Help beating black templars

[Febelcrofas]

Ok, I know black templars are supposed to be a bit below par however whenever I play my mate he always whops me. It's usually all good untill turn 3 or 4 and then he takes me to the cleaners in assault. I don't know whether it's because of the way he runs his army, there is not a single bolter in his army it's all bp and ccw for all his marines and his 5 assault terminators all with lighning claws eat ANYTHING! I run a fairly shooty ultramarines list and the only way I can see beating him is to just field what I would cosider to be a fairly boring list, stacking up on high end weaponry. I like to have a nice ballanced list, it just feels more fun to me (exept the losing part). Can anybody help by offering some hints on how to take down templars??

[Guest Bucelufe]

Plasma guns and plasma cannons are usually the staple anti armoured infantry weapon and you don't need many to have a good impact on the out come of your games so you wouldn't need a massive army list rewrite.

[greatcrusade08]

i have never agreed that black templars are sub par.. infact despite not having the newer toys id rate them better than generic C:SM, perhaps on the same level as C:BA without mephy.

 

with the ability to move towards the enemy aftr taking a casualty, its best to concentrate fire on one unit at a time, treat them as any marine army in that regard and youll be fine.. so either massed dice rolls or a few well aimed AP3 or better shots.

you could use one unit to draw them out of cover before hitting them with your more powerful shooting etc, use thier rules against them somewhat.

potms vehicles are a nightmare, they cant be stunlocked

[Febelcrofas]

Thanks, I've already started putting a bit more plasma into my lists as it is but I've been pondering a possible plasma command squad. Any thoughts on this? Also I always try to put a bit of cc in my army to try and slow him down, is this a good idea or should I focus on shooting the hell out of him?

[DarkGuard]

Remember that unless he has a Chaplain in the unit the squad must righteous zeal towards the nearest visible enemy. Use this to your advantage with fast units like Speeders and Bikes to get around his flanks, drawing his infantry in that direction or making him take them out first, giving you some breathing room.

 

Also remember that his basic troops have no Sergeants, so unless they have an attached character or he has a Marshall they can be susceptible to failing morale tests.

[Atlantic]

I think the Templars are also pretty compelling.

 

For 50 points you can give the whole army preferred enemy and then just give some of the squads furious charge.

 

That is going to be a tough nut to crack for a bolter heavy ultramarine army. The 3 up save is going to keep them alive and when they get into combat you will lose over time.

 

Personally, I think you ought to pass on the Plasma and look at adding Missle Launchers to your list. In fact, if you can run 3 dev squads each with 4 Missle Launchers, I would do that as krak missles are ap 3.

 

If he is running a bunch of rhinos you need to try and pop them in turn 1 or 2 while he is half way across the table (a couple of razorbacks with twin linked las cannons would do the trick) and then focus your fire (12 krak missles) on each squad as they footslog over to you.

 

I think you ought to consider some multi melta attack bikes for popping armour. Then spam missles into the crater.

[DarkGuard]

Actually, if he's running them on foot plasma cannons would be very helpful, also Vindicators. When in Rhinos I agree with missile launchers, but try to get a plasma cannon or two in there.

[Hellios]

I don't think templars are sub-par... maybe not top of the pack but they can put together pretty strong lists but are maybe more limited than some of the more modern codices... Although both choppy templars and shooty templars work. Can you give us more details on his army and how he runs them?

[Febelcrofas]

Basically he generally runs two or three main units of marines, each unit generally has either the emperors champion or a marshall with it so that each unit is as tasty as the other meaning picking who to slam first is always a close call, though I generally go for the emperors champion as there is a bit of a grudge there! He aslo always fields 5 lightning claw termies in a crusader who always absolutely destroy anything with their furious charge and prefered enemy. Then on top he usually has a venerable dreanought with tl las and missile launcher which I usually destroy very quickly. I seem to be able to pop his armour quite well but he always gets me in assault, its that damn prefered enemy!! He also sometimes runs a vindicator but it's a bit of a standing joke that it mostly just fizzles and achieves nothing for him.

[Brother Tual]

I assume his units are large units on foot with plebs mixed in. His list is automatic. It mobs forward and only forward with little actual control coming from your opponent. Exploit this.

 

 

You wont out assault him so dont try. You will out manouvre him if you have the right list but you will always out range him.... always. Focus on movement and range as your keys to victory.

 

 

Its going to take 3 or 4 turns to cross the table (probably why you do well until turn 3 - 4) You have to keep moving to try and extend making combat as long as possible. BT on foot are going to move well but only forward. They cant shift sideways well and are even worse when going back on themselves. This is how you will use movement against your opponent

 

You can make them run back by having a unit behind them. Drop pod dreads are PERFECT as the dread is hard for them to kill (1 A powerfist) and THEN the drop pod before they can move forwards.

 

I assume you have rhinos? Either use them to block his advance or feed them to his large units and ICs to deny them the chance to assault you.

 

refused flank is great, better if you can switch over a few turns or rapidly redeploy. BT are going to struggle to follow your shift in momentum and will most likely miss your core units as a result.

 

 

Range - Basically you will have better guns but heavy weapons will make you slower than your opponent unless you have the right units. Shoot in your opening phase to reduce his range (dread) and mobility (LR) once you have done this you are less restricted in having to actually use your heavy guns. You can afford to move your heavy weapons and move from his advance. Range will come to the fore if/when you have secured this advantage. For example, if you have 8 missiles and your enemy has 4. If you take out 2 of his 4 you can afford to move 4 of yours and still out gun his 2. BT are likely to move his remaining 2 as he knows he cant out shoot you. When this happens you set up 4 and fire whilst moving the other 4. He attacks at your 4 firing missiles then you move them out of his range and use the other 4 you have moved in previous turns to fire from a safe range whilst the unit in danger runs for its little plastic life.

*This is a very basic example - sub in x bolters or whatever but you will always have more range than a BT list.

 

Sourcing low AP is not going to help. No marine unit can kill 20 MEQ in one phase reliably. Even a trio of vindicators is going to struggle. You have 60 MEQ to consider + LR and terminators. That is a big steam rolloer you cant hope to crush by going head to head. All you have to do is not be where he is going. You win.