Predator?

[starwolf117]

Does anybody take predator's with the auto cannon/ heavy bolter pattern? I dont see it much but I have 85 extra points with my list i am working on and would like a bit of anti infantry/ anit rhino(transport), and I have had a bad success record with wolf scouts. Any advice is appreciated

[Thunderhawk3015]

Might we see the rest of your list before we start making suggestions?

[Godhead]

I tried them.... In fact, at one point i tried 3 of them...they were meh for me. I've always felt that wolf scouts failed me until i started running two packs. 70 points could net you a mm/hvy flm speeder. If you have other mech it might do ok. I was running an auto las pred for a few games, but after 3 straight games of it dying turn one or two, i just went back to long fangs.

[Wulfebane]

85 points also gets you a 4-man Long Fang pack with a heavy bolter and two missile launchers. Guess you could claim you're trading splitfire and krak missiles for armor and mobility.

[starwolf117]

Sorry for not including my list. Here is my in work 2000pt list with 85 points left over. I hadn’t thought about a small squad of long fangs but I do like mobility, too often it seems that I get my long fangs out maneuvered.

 

HQ

Rune priest 110 Points

Chooser of the Slain Living Lightning Jaws of the World Wolf

Rune priest 100pts

Murderous Hurricane, Jaws

Wolf Lord 240 Points

Thunderwolf Frost Weapon Storm Shield Wolf Tail Talisman Saga Of the Wolfkin 2 Fenrisian Wolfves Wolf Tooth Necklace

 

Elites

Wolf Guard 114 Points

3 Wolf Guard 3 Power fist

 

Troops

Grey Hunters 165 Points

9 Grey Hunters 1 melta gun Mark of the Wulfen 1 wolf standard/ Rhino

Grey Hunters 145 Points

8 Grey Hunters 1 melta gun Mark of the Wulfen 1 wolf standard/ Rhino

Grey Hunters 145 Points

8 Grey Hunters 1 melta Mark of the Wulfen 1 wolf Standard / Rhino

 

Fast Attack

Fenrisian Wolves (Fenrisian Wolves) 104 Points

13

Landspeeder 180 Points

Typhoon Missile Launcher *2

Thunderwolves (Thunderwolf Cavalry) 295 Points

4 thunderwolves 1 thunder hammer 2 storm sheild 1 melta bomb

 

Heavy Support

Long Fangs 165 Points

5 long fangs 3 missile launchers 1Lascannon / twin-linked lascannon Razorback

 

1913pts total

[Wulfebane]

Don't forget you can have 6-man Long Fang packs.

[Godhead]

Your longfangs are getting out manuvered because you only have a single pack. I had the same problem when i tried using a sinle pack. Too bad you cant split up the tml speeders, that would help alleviate the problem.

[postal105]

i use a predator with the auto cannon/ heavy bolters all the time and i like it but it sits between two packs of long fangs normally so that one of the 3 can blow up my opponents transports and then i simply hose them down with the rest of my army but i have learned to focus fire each unit until it is no longer a threat due to the fact that i wind up playing against orcs a lot of the time.

[Wulfebane]

With 30 potential foot Troops and 5 TWC making a mad dash for the enemy gunline, having only 1 pack of LFs and 2 supportive speeders just doesn't feel like enough for this point range, despite whether you add a predator or not. IMO, toss some of the Fen wolves to fit in another pack of LFs.

 

If you don't want to do that, you can shave 4 points by taking the fen wolves from the wolf lord and adding them to the fen wolf pack at reduced cost. The TWL will likely be in the TWC pack anyway and/or fen wolf pack whenever he chooses since you'll likely run them both side by side.

[Simo429]

Personally I think your list is all over the place.

Do you really need a razorback with your long fangs when you only have 1 pack

 

on a normal board 1 pack will not have much trouble finding a good lane of fire.

 

Do you need 2 rune priests? What are their purpose?

 

At 2000 points is 3 scoring units enough? Not for me

When you have the hard hitting thunderwolf unit do you need 10 man squads in rhinos?

Knock those squads down to 5 men and you have 40% more scoring units.

And I'm not even sure what the point of the fenrisian wolves are. Too many armies that shred them like paper.

 

For me the list is a defo jack of all trades master of none.

Thunder wolves are incredibly hard hitting but unless you couple them with the sort of long range fire power that can deal with 9 venoms then you start to struggle.

 

So to go back to your original point, I don't see what a predator would add to that list. To be competitive it needs a complete rework. If of course you are just interested in taking what you like best which is a valid way to go, go for it and I look forward to seeing how you get on.

[Wulfebane]

While I agree with the sentiment behind Simo's comment, I disagree with some things.

 

Do you really need a razorback with your long fangs when you only have 1 pack

 

on a normal board 1 pack will not have much trouble finding a good lane of fire.

 

This is part and parcel to the Missile-spam tactic. Typically, the Long Fangs won't ever enter the Razorback, but will deploy in range of it and simply use it as a mobile turret from there on. Good for contesting back objectives if necessary, or rushing up to transport/defend the remnants of a pack displaced from an exploding rhino.

 

Do you need 2 rune priests? What are their purpose?

 

In my opinion, one of, if not THE, best unnamed HQ unit in the game at base cost, especially among the other psyker options out there. Short of blowing points for a TWL with all the trimmings, this is the only HQ I take also... and often will do so at 1000pts and up. For his army, at 2% of the total army cost they more than make up their points.

 

At 2000 points is 3 scoring units enough? Not for me

When you have the hard hitting thunderwolf unit do you need 10 man squads in rhinos?

Knock those squads down to 5 men and you have 40% more scoring units.

And I'm not even sure what the point of the fenrisian wolves are. Too many armies that shred them like paper.

 

I'm a big fan of 5man GH packs, but I wouldn't recommend dumping points into a standard/motw for any of them. If it were me, I'd split 2 of the packs and keep one whole. As to the fen wolves... with all the rhinos on the field, they can easily keep cover til melee, but they can also serve as cannon fodder and run in front of the TWC as a screen to let the harder hitting unit get in range without incident.

 

So to go back to your original point, I don't see what a predator would add to that list. To be competitive it needs a complete rework.

 

I'll agree with this to a degree. With 48 Rapid Fire bolter shots combined with MH, LL, and JotWW, 6 frag missiles, 2 heavy bolters, and 3 Rhino storm bolters for good measure, this army isn't lacking anti-infantry from range, and sans the Long Fangs, certainly aren't hurting for anti-infantry in melee. So adding more dakka via a predator is just overkill.

 

I'd be more concerned with anti-armor, most particularly at long range, like tanks that like to sit at the back of deployment and just lob templates the whole game. With 6 krak missiles, and 2 lascannon shots, it's a start, but not a good one. I approve of wanting the autocannon for that, but it's still not enough. Relying on melee/short-range units to take out armor from approx. 36" away at the start of the game, with an entire army to protect them between you would be a mistake.

[fireballoflight]

*snip*

 

HQ

Rune priest 100 Points

*snip* Living Lightning Jaws of the World Wolf

Rune priest 100pts

Murderous Hurricane, *snip* Living Lightning (Living Lightning is the superior power, -especially when you already have Jaws- but Wolf of the Wolf Wolf has it's moments. Also consider taking Tempest's Wrath over Hurricane; although it only affects certain units, it hits them at a longer range and hits them all within the range rather than a single unit. The str3 hits are nice, but allow armour saves and probably wound on 5s. Math hammer on a 10 man assault marine squad: Hurricane hits 10.5 times, wounds 3.5 times kills one, dangerous terrain kills 1.5; total kills 2.5 approx. Tempest kills 1.66 Second turn: Hurricane fails due to squad being in combat, Tempest kills 1.66. Bearing in mind this hits the full army instead of one unit and hits twice, the loss of about 0.8 kills per unit per turn is kind of nothing. Admittedly it doesn't hurt every army, but those it does, it hurts much much more.)

*snip*

 

Elites

Wolf Guard 114 Points

5 Wolf Guard *snip* 5 combi meltas (sergeants for the grey hunters)

 

Troops

Grey Hunters 155 Points

5 Grey Hunters 1 melta gun *snip*/ Las/plas Razorback

Grey Hunters 155 Points

5 Grey Hunters 1 melta gun *snip*/ Las/plas Razorback

Grey Hunters 155 Points

5 Grey Hunters 1 melta gun *snip*/ Las/plas Razorback

Grey Hunters 155 Points

5 Grey Hunters 1 melta gun *snip*/ Las/plas Razorback

Grey Hunters 155 Points

5 Grey Hunters 1 melta gun *snip*/ Las/plas Razorback (increase scoring presence, add more tank hulls, and add more shots downrange with all)

 

Fast Attack

*snip*

Landspeeder 90 Points

Typhoon Missile Launcher *snip*

Landspeeder 90 Points

Typhoon Missile Launcher *snip* (Split these after dropping the Fenrisian wolves.)

Thunderwolves (Thunderwolf Cavalry) 395 Points

4 thunderwolves 1 thunder hammer 2 storm sheild 1 melta bomb (put the melta bomb on a storm shield for wound allocation)

 

Heavy Support

Long Fangs 190 Points

5 long fangs 4 missile launchers / *snip* las/plas Razorback (more resilient to weapon destroyed, and another 1-2 ap 2 mid strength shots)

Long Fangs 190 Points

5 long fangs 4 missile launchers / *snip* las/plas Razorback (double missile fire and add another r/back)

Predator 60

Predator, autocannon, no bolters (Couldn't figure how to use the last 60 points so added a predator.)

 

1913pts total

I noticed you did not add the points for transports for unit totals, making it a bit harder to calculate points. You did it correct for army totals however. I made adjustments to the lists, as to how I would improve it. Personal opinion, take it how you will; look for the *snip*s. Sorry for the major workover.

[starwolf117]

thanks everybody. I do see a lot of your points and agree the list needs a rework. I played in a local tournament with it and I was iffy about it all ready. I do however really like fireballoflight's list and will look into using it as a starting point to create my very own list to bring glory to the wolves.

[Arez]

could go atoucannon with lascannon side sponsons.i've been using that combo for a few games and have had good results

[Simo429]

This is part and parcel to the Missile-spam tactic. Typically, the Long Fangs won't ever enter the Razorback, but will deploy in range of it and simply use it as a mobile turret from there on. Good for contesting back objectives if necessary, or rushing up to transport/defend the remnants of a pack displaced from an exploding rhino.

 

I agree but this is far from missile spam.

 

For me the main purpose of the Razorback other than what you have suggested is to allow rapid redeployment especially in DOW when the lanes of fire and cover available aren't good enough. With 1 squad that isn't as much of an issue.

 

In my opinion, one of, if not THE, best unnamed HQ unit in the game at base cost, especially among the other psyker options out there. Short of blowing points for a TWL with all the trimmings, this is the only HQ I take also... and often will do so at 1000pts and up. For his army, at 2% of the total army cost they more than make up their points.

 

Again I agree with you on how good Rune Priests are, I disagree with how many points is being put into HQ's as a total, (although 200 points isn't 2% of 2000 its 10). If I were spending 450 points on HQ's 4 rune priests would be good value, 2 rune priests and a tooled up Thunder lord for me isn't. It again comes down to the synergy of the list.

2 Rune priests is a great option, its what I take in my own 1750 tournament list.

A thunderlord and a rune priest is another option I had my own mid table success with at 4 or 5 national tournaments.

2 rune priests and a thunderlord? Whats the point. What is that second rune priest there for?Is it for an additional LL? If so take a rifleman. Is it for the extra psychic defence? Do you need that when you have such a hard hitting deathstar unit?

[Wulfebane]

thanks everybody. I do see a lot of your points and agree the list needs a rework. I played in a local tournament with it and I was iffy about it all ready. I do however really like fireballoflight's list and will look into using it as a starting point to create my very own list to bring glory to the wolves.

 

Only thing I can say about fireballoflight's list is I hate the usage of razerspam, despite its proven success... just feels boring and overdone.

 

@Simo - argh.. it is 10%. Serves me right to be posting at 5am. Even so, that's still not too bad.

[fireballoflight]

thanks everybody. I do see a lot of your points and agree the list needs a rework. I played in a local tournament with it and I was iffy about it all ready. I do however really like fireballoflight's list and will look into using it as a starting point to create my very own list to bring glory to the wolves.

Someone liking my lists? Quick! Someone slap me; I'm dreaming again!

[Freman Bloodglaive]

thanks everybody. I do see a lot of your points and agree the list needs a rework. I played in a local tournament with it and I was iffy about it all ready. I do however really like fireballoflight's list and will look into using it as a starting point to create my very own list to bring glory to the wolves.

Someone liking my lists? Quick! Someone slap me; I'm dreaming again!

 

*Slaps fireballoflight.*