Ammonius Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (snip)So, in theory, someone could get possessed by a few hundred Nurglings who have shrunk themselves down to the cellular level ... (snip) Cellular level possession, eh? Sounds a lot like a bacterial infection, only with daemons. Or Toxoplasmosis. Tiny parasites that may interfere with neurotransmitters vs. Tiny daemons that do the same thing with "magic"? I think we have a winner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Well, there was a short story that I know is the Let the Galaxy Burn omnibus where a Doom Eagle Apothecary was possessed by a Nurgle disease and the disease influenced him to infect all of the defenders with newer strains of the disease. And there are how many fluff-recorded instances of a Nurgle disease raising those it kills as a plague zombie? At the very least that is some sort of warp possession. So it actually isn't that far off from what is already established in the fluff. Except maybe it could be a survivor like Typhus where they house the disease, except the disease controls them instead of just living in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Yeah, Nurgle plagues are a bit of an exception. Â Well in our mythologies and religions people possessed by several demons were not some freaks punching themselves in a face, in fact they were strong and dangerous individuals. Why it could not apply for W40k? I hate idea of chaos servants and creatures not being able work together for greater evil and punching themselves in face for lols.I also disagree with jeske. All we know about chaos is how Imperium sees chaos and despite their religious nature they tend to rationalise things. In fact, jeske himself is defending irrational chaos: I fail to see logic in chaos factions fighting themselves while there is Imperium to destroy. Â ??? You fail to see logic in something as chaotic as the Warp having factions who fight each other? Â Get back to me when Humanity, Eldar, Orks, and 'Nids hitch together to fight Chaos. Oh yeah, that still hasn't happened either. While Chaos is more tightly knit than the Materium, it's not all good alliances either. Just think about all those super hero cartoons when a couple of the bad guys team up to beat up the good guy, it don't last long, does it? Same thing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 "He shall rise from the ashes of defeat. In his hand, he will wield a blade made of night that burns with the heat of the forge. He shall bend the servants of Chaos to his will. He will be their focus. He will take their hatred towards each other and direct towards those who fail to see the Glory that is Chaos. And when he dies everyone will run away and kill each other." Â The point is, when you think of Chaos and all of its myriad servants, the phrase "There can be only one." should spring to mind. Because that is the mentality of every servant. They will rise through treachery and strength and one day, they will be the leader of their own warband. And they will keep going until they attain the ultimate prize of apotheosis into Daemonhood. Of course at any point in time during this journey, they could either die or be turned into a spawn. Â EDIT: Minor spelling errors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Nurglings are small though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 But they are still daemons. They can actually rise through the ranks of daemons. I bring forth, the case of Ku'Gath! On page 17 in the Battle Missions and in the Codex: Chaos Daemons, it was stated that he used to be a Nurgling who sat one Nurgle's own shoulder until one day he fell in a vat of the greatest disease ever. He drank all of it until its power transformed him into a Great Unclean One whose sole desire is to recreate that perfect disease, even though his drinking the whole dang thing actually amused the Great Grandfather. Â And their smile size would make it perfect for the scenario I suggested as it would be easier for more of them to be able to live in a host who is strong enough to suppress them. Or a Nurgle Lord/Sorcerer who likes them as pets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 And their smile size would make it perfect for the scenario I suggested as it would be easier for more of them to be able to live in a host who is strong enough to suppress them. Or a Nurgle Lord/Sorcerer who likes them as pets. Â Oh, I didn't see all of this page! Whoops! Â But yes, I was agreeing that a multiple nurglings could possess them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Oh. Hahahaha well I guess we both missed each other's points. Hahaha :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Well in our mythologies and religions people possessed by several demons were not some freaks punching themselves in a face, in fact they were strong and dangerous individuals. Why it could not apply for W40k? because in most religions demons do not feed on each other . in w40k they do . that is why it is possible to have multiple demonic possession for christians or jews , while for w40k demons it would just end up with the strongest eating the weaker ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RapatoR Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 ??? You fail to see logic in something as chaotic as the Warp having factions who fight each other? Get back to me when Humanity, Eldar, Orks, and 'Nids hitch together to fight Chaos. Oh yeah, that still hasn't happened either. While Chaos is more tightly knit than the Materium, it's not all good alliances either. Just think about all those super hero cartoons when a couple of the bad guys team up to beat up the good guy, it don't last long, does it? Same thing here. Well, aim of all these fractions is not to take down Chaos and fractions who have such aim (humans and eldar) worked together on several occasions. But I think that for majority of CSMs is destruction of the Imperium a primary goal. I also disagree with: "It is always one strongest bad guy leading others." It is not always the case and yes it tends to end badly, but time is an important factor. WW2 anyone? I admit, everyone sees Hitler as a leading guy, but they are far from truth. Or what about manipulation? E.g. There was a grop of chimpanzees where alpha male was getting old but he managed to maintain his postion (well kind of), because there were two candidates for alpha male and he always sided with weaker chimp and he managed to be shadow leader of that group for pretty long time until it ended badly.  Not to mention it tends to end badly after primary goal was achieved, not before....  @jeske: can you tell me source for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Well, aim of all these fractions is not to take down Chaos and fractions who have such aim (humans and eldar) worked together on several occasions. But I think that for majority of CSMs is destruction of the Imperium a primary goal. Â Putting CSM in the same group as the rest of humanity would be pointless. They work for the Powers of the Warp, often specific factions of those Powers. Â I also disagree with: "It is always one strongest bad guy leading others." It is not always the case and yes it tends to end badly, but time is an important factor. WW2 anyone? I admit, everyone sees Hitler as a leading guy, but they are far from truth. Or what about manipulation? E.g. There was a grop of chimpanzees where alpha male was getting old but he managed to maintain his postion (well kind of), because there were two candidates for alpha male and he always sided with weaker chimp and he managed to be shadow leader of that group for pretty long time until it ended badly. Â Wait. Hunh? What? Why are we talking about the Strongest? There are different kinds of strength. Luthor is the perfect example of this. He has no power of his own, but he definitely is one of the most conniving and intelligent of any of the comic book villains to date. Â Not to mention it tends to end badly after primary goal was achieved, not before.... Â It happens when it happens. Not all betrayals wait until complete victory to be occuring, but when victory seems to have happened, and yes, they do end badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Here's the thing, define strongest? Physically or mentally? Most Chaos warriors will follow whoever they percieve to be the most powerful warlord. Sometimes, the true power is someone other than the one who leads them in a fight. They basically rides on the coat tails of someone else until they can surpass them. Power does not always refer to brute strength. Â EDIT: Sorry Kristoff, I was just able to send my reply an hour after I wrote due to this unfortunate thing called life so I didn't realize you had gotten to the point first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RapatoR Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Putting CSM in the same group as the rest of humanity would be pointless. They work for the Powers of the Warp, often specific factions of those Powers. Yes but what is a primary goal of most chaos factions? And concerning factions: They migt be leaderless or have more than one leader (just like every cult) and certainly have better relationship with some other factions than others, but I cant see faction having better relationship with Imperium than any other Chaos faction. Â Wait. Hunh? What? Why are we talking about the Strongest? There are different kinds of strength. Luthor is the perfect example of this. He has no power of his own, but he definitely is one of the most conniving and intelligent of any of the comic book villains to date. Yes there are different kinds of strength. What I was trying to tell, that there is not always most.... able guy who leads, there might be guy in background who is medicore in everything except manipulation, or there might be three guys who respect each other and noone claims leadership (Axis in WW2) and much much more possibilities.... Â Â It happens when it happens. Not all betrayals wait until complete victory to be occuring, but when victory seems to have happened, and yes, they do end badly. Well but it dont tends to happen for no reason whatsoever. Victory or near victory seems to be a key point and this is not state of chaos today for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Putting CSM in the same group as the rest of humanity would be pointless. They work for the Powers of the Warp, often specific factions of those Powers. Yes but what is a primary goal of most chaos factions? And concerning factions: They migt be leaderless or have more than one leader (just like every cult) and certainly have better relationship with some other factions than others, but I cant see faction having better relationship with Imperium than any other Chaos faction. Â I think we're agreeing here. My earlier point was that Chaos combining forces is more about convenience and an immediate "enemy of my enemy" thing more than any inherent desire to join forces, which is why I used the concept of Orks, Eldar, 'Nids, and Humans joining forces. It may happen on occasion, but it's the exception rather than the rule. And it's the same way with Chaos. Â Wait. Hunh? What? Why are we talking about the Strongest? There are different kinds of strength. Luthor is the perfect example of this. He has no power of his own, but he definitely is one of the most conniving and intelligent of any of the comic book villains to date. Yes there are different kinds of strength. What I was trying to tell, that there is not always most.... able guy who leads, there might be guy in background who is medicore in everything except manipulation, or there might be three guys who respect each other and noone claims leadership (Axis in WW2) and much much more possibilities.... Â There is leading from the front, and leading from the shadows, but it's still leading. Again, I believe we're agreeing on this. However, I do believe that in the context of this discussion, it would be rare for a smart, power-wise-weak Daemon to sit on the sidelines of a possessions guiding the brute-force daemon through what they do during the possession. Either way, one will overcome the other in relatively short order, otherwise, the target becomes pink mist/spawn. Â It happens when it happens. Not all betrayals wait until complete victory to be occuring, but when victory seems to have happened, and yes, they do end badly. Well but it dont tends to happen for no reason whatsoever. Victory or near victory seems to be a key point and this is not state of chaos today for sure. Â Total Victory is not a requirement for betrayal, just immediate "this battle alone" victory is usually enough of a trigger, and usually when someone drops their guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Putting CSM in the same group as the rest of humanity would be pointless. They work for the Powers of the Warp, often specific factions of those Powers. Yes but what is a primary goal of most chaos factions? Of Chaos Marines:  *Some of them want to see the Imperium that betrayed them burned to ashes *Some of them want to just pillage, loot, burn and kill *Some of them want to just kill and kick puppies for the kicks of it  Of Chaos Gods:  Complete domination over the rest of their sibling Gods and by extent complete domination of the material universe. Which would include eradication of troops of rival Gods as well as eradication of everything else including non-Imperium as well.  Of Chaos Cultists:  Not get whipped into a bloody pulp today as well and maybe get some food for the family.  TDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 That aside, from what I've gathered putting two or more Daemons inside the same person would put such a ridiculous strain on the host that it would be torn apart on itself whether the Daemons in question wants it or not. Â Consider a human to be a candle in the dark. Â Left alone it will burn evenly and slowly until finally going out, which is when the person dies. Â Enter normal singular possession, and it would be the same as dosing the candle straw in an accellerant making it burn out far quicker. Â Enter multiple possession and it would be like dosing the whole thing in an even stronger accellerant and the some more and liting it all of fire creating an explosion. Â That's my take on it at least. Â TDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RapatoR Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Kristoff - I agree that we agree on most points ^_^ , but concerning ladership, I still believe in leadership of multiple people/entinties (democracy and some other systems is based on this belief as well). I believe that evil creatures can have respect for each other or even be friends. Â TDA:Well I believe that Horus Heresy showed us that gods hate Imperium way more than each other. Concerning HH it springs to mind, that there were at least two cases (Horus, Luthor) of possessed by multiple entities - dark gods themselves. So a question comes to mind: if gods (whose hate each other so much) managed to do it without much damage, could be it possible for multiple entities of same god or entities whose are close to each other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Horus and Luther were not so much possessed by Daemons as rather they were filled with undiluted power. Â Which is another case entirely ^_^ Â TDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 And they joined together because the Emperor was the Great Anatheme. He is their opposite, the one creature who had a chance of destroying them. So it was essentially a "enemy of my enemy is my friend" scenario that they took millenia planning for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Kristoff - I agree that we agree on most points :) , but concerning ladership, I still believe in leadership of multiple people/entinties (democracy and some other systems is based on this belief as well). I believe that evil creatures can have respect for each other or even be friends. Â No doubt. But that's not what this thread is about. We're talking about 2 daemons possessing the same body. It's like 2 people trying to wear the same suit. The other aspect of the conversation is whether 2 Chaos FACTIONS can coexist peacefully. At which point, we're not going to count exceptions over 20,000 years that are more rare than Blanks born in the Eye. A Plaguebearer and a Horror could become friends about as easily as a Blank Panther's right hand will become friends with a KKK's left hand. They'll work together to accomplish another goal, but only temporarily and only if it would interfere with their hatred of each other. Â And they joined together because the Emperor was the Great Anatheme. He is their opposite, the one creature who had a chance of destroying them. So it was essentially a "enemy of my enemy is my friend" scenario that they took millenia planning for. Â Wrong Luthor, I was referencing Lex Luthor of Superman fame. Though that Luthor would have teamed up with Horus if he thought Horus could kill Kal-El (which he probably could, having "magic" and all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I think you referenced the wrong person because I was talking about the Gods joining each other to beat up the Emperor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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