Zynk Kaladin Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 My Blood Angel brothers, Sanguinius is going to have to paint buckets of tears on his face, because this Night Angel defeat was pretty terrible. So I had a pretty crushing defeat recently and it left a sour taste in my mouth... Basically I tried a Descent of Angels type list against my friend's Imperial Guard Armored Company. My list consisted of 6 assault squads (meltaguns/meltabombs), 2 librarians with Blood Lance and Shield, 2 vanilla Furiosos, 3 land speeders (MM/HF), and a 5 man Death Company with a thunderhammer. His list was 1 executioner, 2 Leman Russ main battle tanks (1 with lascannon, another with heavy flamer), a demolisher with a lascannon, 3 chimeras with 2 melta veteran squads and 1 plasma veteran squad. He also had a master of the fleet with added 1 to my deep strike roll, which was quite a surprise. So, I start first turn. I have all 3 landspeeders on the with my footslogging death company at my deployment. He has a pretty tight deployment, everything is within 7 or 8" of each other with cover mixed in between where the tanks are not close to each other. Both my dreadnoughts and 2 assault squads (1 with an attached librarian) manage to deep strike first turn. I place the librarian attached assault squad in an opening amongst his vehicles... his unit scatters within 1" of an enemy tank and die. My other assault squad lands fine in a safer area infront of one of his main battle tanks. Dready A lands fine in front of a chimera. Dready B scatters into a crater, roll a misshap of 4, he gets put across the table onto my edge. I turboboost my land speeders up in front of his mass of vehicles, hoping the cover save will be enough to survive 1 turn. I don't hurt anything that turn... His turn wipes my assault squad, dreadnought, and landspeeders off the map (they lived, but couldn't do jack next turn)... The rest of the game is me dropping the rest of my army behind cover and holding out as best I can. It didn't go too well (cursed dice rolls)... I have been told the best way to strike Guard tanks is to assault them. So I tried after failing to do damage with meltaguns... BUT they move at combat speed so I have a 50% chance of hurting them with meltabombs. I only managed to wreck 2 veteran squad's chimeras and assault the meaty parts inside. Oh icing on this cake, my 2nd librarian's head exploded. WTH? My friend was a good sport and allowed him to live... then die next turn... ...I need help from square 1 all the way to actually playing the game. I hope you guys can help me through The first is developing a balanced, preferably competitive, list that I can enjoy. My buddy and I are not to good at remembering or understanding all the rules so I also need a bit of help with understanding certain rules that may be beneficial to Blood Angels. Lastly, how do I not get shot to high heavens while dealing serious damage back? Where do I start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 then die next turn... Due to a demolisher cannon :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealadin Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 If you are DoA don't you start rolling for reserves turn 2? (What mission are you playing?) Also how are your dreads DSing? With Pods? Should be pretty accurate. Maybe consider a grapple to go with the melta for a double tap on tanks upon landing. Don't put an expensive squad in the position of a bad scatter destroying it. Your list isn't bad, but no Dev support makes it more challenging, maybe consider adding some? If you DoA in you want to do so in a way that safely lets you get some melta shots off against this kind of list. If you DoA infront of pie plates that instant kill your squad then you'll lose. Do you also have no sanguinary priests? The DC aren't really good, so maybe try those points elsewhere? They can work but need a list built around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 If you are DoA don't you start rolling for reserves turn 2? (What mission are you playing?)Also how are your dreads DSing? With Pods? Should be pretty accurate. Maybe consider a grapple to go with the melta for a double tap on tanks upon landing. Reserves only come on turn 2? *checks rulebook* woops... If I do decide to run dreads again I'll try that. I'm still pretty new with BAs so I'm pretty unfamiliar with their tactics. Don't put an expensive squad in the position of a bad scatter destroying it. Where should I put them then? I really had no good place to put them... I know the best place for melta-toting squads is about 7" away from a tank, but the only safe places would have only gotten me front armor shots. Should I have put them in cover in the middle of the map instead of going directly for their mass of tanks? Your list isn't bad, but no Dev support makes it more challenging, maybe consider adding some? I've heard that trying to outshoot a guard list is a bad idea. But i guess a little dev support wouldn't be too bad in moderation. If you DoA in you want to do so in a way that safely lets you get some melta shots off against this kind of list. If you DoA infront of pie plates that instant kill your squad then you'll lose. So I should fly in amongst the terrain in the middle of the map and let the tanks come to me? How do I reach them if they just chill back or do I just ignore them and go for objectives? What are some general tactics or cool ideas when deep striking? What about a non deep-striking list? Do you also have no sanguinary priests? My 1000 point list has 2 sanguinary priests, 1 librarian, and 3 10 man assault squads with 2 meltaguns each, two have power fists, and 1 has a power sword. Honestly, this list wan't really well thought out :) The DC aren't really good, so maybe try those points elsewhere? They can work but need a list built around them. I honestly have no clue how to run DC. I'd appreciate it if anyone would explain how to use them just for my edification. EDIT: Nvm, I found a pretty good analysis of DC by Snorri Thanks, man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealadin Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 DC are really hard and generally need a delivery system. Ie LR or SR. Don't come down too far away, they won't come to you they'll just shoot you to death. 6-7" scatter means you should be able to make a gamble for getting 2d6 melta, while still remaining within normal shooting range if you scatter in the wrong way. Also a perfect range for blood lance. Front armour is fine if you don't have a choice. You need to be really good at guessing your scatter distances and where you want to drop. With a 6" scatter you basically have about a 12" range you could come down in, plus maybe a base width or two. You can't really outshoot guard, but Devs are good versus light vehicles, and can suppress heavier vehicles, if guard can't shoot their big tanks then your devs are doing a good job. Even if they are diverting fire to devs (preferably in cover) then you are not taking as much fire into assault squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdezFurioso Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I run a mainly hybrid Blood Angel list that is mech heavy(but not quite considered mech) and I have outshot IG parking lot(1000 pts) quite a few times. So it is possible =D Death Company need to be dropped in from a Stormraven for maximum effectiveness. Otherwise they aren't really worth it unless they travel across the board in a transport tank. When you are deep striking the assault squads remember they can travel 12 inches once they are able to move, so putting them farther away(behind cover or near the middle) is a viable strategy. For instance if you have some dev squads to give your men covering fire you can drop them near the middle of the map and let the Devs deal with any tanks that move around to get a good shot on them. The next turn not only can they travel 12" and shoot, but they can also assault a tank, so your effective threat range is 24" from the drop zone for shooting and 18" if you want to assault a tank. You have quite a bit of room to work with. BTW, one of the ways you can hurt the big tanks in the back is with a little commander known as Dante =D. If you attach him to an honor guard and give them meltaguns you can drop the whole squad with pinpoint precision behind one of his main battle tanks and blow it up on the first turn. Hopefully only wreck it though. That way you can use it for cover. Remember the HG comes with a sanguinary novitiate that allows his squad to have FNP against most non-pie template fire. That strategy with dante has worked for me quite a bit. Remember to use his Death Mask of Sanguinius at the start of the match and that he has a master crafted power weapon =D. The Infernus pistol is quite helpful as well as another melta source on top of the HG squad. That whole unit will run you about 440 points, but it is a garunteed tank kill, good chance of a second. That alone prevents a lot of damage he could have done to your other squads dropping in. And remember that unit will have jump packs as well for that 24" shooting threat range and the 18" assault threat range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 When you are deep striking the assault squads remember they can travel 12 inches once they are able to move, so putting them farther away(behind cover or near the middle) is a viable strategy. For instance if you have some dev squads to give your men covering fire you can drop them near the middle of the map and let the Devs deal with any tanks that move around to get a good shot on them. The next turn not only can they travel 12" and shoot, but they can also assault a tank, so your effective threat range is 24" from the drop zone for shooting and 18" if you want to assault a tank. You have quite a bit of room to work with. You know, with my very effective 20-20 hindsight I should have deep striked my assault squads into cover and THEN moved them towards the tanks like you said (/duh). My only concern, though, is if he moves his tanks 6" I wont be able to meltabomb them :) Maybe I should rely more on meltaguns than the meltabombs? BTW, one of the ways you can hurt the big tanks in the back is with a little commander known as Dante =D. If you attach him to an honor guard and give them meltaguns you can drop the whole squad with pinpoint precision behind one of his main battle tanks and blow it up on the first turn. Hopefully only wreck it though. That way you can use it for cover. Remember the HG comes with a sanguinary novitiate that allows his squad to have FNP against most non-pie template fire. That strategy with dante has worked for me quite a bit. Remember to use his Death Mask of Sanguinius at the start of the match and that he has a master crafted power weapon =D. The Infernus pistol is quite helpful as well as another melta source on top of the HG squad. That whole unit will run you about 440 points, but it is a garunteed tank kill, good chance of a second. That alone prevents a lot of damage he could have done to your other squads dropping in. And remember that unit will have jump packs as well for that 24" shooting threat range and the 18" assault threat range. Oooh, this seems interesting. I've been meaning to make a winged Chapter Master for my chapter. I could proxy him as Dante and try this. It seems like a 1 trick pony against my friend, though. He'll just go to his Guard buddies at the IGMB forum and look for ways to counter it... and thus the cycle shall continue... :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 My Blood Angel brothers, Sanguinius is going to have to paint buckets of tears on his face, because this Night Angel defeat was pretty terrible. So I had a pretty crushing defeat recently and it left a sour taste in my mouth... Basically I tried a Descent of Angels type list against my friend's Imperial Guard Armored Company. My list consisted of 6 assault squads (meltaguns/meltabombs), 2 librarians with Blood Lance and Shield, 2 vanilla Furiosos, 3 land speeders (MM/HF), and a 5 man Death Company with a thunderhammer. His list was 1 executioner, 2 Leman Russ main battle tanks (1 with lascannon, another with heavy flamer), a demolisher with a lascannon, 3 chimeras with 2 melta veteran squads and 1 plasma veteran squad. He also had a master of the fleet with added 1 to my deep strike roll, which was quite a surprise. I'd drop the DC immediately or get them a transport such as a SR/LR. Since your list is more a DoA kind, go with the SR and put it in reserve. The two Vanilla Furiosos, how are they equipped? You should add a MG or else they are quite useless on the turn they land. The master of the fleet is a little disturbance, but you can choose to re-roll failed reserve rolls, so...this could play into your hands. It is better to drop all your units on the third turn rather have on or two on second turn where they get shot to bits. You are fielding 6 10 men squads, I assume? I'd go with a Powerfists instead of the Meltabomb! So, I start first turn. I have all 3 landspeeders on the with my footslogging death company at my deployment. He has a pretty tight deployment, everything is within 7 or 8" of each other with cover mixed in between where the tanks are not close to each other. Both my dreadnoughts and 2 assault squads (1 with an attached librarian) manage to deep strike first turn. I place the librarian attached assault squad in an opening amongst his vehicles... his unit scatters within 1" of an enemy tank and die. My other assault squad lands fine in a safer area infront of one of his main battle tanks. Dready A lands fine in front of a chimera. Dready B scatters into a crater, roll a misshap of 4, he gets put across the table onto my edge. First, how do you deepstrike your Dreads? Since the only way to do so is via Drop Pod, he wouldn't have to roll for misshap when deepstruck into difficult terrain. It's best to place the Pod directly on your opponent's models since a Pod reduces the distance until you are able to place it on the table. Then, as already mentioned, you don't deepstrike first turn unless you have a Drop Pod, and the Drop Pod assault rule forces you to choose the half of your pods that will automatically arrive first turn. So that means you have one Furioso on the table turn one. I'd suggest reading over the rules for Deepstrike and drop Pods again, matey! Oh, and Descent of Angels as well, not sure how fit you are there. :) I turboboost my land speeders up in front of his mass of vehicles, hoping the cover save will be enough to survive 1 turn. I don't hurt anything that turn... His turn wipes my assault squad, dreadnought, and landspeeders off the map (they lived, but couldn't do jack next turn)... The rest of the game is me dropping the rest of my army behind cover and holding out as best I can. It didn't go too well (cursed dice rolls)... I have been told the best way to strike Guard tanks is to assault them. So I tried after failing to do damage with meltaguns... BUT they move at combat speed so I have a 50% chance of hurting them with meltabombs. I only managed to wreck 2 veteran squad's chimeras and assault the meaty parts inside. Oh icing on this cake, my 2nd librarian's head exploded. WTH? My friend was a good sport and allowed him to live... then die next turn... I'd say this is 50% luck and 50% non-efficient strategy on your part. I don't want to seem harsh, that's simply a fact, and you admitted that your experience is quite limited, so: Don't turboboost your Landspeeders in front of his vehicles. :angry: They gain a coversave, certainly, but that won't save them from massed Heavy Bolter/Lascannon or even Flamer fire. They die like flies. It's better to boost into cover, even better yet into cover that shields them from view(negating True line of Sight). Next turn, move 12" and fire their MM. Or Deepstrike them as well. IG tanks are good to get in close combat, but not if you only have Meltabombs! Add a Powerfist to each and every Assault squad Sergeant and try again. :( However you are better off shooting the tanks with your Meltaguns and assault the insides. For your Libbies, I'd get rid of Blood Lance and try Sword of Sanguinius. If you manage to get into close combat, S10 against their rear armour hurts. A lot. ...I need help from square 1 all the way to actually playing the game. I hope you guys can help me through The first is developing a balanced, preferably competitive, list that I can enjoy. My buddy and I are not to good at remembering or understanding all the rules so I also need a bit of help with understanding certain rules that may be beneficial to Blood Angels. Lastly, how do I not get shot to high heavens while dealing serious damage back? Where do I start? Well, from turn 1 you say? Alright, I'd try to break it down quickly. Turn 1: You don't deploy anything. ANYTHING! That's your advantage. You don't have to deploy anything and your opponent can't shoot at anything. Your Furioso drops via Drop Pod. You can now decide either to attempt to destroy a tank or drop him safely into cover where he won't get shot immediately. Remember that you can still run in the shooting phase! Turn 2: Some of your units will arrive, and since you only have Assault squads, it doesn't matter which units that are. What is important is the Libbies. They give you some protection in your enemies shooting phase(Shield) and allow you to drop right before a battletank and blow it up(Remember the Descent of Angels rule!) The Furioso will, if he survived, be able to move forward, meltagun something and hopefully attack(S10/4 Attacks). Can't get any better than that. You can either reserve the Landspeeders so they are able to boost 24" the turn they arrive or deepstrike them and hope for the best. If I am not mistaken, they are allowed to shoot? Not sure though, better go safely and reserve them. That way you can see if they arrive from second turn and get yourself a coversave immediately. If everything works well, you have one or two squads and 2-4 Meltaguns in front of his tanks. Show no mercy, destroy the battletanks first, they are the biggest threat. The veterans are not nice, but they are a minor threat compared to the blazing guns of the Leman Russ'. Turn 3: More of your units will arrive. Same procedure as last turn: deepstrike them into advantageous positions from where you can negate front armour(or even side armour, right in the rear!) to make it easier to penetrate their armour value. You have the speed on your side, so use it! If your troops survived last turn, get behind his tanks and shoot again, only to assault what's left. Turn 4: Same as turn 3. Your list features only assault squads as their main element, so you should concentrate on how to use them to deal maximum damage. What points level are you playing, btw? Assuming that you field 6 Assault squads with 10 men, 2 Furiosos with Drop Pods and three Landspeeders(which you should equip with MM only) we are talking over 2000 points. If your assault squads don't consist of 10 men, they are not able to buy 2 Meltaguns, so keep that in mind. ;) Maybe you should drop the Furiosos(or only one), one Libby and get yourself Dante. Great character for a DoA army. Hope that helps! Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnaeph34rn473 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I play a DoA list as well, so I'll toss out a few suggestions. Without knowing what points limit you're playing at, I'm guessing 2000-2500, estimating from your list anyways, six assault squads is too many in my opinion. I'm assuming they're 10 man of course. I'd drop at least one, perhaps two, and use the points free'd up for a bit more versatility in your list. In general, but especially against guard, it is very helpful if all your assault squads have 2 melta-guns and a PF. That's a general outfitting that serves well in lots of situations, but even more so against heavy armor. I find melta-bombs to be unreliable at best, a waste of points at worst. I'll take a melta-gun any day over a bomb. A foot-slogging death company does not mesh well with your list. They're going to spend a few turns simply walking across the board, and then blasted off it when they get close enough to do something. Your list is fast and mobile, foot slogging DC aren't, nor do they bring any long range firepower to the table. Consider dropping the speeders for multi-melta attack bikes instead. Speeders are popped pretty easily with only AV10. The bikes have 2 wounds so they can soak up a bit more damage before going down. Not to mention you can still pull turbo-boosting cover tricks with the bikes, just like you can with the land-speeders. I think this has already been pointed out, but you can't start rolling for reserves until turn two. Also, remember that with DoA you not only scatter only 1d6, but you can also re-roll failed deployment rolls. Combined with his master of the fleet or whatever it was, you honestly should get most, if not all of your DSing units on the board turn two. You can of course choose not to re-roll if you'd rather have some come on later. DSing effectively takes a few games to get the hang of, but in general, if there is an empty spot to DS next to a heavy tank that is going to tear you a new one, make use of your smaller scatter foot-print and get some melta in there. Honor guard are great for this. A five man squad that comes standard with a priest, and able to carry four melta guns is incredibly useful in a DS list. It's basically a guaranteed armor killer on the turn you land. Dante is wonderful for jump/DoA lists. His ability to deep-strike exactly where he wants along with his unit is golden for squeezing into tight spaces to pop armor. Also, his debuff to an enemy independent character is very useful. I'm not a huge fan of blood-lance on my librarians. I understand it has it's merits against parking lot lists, however it's never worked fantastically for me(crappy rolls when using it). I prefer to take either rage or sword, if you're playing guard definitely sword, with my librarians. Four S10 attacks on the charge combined with the PF from whatever squad the librarian is running with basically ensures an enemy vehicle dies every assault. Once again though, this is just personal preference. Anyways, I know those were just a bunch of disjointed points, but as for your list. I'd consider dropping two assault squads, and with those points add an honor guard and a vanguard veteran squad. The ability to DS and charge on the same turn with the veterans is very valuable to a DoA army, since you can tie up a nasty unit that might otherwise wreak havoc on your other troops while they DS in. I'd get rid of the death company and upgrade one of your librarians to Dante. I also don't really think that dreads work very well in a DoA list, since they have to use drop-pods, that means one of them at least is coming in on turn one, and without other targets on the board, is just going to get blasted off the board before it really does anything. I'd drop the dreads and land-speeders personally, and consider adding either several attack bikes with multi-meltas, or a couple of devastator squads with missile launchers. I prefer the attack bikes, but many people like the devastators as long range support. The attack bikes do allow you to turbo-boost up the board though, and provide cover for landing troops while still getting a 3+ cover save themselves. Also, with that many bodies on the board, get some priests! I can't stress that enough, the honor guard will come with one, but I'd consider adding at least two more mixed in with assault squads. The ability to basically ignore small arms fire can't be over-stated. Lastly, I know you run this list DoA style, but remember, you don't always have to DS everything. Many times it's more beneficial to deploy on the board, and give your opponent lots of targets jumping up behind cover, as opposed to simply starting with a very small number of units on the board that he or she can blast off turn one, and then simply be waiting for you to land with the remainder of your force and kill them off as they drop in. I usually only keep my veterans, honor guard, and whatever unit Dante is with in reserve when I play. I deploy everything else as close as possible to mid-field(generally), so it will only take one turn of jumping behind cover to cross the remaining space, and assault the following turn. Getting turn two assaults helps in a few ways. First y deploying most of my forces as stated earlier, I don't just trickle in and allow my opponent to focus on my units one or two at a time as they come in and basically control the flow of the game. Secondly, if you can get most of your units in assault on turn two they can't be shot at, also they will tie up units that otherwise would be shooting at your DSing units that are going to start dropping. The more units you have assaulting vehicles and infantry the safer the units you did keep in reserve are going to be when they drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hey all, I'm the guard player that Zynk played against last night. I snapped a few pictures also, so here is what he's talking about when he had no where to DS. http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r165/Zeke48/IMG_0438.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdezFurioso Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 That table is tiny! lol. Pull that net down and use the whole length of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnaeph34rn473 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I agree, use the whole table! Honestly though I see several places he could have dropped some troops either into cover behind the colorful barriers in front of your tanks or into the couple holes between or behind the tanks. Although I'm fairly aggressive with my DSing units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 6 Assault Squads and 1 Death Co. is too many troops :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Baal Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hmmm yea I agree with pretty much everything that has been written above. That table has some hugely tall Los blocking terrain, you could DS or walk your army right up to them, then stepping stone your way through cover right into him. Dante would have a field day dropped close to those tightly packed tanks where his large templates would become their own worst enemy. You could add a few out flanking scouts or scout bikers and they could cause some serious damage to to all those closely packed vehicles. I must admit luck wasn't on your side, let us know how the rematch goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdezFurioso Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 List Idea, think about it =D Don't know what you point total is, but I will get it close to 2000 This list runs at 2035, and looks good for what you are fighting. I tried to stick as close to the DoA theme as possible. Most of the stuff is designed to be risked. Remember the Blood Angels jump packs can re-roll the deep strike die and only scatter on 1D6, not 2D6! 2 HQs 3 Heavy 4 Troops 2 Fast Attack 1 Elite HQ 440 total(full meltaguns and jump packs, comes with Feel no Pain in the HG squad) Commander Dante Honor Guard Some heavy 140 total 1 Dreadnaught in drop Pod(plain) Troop HQ 280 total Assault squad, 1 meltagun, 1 infernus pistol on sgt., meltabombs on sgt. Librarian with Jump pack, Blood Lance, and Shield of Sanguinius Troop 130 total Assault Squad, 1 meltagun, 1 infernus pistol on sgt., meltabombs on sgt. troop 130 total Assault squad, 1 meltagun, 1 infernus pistol on sgt., meltabombs on sgt. Heavy Heavy and Troop 505 total Stormraven(Do not Deep Strike!) with multimelta and twinlinked lascannons Dreadnought(plain) being transported in it Death Company with 3 bought men and 2 powerfists carried in the stormraven Some nice distraction and potential harm to your opponents! (DESIGNED TO DISTRACT AND DIE! but keep safe on turn 1, risk them the turn you drop your troops with deep strike!) Fast attack total 100 2 Attack bikes with multimeltas(you can move 12 and still shoot 24 inch range meltaguns(or 12 inches to get melta active!)) Fast Attack total 100 2 Attack bikes with multimeltas Elite Total 210 Dreadnought Furioso !Librarian! Blood Lance! Shield of Sanguinius! Drop Pod! Very fun unit, a little expensive, but totally worth the surprise especially if it is able to make it through multiple tanks with the lance. If he keeps running big parking lots like this it could work out well. I would drop the regular podded dreadnought first and drop the librarian furioso when you drop dante and rush in with the attack bikes. Remember to use your shields! It can save you from those nasty pie templates and the Splat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfeild32 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 should of dropped into the craters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Sorry - got to say that thats a horrendous board terrain set-up. a 12" terrain free zone just in front of the IG deployment zone, with enough room that he can sit back and get a guaranteed roudn of shooting at anything that tries to move across it (since there's no way anythig can cross it to attack him in 1 round... Turkey Shoot. Just looking at the board - the OP should probably have deployed normally on the board, run up behind the nice solid LOS-blocking walls and then popped the Speeders over to try and slag a russ or 2 on 1 flank, while sending his whole army across at the same time. Best chance of getting some thru into combat. OP- dont forget that you strike rear armour in CC against vehicles that arent walkers so even your Krak grenades will penetrate on a 4+ just about anything not a Demolisher hull... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 I failed to mention this, but it was a 1500 point game. I had 6 squads of 5 RAS with 1 meltagun and meltabombs each. I won't run this ever again, opting for my favored 3x10 RAS with duel meltaguns and powerfist. Seriously, I don't know why I deviated from 3xRAS... I also usually run 2 sanguinary priests, but I got confused over the Feel No Pain special rule. The rules states "this ability cannot be used against wounds from weapons that cause instant death (by having a high enough strength...)". Did I assume falsely that this applies to Russ battle cannons because they have x2 marine toughness, thus not granting FNP? I'm confused... :P @SnorriSnorrison Just for my edification, what do powerfists offer me over meltabombs? Aren't meltabombs cheaper? See I tried something like what you explained in your turn 2 example, but it was not very effective in this instance. I placed a librarian squad to the left of the black primed Russ, between it and the executioner, and behind the grey chimera. It was miraculous that they even got to deploy with the 5+ roll (due to my enemies master of the fleet) even with rerolls. Unfortunately, the scattered towards the black Russ, misshaped, and I lost the whole squad. My other RAS squad landed just above the crater closest to the blue demolisher. They landed right in front of the topmost Russ, failed to damage it, and got blown to hell in a hand basket on Zeke's turn. The next turn I decided to apply an ounce of thought! I deep striked behind the walls, waited, then moved in for the kill. I managed to get my other librarian squad to get some nice side armor shots against a Russ on the far side of the table. However, luck was not on my side... his head exploded and the unit suffered the salvos of Russy retribution the next turn. I had another unit meant to pop the far side chimera, but they failed. I popped the 2 chimeras on the near side of the table and assaulted the squishy bits inside, though... I even managed slay their freaking master of the fleet! All in all, imho, I really had no advantages places to deep strike on top of his head. If my angels got close he would move his tanks at combat speed which really hurt my chances of doing damage in CC. Gah, I think I just need to actually watch an experienced BA player and learn how to play. Thanks for the help, though! @Dunnaeph34rn473 Ok, so it looks like meltabombs are a no no. Also, the footslogging DC was a terrible mistake, and I see that now. I don't like the aesthetics of the multi-melta bikes. Even though it "unfluffy" I prefer jetbikes, so I need to work on a conversion for those. It's been on the list of things for me to do for a while... Master of the fleet really DID screw me. I only got 2 RAS squads out of 6 on the field first turn (was supposed to be 2nd turn, but as informed I was doing reserves wrong)... and one of those units fell into the ocean, lol. I will try Dante, x4 melta honorguard, and possibly vanguard next time, though. Thanks for the advice! @ArdezFurioso We have never played on a legit table, though it is on the list of things to get done. We're also unsure of the proper amount of cover, deployment, etc. Seriously, we should probably walk into a GW and ask how to play turn-by-turn from pre-game to post-game, lol. That's a pretty cool list, but unfortunately I don't have a Raven (ooh baby do I want one), MM bikes (on the list of things to do) or libby dread. I definitely had success so far with my 1000 point list: +1 Libby (Lance, Shield, JP) +1 SangP (JP) +1 SangP (JP) +10 RAS (x2 melta, PF) +10 RAS (x2 melta, PF) +10 RAS (x2 melta, PF) My dream list is this with a x4 melta honor guard squad. For a 1500 point list I will add the honor guard, maybe Dante, and drop a Sanguinary Priest. I would also love some sanguinary guard, but I don't think they're good at hunting metal boxes :( @redfeild32 ...I can drop in craters and not misshap??? By Sanguinius's royal buttocks! EDIT: @Leonaides Yea, in hindsight I really should have played that way. I don't know why I got caught up with dropping on his head. Also, I forgot about the krak grenades. Damn... I need to write this stuff down until I memorize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdezFurioso Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Just an idea that might help you out: Assault Squads have a neat little ability called 'Combat Squads' where you can break the squad of ten into 2 squads of 5 each upon landing. Not only does this allow you to select a different target with each melta gun but you can also send them off in other directions and take a separate morale check for each when you take casualties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Just an idea that might help you out: Assault Squads have a neat little ability called 'Combat Squads' where you can break the squad of ten into 2 squads of 5 each upon landing. Not only does this allow you to select a different target with each melta gun but you can also send them off in other directions and take a separate morale check for each when you take casualties. I don't know why I assumed only the vanilla dex could combat squad... the rule is right there next to Descent of Angels! This is very good to know, and will be very helpful for future plans. The honor of Sanguinius demands slagged metal boxes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnaeph34rn473 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 You are correct, a marine won't get a FNP save from a S8 shot like a Leman Russ battle cannon, however guard field plenty of other guns that you can FNP against. Also keep in mind Sanguinary Priests also grant furious charge which is just as effective against tanks because it increases your strength by one on the charge. Most tanks have rear armor 10 or 11, and you always strike against the rear armor in melee. So without priests standard assault marines need to roll 6's with normal attacks just to glance tanks with rear AV10 and can't hurt 11 at all unless they use one shot krak grenades. With FC though they now can glance AV11 on 6's and strike penetrating blows against AV10 on 6's while glancing on 5's. Making even normal chainsword assault marines effective armor hunters. Because with ~30 attacks from a 10 man squad on the charge you're going to roll some 5's and 6's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Because with ~30 attacks from a 10 man squad on the charge you're going to roll some 5's and 6's. Duly noted. Thanks! I'm planning a 1500 point list and so far I have 1335 points done. I'm not exactly sure what to spend the other 165 points on, but I'm leaning towards multi-melta bikes, as suggested, and maybe some infernus pistols. Here's what I have so far: +1 Dante +1 Libby (Lance/or/Sword, Shield, JP) [i'll give sword a whirl next time] +5 Honor Guard (x4 melta, Novitiate, JP) +1 SangP (JP) +10 RAS (x2 melta, PF) +10 RAS (x2 melta, PF) +10 RAS (x2 melta, PF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdezFurioso Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 165 pts? Run 3 squads of fast attack 1 Attack Bike with multimelta in each squad. =D 50 pts per squad. Run them down the map, hiding behind as much cover as possible. On turn 2 when Dante hopefully most everything drops you can rush them in for some nice multi-melta attack range. =D Then use the last 15 pts to throw the sangP a weapon or something like that =D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnaeph34rn473 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Because with ~30 attacks from a 10 man squad on the charge you're going to roll some 5's and 6's. Duly noted. Thanks! I'm planning a 1500 point list and so far I have 1335 points done. I'm not exactly sure what to spend the other 165 points on, but I'm leaning towards multi-melta bikes, as suggested, and maybe some infernus pistols. Here's what I have so far: +1 Dante +1 Libby (Lance/or/Sword, Shield, JP) [i'll give sword a whirl next time] +5 Honor Guard (x4 melta, Novitiate, JP) +1 SangP (JP) +10 RAS (x2 melta, PF) +10 RAS (x2 melta, PF) +10 RAS (x2 melta, PF) Looks like a solid list. I'd take the route you've already suggested, and what the above poster recommended. 3 MM attack bikes and a power weapon or lightning claw for the priest. That'd be exactly 165 points bringing you to an even 1500. Infernus pistols are a bit overpriced in my opinion. I'd rather have a power weapon or LC on some other character unless your list is just drastically lacking melta, which it's not. When you run that list I'd put one assault squad with Dante, and the honor guard in reserve. I'd deploy the rest normally. Dante comes with an infernus pistol and your RAS squads already have two melta guns, so you're basically looking at two guaranteed tanks dead when those two squads arrive. The honor guard have melta-guns so you only need to be within 6 inches for the melta effect, and since they only scatter 1d6, it's pretty easy to do. Dante adds his infernus pistol to the 2 melta-guns in one of the RAS giving you three melta attacks. An RAS squad is larger so usually more difficult to DS in tight spaces, but with Dante you can drop it wherever you want and make sure you're even within the 3 inch range for the melta effect on his infernus pistol. Land both squads relatively close to each other if you can, so Dante's squad also benefits from the SP with the honor guard. You basically deploy as close as possible to your opponent, and on turn one, utilize cover and move up the board as fast as possible, take what shots you can, but don't focus on shooting, focus on keeping your troops alive and in cover as much as possible. You'll take the full brunt of his shooting for one turn, which should be mitigated by cover saves and FNP when applicable. Turn two, you should be able to cover the rest of the distance or get damn close to assault. Your DSing honor guard and RAS with Dante should come down this turn close to each other in his parking lot and slag two tanks. They should also be relatively safe from return fire that could ignore FNP because he's going to be risking his own tanks if he uses big scatter pie plates on either of those squads with his other tanks in such close proximity. Fire your melta guns and multi-meltas with the other units that zipped up across the board, and assault anything if possible. If not possible remember even simply preventing a tank from shooting next turn is a win for you. You don't necessarily have to destroy his tanks, just keep them stunned until you can get close enough to crack them open and assault the juicy contents when applicable. It's pretty self-explanatory at this point. Just take stock of what he has, and make a threat priority list nullifying what's most dangerous to you first then carrying on. Let us know how the rematch goes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 How about cutting Dante (as you do not need his 0 DS rly in this build) while still having 165p spare and get 3x 4ML Dev squads instead. This gives you 9 BS 4 and 3 BS 5 S8 AP3 shots a turn, which makes it a 4.5+2.5 hits a turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.