himself stirred in his slumber.

 

After the hot, steamy awesome sex, Draigo ripped the sisters throat out and thrice blessed his armour in their blood and went to slay the 777 'thirsters of Magic Mountain..."

 

^_^

 

 

-

 

Back on topic. I don't think anyone called for drivelling porn or anything raunchy at all. I just (meant to) say that if you have to make good pulp lit, then you have to follow the conventions of the genre, and that includes using every cheap parlor trick in the book. Just look at your run-of-the-mill Hollywood action production, at some point that BA action hero will "nail" the female lead, whose role serves no other purpose than being a "powerup" for the hero and prove his masculinity - and the worst part is, it works :)

 

 

@ADB, I'm sure you write some nice books and take pride in your work. Sad to say, I haven't read them, and my impression of BL books have been ruined by the few bad apples - just my luck that these were the ones I picked :)

[Chengar Qordath]

I have to agree with you that characters have friends, family, acquaintances and even !gasp! sexual tension makes them seem more like human beings and a bit less like, well, pretend little plastic men on a table.

Problem is, when it comes to Space Marines a lot of those things don't apply, at least not in the way we'd think of them. Not to say that Space Marines can't have depth and character interaction, it's just that they have a different perspective on the world than a normal human being, and part of that comes from having the standard bonds of friends/family replaced with loyalty to the Emperor and their Chapter. Not to mention the ongoing lore-snarl of whether Marines are even interested in sex, or if that gets removed/repressed in the process of making an Astartes (And They Shall No Know Fear ... or Arousal).

 

It's tricky to write Marines that are human enough for the audience to relate to, but inhuman enough to match the lore.

[A D-B]

If you walk into your local GW today, have a look around at the customers, this is BL's main target audience.

 

10 years ago, maybe. A very, very small percentage of my sales are from GW stores.

 

I don't write for kids. I just write, and occasionally my editors will sanitise one or two things in a novel with the knowledge kids will read it.

 

But BL selling primarily through GW stores is something long since banished to the past. Most sci-fi authors would kill for BL book sales.

 

@ADB, I'm sure you write some nice books and take pride in your work. Sad to say, I haven't read them, and my impression of BL books have been ruined by the few bad apples - just my luck that these were the ones I picked :)

 

Dude, no harm and no foul. I generalise way worse than you did, as a matter of routine. Besides, I'm a subscriber to Sturgeon's Law. "90% of everything is crud."

[Wade Garrett]

Back on topic. I don't think anyone called for drivelling porn or anything raunchy at all. I just (meant to) say that if you have to make good pulp lit, then you have to follow the conventions of the genre, and that includes using every cheap parlor trick in the book. Just look at your run-of-the-mill Hollywood action production, at some point that BA action hero will "nail" the female lead, whose role serves no other purpose than being a "powerup" for the hero and prove his masculinity - and the worst part is, it works :)

 

 

Well, I'm certainly not suggesting we give Pat Robertson and Jimmy Swaggart editorial powers at BL so they can save our children from the smut. I just think that a blanket rule of "All pulp stories need some sexy teasing" is a bit too much. You mentioned Robert E. Howard...his Solomon Kane stories are definitely great pulp literature, but contain almost no sex at all. Mainly because the main character is a fanatical Puritan swordsman and has a moral code that is very different from, say, Conan.

And I can think of some good action movies that don't have much of a sensual element either: Die Hard, the original Assault on Precinct 13, The Dark Knight, etc.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that whether or not any fiction of any genre should have sex stuff in it should depend on the characters, plot, and setting, not follow an iron clad rule of "All good pulp lit has sex scenes".

 

P.S.

But Draigo knew their deaths were a mercy, for in spite of all the joy he had brought them, forever after they would have to live with the endless pain of knowing that they could never be Ultramarines.

[Aqui]

Besides that there is our very own Lady_Canoness's Inquisition series here on B&C (in the Short Stories section).

 

+1 :ermm:

[The Holy Heretic]

@Wade Garrett.

 

Of course every. Every rule is meant to be broken. But you're not quite right about Soloman Kane though. Sex is an issue there, its just that our hero already has partaken in orgies that would make Slaanesh blush and is now trying to redeem himself. So its an issue there too - as said, you don't need the 'Horus does Harry Potter' explitive fanfictasies, but you need the tension :ermm:

 

- and thanks for correcting my Wardian fiction. You so easily forget that the only thing more pure than the purifiers are the boys in blue. We all just want to march for Macragge (hmm.. "My crack..", I feel embarrassed for not having seen that one before) :P

[Wade Garrett]

Heretic, do you have a source on Kane being a repentant....not sure what the correct noun is for "person who engaged in wild orgies"? I ask because I was flipping through my anthologies The Savage Tales of Solomon Kane and The Horror Stories of Robert Howard to make sure I wasn't making a fool of myself in my earlier post, and the only bodice ripping stuff I could find was in Moon of Skulls, where he is offered a position as warlord by a topless jungle queen, but turns her down (in every sense. He is tempted, though). There's a lot of chest thumping about the fighting fury of the Anglo Saxon race, but nothing about Kane as a former member of the Hellfire Club.

 

Can you point me to a particular story because this would add a whole new aspect to his characterization.

[Olis]

...easily forget that the only thing more pure than the purifiers are the boys in blue.

 

I think CMID could disagree with the wording of that. :)

[Dosjetka]

I think CMID could disagree with the wording of that. :D

It's a good thing he's not around then, as he'd throw a right tantrum :)

 

Ludovic

[RolandTHTG]

Sandy Mitchell's runs at the Inquisition are damn good too.

Innocence Proves Nothing and Scourge The Heretic.

Both very funny (if you dig alot of geeky, dry, humour) and are good storys. No real liberties taken with fluff either. Which is nice.

So, you know, give 'em a bash.

Though, infairness, I've been a Mitchell fanboy since the planet called Simia Orichale. Which is the best 40k joke* ever. And made me wee alittle bit.

 

 

*important word left out. Blame cold. Damn cold.

+1 on the Mitchel Inquisition stories. The fact that they are henchmen-focused may be off-puting to some (written to help flesh out the dark heresy RPG) but he's the same guy that wrote the Caiphas Cain, and spins a good yarn. For those wanting some 'sex' there's an interesting attraction subplot between two of the main characters.

[The Holy Heretic]

Can you point me to a particular story because this would add a whole new aspect to his characterization.

 

I admit my knowledge of Kane is limited to the 2009 movie, which depicts him as an amoral brigand (that comes with orgies, doesn't it?) turned puritan after a brief encounter with an evil demon. :D

[Lady_Canoness]

Besides that there is our very own Lady_Canoness's Inquisition series here on B&C (in the Short Stories section).

 

+1 :)

 

:D

 

On topic, I was not a fan of the Ravenor novels, though the Esinhorn series was quite good. Other than that, the best depictions of the Inquisition will often come from non-Inquisition novels, I find.

[Demus Ragnok]

Resently finished the Eisenhorn trilogy, excellent stuff. And as I remember it there was some "relationship" stuff tastefully thrown in along the way.

 

I have also been following Lady_Canoness' work and it gets my recommendation as well.

[MordentHex]

On the good note, I just picked up the Eisnhorn trilogy and it has started out great, I really like the 1st person view. Now dont ruin it for me, but what did the rest of you think of Eisnhorn?

I loved it and it continues to be one of my top favorites. Ravenor i expected more from and although it was fun to see alot of the characters develope I never liked it as much. With a new Ravenor book coming tracking down Eisnhorn it should be an interesting read, although i dont see how Ravenor honestly stands a chance against his mentor. Eisnhorn is one guy in 40k I would stay well clear of. He may be old and beat up but he still knows how to put major foot to butt.

[Chain Axe]

@ MordentHex- Thats's good to know, I was thinking of getting that for my lads, it looks like a good long beefy story to get into. I would like to know what the rest thought of it too.

 

@ Amadeus Baal- You hit the nail right on the head there mate. Apart from games mags these books are the only things my lads read, they do them a world of good they even sneakily look up words they don't know. With it harder to get jobs these days anything that gets them away from text spelling is good in my book. I don't mean to come across as an old fart just a parent and now a gamer :D . Same with the relationships stuff too, from what I have read so far, I agree with you, the balance seems about right as you put it and I would be sad to see my two unable to get a book because it had sex in it. Do you play games with your kids or read with them?

[Oiad]

Yeesh, this thread passed by quickly. Sorry to derail the topic for second...

 

@ADB, I'm sure you write some nice books and take pride in your work. Sad to say, I haven't read them, and my impression of BL books have been ruined by the few bad apples - just my luck that these were the ones I picked :)

Dude, no harm and no foul. I generalise way worse than you did, as a matter of routine. Besides, I'm a subscriber to Sturgeon's Law. "90% of everything is crud."

Ya know HH, I use to think that way you did about BL stuff but perhaps the best way of approaching at them is how you would do so with a modern Hollywood blockbuster - You don't go in expecting it to revolutionise the medium but if you're looking for some time to burn and/or you're in the right frame-of-mind for it you'll be sure get some quick-fire kicks from the otherworldly escapism it temporarily offers and the action-based spectacle it aims to deliver.

 

With that approach in mind you may find them more amicable. It'll at least give you the chance to read some of A D-B's output... :)