Captain or Librarian?

[McSnow]

I'm currently setting up a 1750 point Ultramarine army.

I've already got all the models I need except for one of my HQ choices and it's the only part that I'm being indecisive about.

 

I can't decide between a librarian or a captain and what wargear to give them. My 2nd HQ choice is a Chaplain with a Jump pack who will be going joining a full squad of Assault marines.

 

I've got 130-150 points to play with, maybe a little more if I move things about a bit.

 

Depending apon what I choose they will either join my squad of TH/SS termies or a combat squad in a razorback.

 

All I know for certain is I want them to be CC orientated. Please help me! ;)

[Hellrender]

I always find that librarian is a very good support choice. He is just so very variable, compared to the captain, who can only do CC.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

To follow the logic in the previous post... for CC go with a Captain. I'd probably go with a pair of Lightning Claws, if the squad he's going with have a Fist or Hammer. Probably give him a Hammer or Fist if they don't. Maybe Melta Bombs too, though I've never had much luck with them.

 

On the other hand, if you're planning to play competitively, you're gonna need some psychic defence...

[pyroknight]

This depends a little on your playstyle.

Captain puts out more hurt in CC, unless he is fighting something rediculous that a force weapon would actually help against.

 

Librarian is a bit more versatile and can do a lot of damage with his psychic powers, or help his squad get to assault range. However is a bit more frail and has no Invul save. also psychic hood helps a lot against enemy psychers.

 

I would take a look at the list of psychic powers and see if there are any you really like or any that really compliment your strategy. If none of them seem that interesting to you, just get a Captain and focus on pounding faces. You can never have too much brute force.

 

I think its better to have an HQ that you are comfortable playing with, rather than an HQ that is meta competative.

[maturin]

If you go for the CC librarian option, you'll want to put him in terminator armor and give him a storm shield, as otherwise he has no invul. save. I find my HQ's always end up attracting armor-ignoring weapons (I wonder why?), so that storm shield will make him much more effective in CC.

 

This will increase your costs considerably, and prevent you from running units down - so plan accordingly.

 

It may make the captain a cheaper, better choice. A common loadout is Relic Blade + Storm shield...though I've never used a captain and can't comment with authority.

[DarkGuard]

A Librarian, particularly a power armoured one, is easier to fit into any list. He's also very cheap, 100pts, and comes with some fantastic abilities such as Null Zone and Gate of Infinity, in addition to his psychic hood. Or give him Avenger and he's a menace against most infantry.

 

Terminator armour is a tricky decision. Although it's a fantastic way to protect him, giving him a 2+/3++ (with storm shield), it also costs nearly as many points as Epistolary (but is still more useful). However, the big thing is that he can no longer ride in Rhinos or Razorbacks, which is a problem as Sternguard, Tactical squads etc ride in those. He has to either foot slog or go in that Land Raider. To be honest though I find he's fine in a Sternguard squad or similar. They have enough bodies that I'm not forced to put them on him initially. I also tend to leave him in the Rhino at times, so he can't be picked out in combat, the same can be said with your Land Raider. So we're looking at 100pts-140pts for a character with masses of utility and easily able to stick into units.

 

Now the Captain is typically someone harder to place, but you've already got a place for him, the Assault Terminator squad or that combat squad, personally it'll be better to do the former. Relic blade and storm shield are near mandatory and bring your points cost to 145pts. He can dish out a lot of pain in combat at I5 and take a lot of hits. However, that's all he can do, and has little utility beyond combat. You already have a combat character, so I don't think you need another.

 

So if I were you, I'd go for the Libby, you can use his utility. Give him Null Zone, which will really help your Hammernators deal with other rock units. Then the choice is to put him in power armour or Terminator armour with storm shield. You can use Null Zone in the LR so you'll never have much reason to get him out, and if he's in power armour you don't have to deploy him in the Land Raider, and can put him the Razorback, possibly with Avenger to help their damage output. Or if you decide to give him Terminator armour and a storm shield consider Vortex of Doom or Might of Ancients over Avenger, giving him a very powerful shooting attack or powerful CC attacks.

[McSnow]

Thank you everyone for the great replies.

I think the consensus seems that a librarian would be better with what I want which is an army that is versatile and can take on all comers.

 

I'm going to take him as he is, in the razorback with the combat squad, with Avenger & Null Zone.

 

Thanks for the advice and to DarkGuard for your brilliant Codex: Space Marines 101. I'm spending today's commute finishing reading through it. :)

[DarkGuard]

No problem, glad you found it helpful. Do remember that in PA he can still go in the LR, which can sometimes be a good idea to protect him better, so you've got a lot flexibility there in deployment. Hope it works out for.

[Guest Bucelufe]

if your Captain is going to be jumping in with your assault troops have you considered a jump pack equipped Chaplain? Rerolling those missed CC attacks can make a big difference and you get a free power weapon and 4+ invulnerable save to boot.

[DarkGuard]

He mentioned in his first post that his second hq is a jump pack Chaplain in the Assault squad.

[Willage]

Personal favourite one that, having a Master of Sanctity with jump pack and holy orb of Antioch with my 10 man assault squad when playing Black Templars.. Brilliant is not the word when it comes to Tau in CC!

 

Will

[Black Mage 257]

I actually find Captains are completely worthless in comparison to Librarians and Chaplains. For the same amount of points as a captain both of those bad boys have better natural and supportive abilities and in the case of the librarian he has the ability to fill any/many roles on the battlefield.

 

Personally I only use a Librarian with no upgrades at all, unless its a bigger game and then I'll use a Terminator Librarian with a Storm Shield. I occassionally dabble in the odd chaplain if I lean towards and assault based army but I usually can't see past the Librarian and for good reason.

 

I have on occassion made them Epistolarys but for that much points, it can be quite steep and I tend to use those points better elsewhere but it has saved me on occassion.