GLs GK Codex wishlist changes

[Gentlemanloser]

Problem is, if Halberd are nerfed and Falchions remain as is, no one will still use Falchions.

 

The decision whether to use Halberds will become harder, it won't be the no brainer it is today.

[Morollan]

Problem is, if Halberd are nerfed and Falchions remain as is, no one will still use Falchions.

 

The decision whether to use Halberds will become harder, it won't be the no brainer it is today.

 

I disagree. The choice between +1A and +1I for the same points would be a choice that, if anything, would go in favour of the falchions.

[Gentlemanloser]

Yeah, if you go the double nerf route, if you increase the cost and reduce the bonus, it's a lot closer a choice. Halberd if you face Marines/Elves, Falchions if you face IG/Necrons/Orks.

 

But if it's a smaller, one or other nerf, the Halberd still come out on top.

 

I think, if you double nerf the Halberds, most would probably skip either, and use Forceswords and Hammers. :angry: You'd probably have to increase the cost of Hammers.

 

But then that would make the CC upgrades all unattractive, with the Force Sword being a bargin at a free Power Weapon that gives a +1 to any invulnerable in CC.

 

It's a tough act to balance, and probably the easiest route would be to lower the Halberd to +1I, and lower the cost of the Falchions to match the Halberds.

[RedemptionNL]

4. It allows the Terminator armoured GK to use grenades.

 

;) Lol!

 

It's actually described in the codex, page 27, bottom left paragraph. :lol:

[The Holy Heretic]

Well it's this notion I just don get;

 

that doesn't change the fact that GK are the most boring army modelwise

 

Algonside the claim of C&P Bland Marines.

 

Rules wise, we're anything but Bland, and less 'Marine' than any other divergent chapter. Mini wise, we're so much more detailed than 'standard' marines (and even the specific upgrade sprues) I can't agree with this either.

 

If it's specific stuff, then you only have to look at the NDK. No other Marine chapter has *anything* that comes close to the towering MC we have. And that's bland C&P?

 

I don't get it.

 

I really don't.

 

Rules and modelling, GKs are far removed from the rest of the Marines.

 

You misunderstand me. I don't think the GK models are bad - they'd be the best marine models out there, if only they had taken the time to sculpt barrels on the storm bolters :lol:

 

Its the lack of variation. The basic difference between a purifier and a strike squad is that one has 2 special weapons, the same goes for paladins and terminators.

 

Ruleswise blandness... Standard marine statlines, standard marine armour, standard marine vehicles, sure they play a little different - of course they do - but the feel is definitely marine-y, with only minor differences from the Ultra Black Bloody McWolf Silver Marine template. Their lack of uniqueness is easily summed up by the standard answer that comes when people ask how to defeat them: "They die just like other marines.".

 

Yes, you can get a unique army by fielding Coteaz, as you say. What I'm saying is that this approach is a lot more unique and interesting, compared to the routine variations on the Ultra Black Bloody McWolf Silver Marine theme. It would serve the fluff a lot better, as GKs are supposed to be ultra rare and have the same territory to guard as a thousand 'standard' chapters. It would also serve to make the knights themselves seem more unique and elite, as uniqueness and elite-ness comes not from capability but from comparison - if a standard GK had a statline of all 10s, he would still be only baseline in his army, and when two GK players would fight, they would field two armies of bog standard baseliners.

 

-

 

And most of all, I really, really like the old fluff, where allies who stood besides the knights, marines or planetary defense forces alike, were either mind wiped or just killed, just to make sure corruption couldn't take hold - which really doesn't play out, when the GK doesn't fight alongside anything but GK ;)

[Morollan]

Ruleswise blandness... Standard marine statlines, standard marine armour, standard marine vehicles, sure they play a little different - of course they do - but the feel is definitely marine-y, with only minor differences from the Ultra Black Bloody McWolf Silver Marine template. Their lack of uniqueness is easily summed up by the standard answer that comes when people ask how to defeat them: "They die just like other marines.".

 

Erm....they are marines. What were you expecting?

[Gentlemanloser]

Then I apologise! I did misunderstand you!

 

I agree, which is why I'm trying to make the units fit more in line with how the designer tried to deisgn them, and give them all a place in the 'dex.

 

Strikes for example. They supposed to arrive at a battlefield ahead of the army, and set up in preperation. How? Deep Strike fails at that. Give them either Scout or Infiltrate, fits thier fluff and also differentiates them from the same 24" pew pew role as Purgation Squads and Purifiers (and GKT and Pallies...).

 

Extending the range of Purgation Squads makes them our troop based (not FoC slot) long range dakka. As long as they're not shut down by a Drop Podding Rune Priest.

 

Personally, I like the idea of the GKs organising themselves backwards in relation to any other chapter. With the core of the army being GKT, and the PA troops being specialists. I like so much I'd stick Strikes in Elite with Infiltrate/Scout, Interceptors as Fast and Purgation Squads as Heavy with the extra 12" Range.

 

Leave those three in PA and their 'specialist' roles, and leave GKT as our only standard Troops.

 

:D

[Reclusiarch Darius]

There's a reason why they don't grant +2A. Even at +1A you increase the melee ability of a standard GK vs MEQ by 100%. Increasing it to +2A makes it a 200% increase. That is why falchions cost so much for 1A models (and less for 2A models) and that is why GK's do not have True Grit.

 

Wut? You do realise everyone but Paladins have WS4 right? 2 attacks versus 4 isn't a huge increase in wound output against other Marines. You still only get 2 hits, and maybe cause 1 wound per Terminator. Which considering they are 45pts a pop, you'd want significantly more damage output. Not to mention these extra attacks are at standard Initiative 4.

Even with 2A, falchions still cost 5pts per model so you can't spam them easily. If you stack True Grit on top of that, yes it becomes insane, but as I said, True Grit is a dumb rule and we can just as easily make falchions better without bringing it back.

Falchions as they are now suck so hard no one will take them. 2A at least makes them relevant, although they're still worse than halberds (attacks before the enemy means all your attacks get in, not just survivors) or hammers (getting wounds with hammers is easy and they break tanks as well).

 

The NFF parry was becuase +1A for second CCW would be redundant if SB granted that. So could leave NFF as +2A total (which they should be now...).

 

Oh yeah. Like I said they, I'd prefer if we didn't resort to True Grit.

 

NFS would have to cost less than any SS option, as they only work in CC and give no benefit during the shooting phase.

 

They are free currently?

 

No intention to derail my thread with this point again! I'll just say that personally, GKT don't bring enough attacks or durability to warrant being taken over an equal cost of Strikes, and this needs to change somehow. Strikes more expensive, or GKT get more (but how much more can we really justify giving GKT?).

 

Well, agree to disagree ;) I like going full trimmings with Bro Banner and double psycannon on mine, so I get different mileage. As a side point, 'making points back' is the biggest internet fallacy out there.

 

An AA option for a Brother-Captain with PT is a nice idea. Would go well with giving him his own place. But he'd have to cost more than the BC with a PT.

 

He does? 150 base price versus 100 base price. Both pay the same for teleporters, but Bro Captain has to purchase AA on top of it, whereas Champ comes with it for free (but with only 2 wounds).

 

The reason for CC dreads is to give us something to stick in our Stormravens, should we so wish. Sure, we don't get AV13, but we do get the ability to ignore shaken/stunned. I'd probably also give Dreads Hammerhand, so if they're kicking (or using a Greatsword) they have the option to buff up to S7.

 

If we're given the ability to take 3 Storm Ravens, then give us the abilty to stick 3 jump troops into it, and 3 dreads we'd actually like to carry...

 

Those lists don't work though. BA players found out the hard way, when they tried the DC/Stormhammers+Talon Furisoso+Stormraven+Libby nuke and watched it die turn 1 to autocannons downing the Raven. Close-combat Dreads are a cool idea though...double nemesis doomfist? Maybe give them greatsword option? (Hammer is redundant as they already have DCCW). They come with geller field upgrade standard, so you can 'Summon' them (another thing that needs fixing) where needed.

They don't need Hammerhand, dual doomfists is brutal enough, and greatsword's disadvantage is hitting at S6 but re-rolling everything as the mitigating factor.

 

The only reasons I'd want additional FA choices is to actually give us some options. Only having one choice for a slot is /meh. Interceptors was a cop out though. Unless you really redesign them so they aren't just a C&P of Strikes.

 

Welcome to 40k :P Fast Attack is always the worst section of any army, the exceptions prove the rule. The fact is, they could give us 7 different and unique units to play with in FA, and no one would take them because we need manz badly (we're an elite elite MEQ army, bodycount is always abysmal) and we need scoring units and heavy hitters to swing the battle our way. None of which would live in FA, by design.

Y'know what we could do? Jetbikes. Suddenly, Interceptors aren't just Strike Knights, they are T5 ignoring terrain annoyances. Giving up teleport shunt means nothing when you can turbo boost every turn if you want. Not sure of pricing though, they have to be significantly less than Terminators but still more expensive than Strikes.

 

What's the real difference between IC but can only join pUrifiers, or a Puri Retinue? The Retinue is the simpler fix, and the IC with restrictions only helps if you want to move him to a new Squad if the old one dies.

 

They're useful. Retinues are a terribad idea leftover from 4th (Mordrak is a textbook example of 'how to fail at execution of good idea').

With my suggestion, you get all the options you could want. He can run solo, he can slip from squad to squad to avoid enemy fire (if it's one of those incredibly dumb 'kill teh hero' mission objectives some tourney's bother with), and he can detach to multi-charge things or to tie something up so the Purifiers don't have to commit to combat early (Crowe with your buffed statline and auto-Rend 'Cleansing Flame' will solo pretty well).

 

I'd be fine with that if NFS gave 6++ save in CC only, if you don't have an Invulnerable.

 

6++ doesn't matter in this game, especially when it's not like Fantasy where you get both, you only roll one save in 40k.

Bah, fine, lets give Strikes 5++ in combat. They're dead to power weapons anyway, might as well make them last an extra round of combat to get the enemy to pop out in your Shooting phase.

 

Brother-Captains keep the same rules, but have power armour (with the option for Articifer Armour) and no option for Terminator Armour.

 

Hear me out guys! One of the problems of Grey Knights is they cannot take a solid character inside a Rhino (Champions and Techmarines being less solid than Captains), therefore units of Purifiers and Strikes end up unsupported unless you invest heavily in expensive transports.

 

Another problem is why take a Captain over Master when he get's an awesome ability over the Captain? Well if the Terminator Master is taken for the abilities he can have, the player needs to find a place for him since he has awkward armour. If the power armour Captain is taken, sure you don't get the abilities, but you then don't HAVE to spend points on expensive transports and aren't automatically limited to strategically to taking Terminators who must deepstrike.

 

That change alone would completely change how people build lists.

 

*artificer armour

Power armour is too weaksauce for a hero, artificer or TDA better shows how precious and well protected our heroes are.

Would people be amenable to the same option on Grandmasters? Or is it better to keep them in the 'have to accompany Paladins/Terminator blob' bracket of heroes?

 

The reason they're not used is not to do with cost it's simply the fact that Halberds are absurdly good and are undercosted. +1A is a very good boost to a model armed with a power/force weapon but striking first against 95% of your opponents is far more effective and to be brutally honest should be doubled or tripled in cost.

 

Er no, because then no one would take halberds. TBH, I think it would be simpler if they just made all the options except hammer/stave free on all squads. Hammer offers a clear benefit over all the others, and the stave is so hilariously OP in combat it has to be powerfist cost to be balanced.

 

4. It allows the Terminator armoured GK to use grenades.

 

Damn, I still forget that in actual games haha. Charge though terrain, then I go 'wait a minute....I have frags!'.

 

I think I'd rather see Halberds nerfed than Falchions buffed. Halberd need to be increased to at least the same cost as Falchions and/or reduced to +1 Init.

 

+2 means we stand a chance against all the Furious Charge out there (I'm looking at you BA). Remember, Knights still have horrible model count, cost per attack is huge (as they are force weapons after all), and we rely a lot on hammers and psychic powers to swing things (both of which have their drawbacks). GKT wouldn't even be useful without halberds, Paladins would be severely gimped as well.

 

 

Leave those three in PA and their 'specialist' roles, and leave GKT as our only standard Troops.

 

Great idea in theory. The problem is, without Coteaz or a GM, we have next to no scoring models (until Crowe is fixed Purifier lists are hard to work below 2k). Thats why Strikes exist, to give us the cheapest possible bodycount and storm bolter/psycannons. They are actually discounted heavily (cue every forum complaining about how much their Troops suck next to Strikes, the irony lol), but they're still worse than Terminators. Which is by design.

That's why I think Matt put them as Troops. A game design decision (due to how scoring works in 40k, a non-sensical system IMO but whatever), informed by background (Strikes hold ground and objectives, whilst Terminators are used for frontal assaults on enemy positions).

[Gentlemanloser]

They are free currently?

 

*whistle*

 

I should probalby stop using NFS for Nemesis Force Sword and Nemesis Force Staff. ;)

 

Those lists don't work though. BA players found out the hard way

 

I had a massive amount of fun (and success!) waiting for the new GK 'dex playing this sort of Bangle list;

 

Dante + Honour Guard

 

2 x S Gaurd + 2 x Priest

 

2 x Storm Raven

 

2 x Dual BT Dread (sometimes Frag cannons)

 

It was awesome! Get first turn, turbo boost, next turn assault 4 units and kill 4 units. Drop Dante. Get second turn, reserve everything. :P

 

Sure, there was occasion I started with the Ravens on board, and lot one to a boxcars Krak missile. :/

 

Whether or not they 'work', if we've been given Ravens, we should have the ability to use them to thier full potential. 6 jump troops and a CC dread.

[the jeske]

I disagree. The choice between +1A and +1I for the same points would be a choice that, if anything, would go in favour of the falchions.

well your wrong +1A out weights +1I when it comes to normal attacks . thing is GK dont do normal attacks they have force weapons . falchions would have to cheaper to be even considered and people would probably still run more halabards then falchions +the obligatory hammer.

[Morollan]

There's a reason why they don't grant +2A. Even at +1A you increase the melee ability of a standard GK vs MEQ by 100%. Increasing it to +2A makes it a 200% increase. That is why falchions cost so much for 1A models (and less for 2A models) and that is why GK's do not have True Grit.

 

Wut? You do realise everyone but Paladins have WS4 right? 2 attacks versus 4 isn't a huge increase in wound output against other Marines. You still only get 2 hits, and maybe cause 1 wound per Terminator. Which considering they are 45pts a pop, you'd want significantly more damage output. Not to mention these extra attacks are at standard Initiative 4.

Even with 2A, falchions still cost 5pts per model so you can't spam them easily. If you stack True Grit on top of that, yes it becomes insane, but as I said, True Grit is a dumb rule and we can just as easily make falchions better without bringing it back.

Falchions as they are now suck so hard no one will take them. 2A at least makes them relevant, although they're still worse than halberds (attacks before the enemy means all your attacks get in, not just survivors) or hammers (getting wounds with hammers is easy and they break tanks as well).

 

Err, I think I said a standard GK so that would indeed be WS4. So, against MEQ, hit on 4 wound on 4 (ignoring Hammerhand)

 

1 attack vs MEQ = 0.5 hits, 0.25 wounds, no save

2 attacks vs MEQ = 1 hits, 0.5 wounds, no save = +100% for 1A model

3 attacks vs MEQ = 1.5 hits, 0.75 wounds, no save = +200% for 1A model, +50% for 2A model

4 attacks vs MEQ = 2 hits, 1 wound, no save = +300% for A model, +100% for 2A model

 

This being the reason that 2A models pay half as much as 1A models - they gain less from having the extra attack. And if you think you should gain +2A for 5/10 points then you're deluded.

 

The reason they're not used is not to do with cost it's simply the fact that Halberds are absurdly good and are undercosted. +1A is a very good boost to a model armed with a power/force weapon but striking first against 95% of your opponents is far more effective and to be brutally honest should be doubled or tripled in cost.

 

Er no, because then no one would take halberds. TBH, I think it would be simpler if they just made all the options except hammer/stave free on all squads. Hammer offers a clear benefit over all the others, and the stave is so hilariously OP in combat it has to be powerfist cost to be balanced.

 

LOL - free +2 I or +2A. Yeah right. If Hammer and Stave are so clearly better than the other options then why are you arguing about the cost of falchions and the effectiveness of halberds? It's not hammers and staves that people worry about when in an assault with GK's. It's the halberds that can kill them before they even get to attack. Those same halberds that you yourself said would still be better than falchions, even with +2A.

 

I think I'd rather see Halberds nerfed than Falchions buffed. Halberd need to be increased to at least the same cost as Falchions and/or reduced to +1 Init.

 

+2 means we stand a chance against all the Furious Charge out there (I'm looking at you BA). Remember, Knights still have horrible model count, cost per attack is huge (as they are force weapons after all), and we rely a lot on hammers and psychic powers to swing things (both of which have their drawbacks). GKT wouldn't even be useful without halberds, Paladins would be severely gimped as well.

 

If you have +1I you still go first a significant portion of the time or at worst you strike simultaneously against most opponents. Against BA you already ignore their armour and FNP so I don't think you really ought to struggle too much.

[Brother Ambroz]

I find this topic hilarious in the extreme.

 

Really though Halbards should be nerfed among alot of other things, probably to +1 I. Going simultaneously with furious charge models is still an advantage. Even with BA you still ingore their armor and FNP. Against other things with FC.....BT and zerkers....well it's just no contest (and that's not even fun).

[The Holy Heretic]

Ruleswise blandness... Standard marine statlines, standard marine armour, standard marine vehicles, sure they play a little different - of course they do - but the feel is definitely marine-y, with only minor differences from the Ultra Black Bloody McWolf Silver Marine template. Their lack of uniqueness is easily summed up by the standard answer that comes when people ask how to defeat them: "They die just like other marines.".

 

Erm....they are marines. What were you expecting?

 

Level 4 psykers in terminator armour (units not characters), just like back in Rogue Trader - those guys were nothing like marines :D

[Gentlemanloser]

Force Rods and Time Warp ftw! :D

 

Ah those were the days, where you could kill entire Ork armies by virus bombs, as they didn't have 'sealed systems'. ;)

[adamv6]

A specialist transport / tank would be good. Bangels have the BAAL Pred, maybe we could have;

 

KnightBack - 75points

 

F12/S11/R10

Twin linked Pyscannon

Defensive weapon - psilencer

Transport 6 PA's

 

Special Rules;

Physic Pilot

Grenadier

Physic Mirage

 

Grenadier - The KnightBack can use its grenade launchers to assist units within 9" in CC. Grenades are limited to frag, psychout and rad.

Physic Mirage - The Knightback can, once per game activate a powerful physic barrier around itself and the surrounding 6". This barrier projects horrifying images that tear at the mind of the attackers. When trying to shoot at the knightback or units covered by the barrier, units must take a LD test on 3D6. Failing it makes the unit immediately go to ground. A passed test allow the unit to shoot as normal.

[Morollan]

Ruleswise blandness... Standard marine statlines, standard marine armour, standard marine vehicles, sure they play a little different - of course they do - but the feel is definitely marine-y, with only minor differences from the Ultra Black Bloody McWolf Silver Marine template. Their lack of uniqueness is easily summed up by the standard answer that comes when people ask how to defeat them: "They die just like other marines.".

 

Erm....they are marines. What were you expecting?

 

Level 4 psykers in terminator armour (units not characters), just like back in Rogue Trader - those guys were nothing like marines ^_^

 

Yes and 'normal' marines could have a minus 2+ save and a T10 power field and a lascutter and vortex grenade and be mounted on a power board with a 300" movement. You really cannot compare a 25 year old skirmish ruleset with no real army lists to the current rules and codexes.

[The Holy Heretic]

Ruleswise blandness... Standard marine statlines, standard marine armour, standard marine vehicles, sure they play a little different - of course they do - but the feel is definitely marine-y, with only minor differences from the Ultra Black Bloody McWolf Silver Marine template. Their lack of uniqueness is easily summed up by the standard answer that comes when people ask how to defeat them: "They die just like other marines.".

 

Erm....they are marines. What were you expecting?

 

Level 4 psykers in terminator armour (units not characters), just like back in Rogue Trader - those guys were nothing like marines ^_^

 

Yes and 'normal' marines could have a minus 2+ save and a T10 power field and a lascutter and vortex grenade and be mounted on a power board with a 300" movement. You really cannot compare a 25 year old skirmish ruleset with no real army lists to the current rules and codexes.

 

You're so very wrong, at that point RT had in fact found its 'current' form with army lists and all, while it still retained room for customisation and scratchbuilds :P - but you're right that it was a bit chaotic, rules were a bit 'clunky' and White Dwarf was an interesting read ;)

[Captain Idaho]

A specialist transport / tank would be good. Bangels have the BAAL Pred, maybe we could have;

 

KnightBack - 75points

 

F12/S11/R10

Twin linked Pyscannon

Defensive weapon - psilencer

Transport 6 PA's

 

Special Rules;

Physic Pilot

Grenadier

Physic Mirage

 

Grenadier - The KnightBack can use its grenade launchers to assist units within 9" in CC. Grenades are limited to frag, psychout and rad.

Physic Mirage - The Knightback can, once per game activate a powerful physic barrier around itself and the surrounding 6". This barrier projects horrifying images that tear at the mind of the attackers. When trying to shoot at the knightback or units covered by the barrier, units must take a LD test on 3D6. Failing it makes the unit immediately go to ground. A passed test allow the unit to shoot as normal.

 

That vehicle is worth more than 100pts...

[Red Lost Soldier]

I would give the "henchmen as troops" rule to all Inquisition SCs, and a watered down version (maybe 2 units?) to standard inquisitors. It irks me that Inquisitors are supposed to have nearly unlimited powers of requisition, yet only one guy in the whole galaxy can put a Inquisitorial army on the table now.

[The Holy Heretic]

I find it odd to field an army of 'henchmen'. I definitely prefer them, as a 'retinue' to an inquisitor, its like fielding an army of CIA operatives, which just doesn't ring true. What is lacking is the planetary defense forces, requisitioned as cannonfodder to be slaughtered for secrecy/security after the battle :P

[Reclusiarch Darius]

*whistle*

 

I should probalby stop using NFS for Nemesis Force Sword and Nemesis Force Staff.

 

^_^ derp, my bad. Yes, you should, otherwise stupid people like me misread.

 

Whether or not they 'work', if we've been given Ravens, we should have the ability to use them to thier full potential. 6 jump troops and a CC dread.

 

The thing is though, the jump troops thing is a Blood Angel thing. We drop Paladins and Purifiers out of ours (even with your planned changes, both options are still better than Interceptors). Although I agree we need a decent assault Dread.

I'm thinking Matt made the same deliberations, and thats why (in part) the DK got made. It's essentially an assault Dread, but modded so it's an MC instead (presumably to make it more resilient to anti-tank). The problem is it lives in Heavy, where the PsyDread is king of support. Maybe if we just moved the entire DK entry to FA?

 

This being the reason that 2A models pay half as much as 1A models - they gain less from having the extra attack. And if you think you should gain +2A for 5/10 points then you're deluded.

 

No I think falchions should be free. Call me crazy, but I just don't see them working as a viable option unless it's a free swap. Knights are still just pricy Marines, making us better in combat doesn't mitigate our low model count.

 

LOL - free +2 I or +2A. Yeah right. If Hammer and Stave are so clearly better than the other options then why are you arguing about the cost of falchions and the effectiveness of halberds? It's not hammers and staves that people worry about when in an assault with GK's. It's the halberds that can kill them before they even get to attack. Those same halberds that you yourself said would still be better than falchions, even with +2A.

 

Yeah, but not if you have 'Quicksilver' as an option. Halberds are default because they're either ludicrously cheap or free, and their bonus is currently so much better. If you hand out a boatload of attacks for the same opportunity cost/price, suddenly the metrics change. Do I really need I6 versus matchup X? Or can I get by with weathering their attacks then going at I4, or casting 'Quicksilver' judiciously into combats I need to go first in?

Hammers not worrying people? Are you kidding? Walkers don't care unless 'Might' is being cast, thats why you see the 1-5 ratio on combat units (and even on things like Strikes, the hammer Justicar is still good insurance). Also, if you screw up with your halberds (don't get your ID power off, or fail to cause enough wounds), hammers bring the pain.

 

If you have +1I you still go first a significant portion of the time or at worst you strike simultaneously against most opponents. Against BA you already ignore their armour and FNP so I don't think you really ought to struggle too much.

 

Er no, you're going to lose significant chunks of dudes. BA are one of the best assault MeQ armies out there, thats their thing. Death Company will tear our Terminators and Purifiers apart without I6 halberds, Sanguinary Guard as well (although they probably die to counter-attacks, it's still a good trade in most cases for the BA). Even their basic Troops outfight Purifiers on the charge (in protracted combat you'll probably fight to a bloody stalemate, as they have cheaper bodies). Ignoring FNP and power armour is very good, but we just don't have the attack output to be assured of victory. BA vs Knights are usually quite bloody fights for that reason, even with the current I6 halberds leaning things our way.

The thing is, BA will commonly field 40 assault dudes plus specialists and walkers, to our 30 dudes (at least one squad of which is likely to be failStrikes making up Troops). If you go MSU, things get even worse (BA love Purifier MSU). Our infantry cost more, we rely on our shooting to soften up the enemy prior to combat (by design) etc.

 

KnightBack - 75points

 

F12/S11/R10

Twin linked Pyscannon

Defensive weapon - psilencer

Transport 6 PA's

 

Special Rules;

Physic Pilot

Grenadier

Physic Mirage

 

Grenadier - The KnightBack can use its grenade launchers to assist units within 9" in CC. Grenades are limited to frag, psychout and rad.

Physic Mirage - The Knightback can, once per game activate a powerful physic barrier around itself and the surrounding 6". This barrier projects horrifying images that tear at the mind of the attackers. When trying to shoot at the knightback or units covered by the barrier, units must take a LD test on 3D6. Failing it makes the unit immediately go to ground. A passed test allow the unit to shoot as normal.

 

2/10, would not field

 

That vehicle is worth more than 100pts...

 

In which parallel universe?

 

I would give the "henchmen as troops" rule to all Inquisition SCs, and a watered down version (maybe 2 units?) to standard inquisitors. It irks me that Inquisitors are supposed to have nearly unlimited powers of requisition, yet only one guy in the whole galaxy can put a Inquisitorial army on the table now.

 

Them's the breaks. Coteaz is the Final Boss of the Inquisition, he gets all the henchmen money and intimidation can coerce to fight the noble Chaos Marines and Daemons.

 

I find it odd to field an army of 'henchmen'. I definitely prefer them, as a 'retinue' to an inquisitor, its like fielding an army of CIA operatives, which just doesn't ring true. What is lacking is the planetary defense forces, requisitioned as cannonfodder to be slaughtered for secrecy/security after the battle

 

You can have that. The basic Henchmen is cheaper than a Guardsman

[The Holy Heretic]

I find it odd to field an army of 'henchmen'. I definitely prefer them, as a 'retinue' to an inquisitor, its like fielding an army of CIA operatives, which just doesn't ring true. What is lacking is the planetary defense forces, requisitioned as cannonfodder to be slaughtered for secrecy/security after the battle

 

You can have that. The basic Henchmen is cheaper than a Guardsman

 

I'm well aware of what you can and can't do with the codex, I obviously am, since I'm commenting on a forum dedicated to it. Since I'm asking for change, I'm obviously asking for something different. :D

 

So instead of jumping at 'clever' remarks like that, I suggest, you try to ponder, what you don't understand - or question it, if you fail to get any meaning out of it. ^_^

[the jeske]

In which parallel universe?

the same where to buy frags for terminators you have to buy a crusader and you have to put them inside the tank . the same where you are unable to give the said frags to dreads or NDKs . the one where you dont get a 18" bubble to lower the opposing army T by one . The one where all it takes is a unit to get a charge in to an already going hth for all fights within those 18" to proc the rad again .

The one where 3d6 roll on avarge is 11 so everyone fails the test on avarge so the av 12 can not be silence by shoting . The one where the said buff is not only for the tank but for every unit within 6" [and it doesnt say whole unit so its enough If I have one dude within range and the rest conga] . it is that universe. I would take a shoting uber razroback which makes it on avarge impossible for the enemy to shot at me for 150pts in chaos even if it was av 10 on all sides and blew up on glance.

[adamv6]

That vehicle is worth more than 100pts...

 

Looking back, I would have to agree. A points value of around 110 would be fair. The grenadier power is worth 10-15 points, as is the psychic mirage.

 

The idea behind the vehicle was to give the GK army a viable alternative to DS or the Landraider spearhead that so many use. A specialist vehicle that only GK can have, that can be used to spearhead, probably loaded with a Inquisitor, Mystic and a few DSA's to lead a PA GK force.

[Gentlemanloser]

I'm thinking Matt made the same deliberations, and thats why (in part) the DK got made. It's essentially an assault Dread, but modded so it's an MC instead (presumably to make it more resilient to anti-tank). The problem is it lives in Heavy, where the PsyDread is king of support. Maybe if we just moved the entire DK entry to FA?

 

If only the SR could carry a NDK. :)

 

Another thing for the wishlist! :)