hobointherain Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Ho there brethren I've been writing fluff for a chapter master for my DIY chapter the Iron Gorgons for a while but struggle to find any inspiration. a large part of this frustration is because I just cant settle on a model to represent said master. I've searched high and low for ideas for conversions and scratch builds but just cant seem to find anything that I think could suitably represent such an individual. Firstly, I considered termi armour but disliked the limitation on weapon loadouts and I really wanted to avoid cliches such as the Lugft Huron figure (although i really do like his power claw) or the Lysander figure. From this I moved onto converting a Sang Guard but this didnt really seem to stand out enough, and he soon became a chapter champion. Soooooo, any suggestions on cool termi conversions or ideas? all are welcome cos I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249022-every-chapter-needs-a-master/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 What sort of load-out will the CM have? I think you should consider this before moving onto what sort of model should represent him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249022-every-chapter-needs-a-master/#findComment-3015866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew J Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Is this more for playing with or just building a cool looking CM? If you are just looking for a different looking CM then you are pretty open to anything I would think but if you are trying to abide by the rules concerning loadouts then you are going to be pretty limited I would think. On the other hand he is the CM, so I would think fluffwise he would have access to ancient relic weapons and anything he really wanted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249022-every-chapter-needs-a-master/#findComment-3015989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
voi shet magir Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Maybe inspiration is hard to find because Chapter Masters aren't really connected to anything. Think of it this way: they have no company to share experiences with, they've probably already had 160+ year careers before they became masters. They aren't even that definitive of their chapters, since even 24th founding chapters have had a few thousand years of history and over a dozen Masters. More importantly, less than half of the chapter even makes it to the firsr company or comparably exalted service. The original space marine lists didn't even allow a chapter master to be fielded, and at best allowed his lieutenant. Make a Sicarius, a Ragnar, or a Tycho. A captain can be a leading, glory-covered figure in his chapter, but also implies that he has a band of companions who have been with him through whatever campaigns and follow him everywhere. If you say captain, I assume he has a company chaplain to be friends or rivals with, a cadre of sergeants, and some trouble getting the rest of the chapter to support or agree with him. [focusing on] Chapter Masters [is sometimes an attempt] to duplicate [for successors] the primarchs' roles in first founding chapters. It's impossible. Primarchs were destined from the start to be bosses and embody their chapters' cultures. Chapter Masters are capping off careers that otherwise look like any other captain's. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249022-every-chapter-needs-a-master/#findComment-3016054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 The first things i think of when i think "Chapter Master" are relic items and living embodiment of the chapter. I dont mentio n my CM often, as my focus is more on the 3rd Co and its characters, but when i do finally make a mini i envision pre-heresy style shoulder pauldrons, intricate scroll work on the armour plates and a load out of combi-bolter and LC - as it would describe visually the nature of my chapter - ruthless and all prepared.They would be items handed down through generations of CM and reflect there status thusly. SO, what does your CM do? does he stay in an admin role or is he a spiritual leader or is he the hardest warrior in a band of seasoned campaigners? MAybe start from there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249022-every-chapter-needs-a-master/#findComment-3016136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 ... Chapter Masters aren't really connected to anything. Think of it this way: they have no company to share experiences with, they've probably already had 160+ year careers before they became masters. They aren't even that definitive of their chapters, since even 24th founding chapters have had a few thousand years of history and over a dozen Masters. More importantly, less than half of the chapter even makes it to the firsr company or comparably exalted service. The original space marine lists didn't even allow a chapter master to be fielded, and at best allowed his lieutenant. Make a Sicarius, a Ragnar, or a Tycho. A captain can be a leading, glory-covered figure in his chapter, but also implies that he has a band of companions who have been with him through whatever campaigns and follow him everywhere. If you say captain, I assume he has a company chaplain to be friends or rivals with, a cadre of sergeants, and some trouble getting the rest of the chapter to support or agree with him. Chapter Masters are sometimes trying to duplicate the primarch role in first founding chapters. It's impossible. Primarchs were destined from the start to be bosses and embody their chapters' cultures. Chapter Masters are capping off careers that otherwise look like any other captain's. I think I completely disagree with everything you've said. Everything you've said in your description completely trivializes the role that in all other places is described as the most prestigious within a Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes, and your description is completely at odds with the descriptions of Chapter Masters in the official sources: To be a Chapter Master is to be a god amongst men...By his example does he inspire men to greater valour, not only the Space Marines at his command, but Imperial Guardsmen, hive militiamen and others besides...If a Chapter Master's personal might is unmatched, then the wider power he wields is nothing short of epic. A Chapter Master is a peer of the Imperium, with authority to act as he wishes according to his own judgement and answerable only to others of his rank... Chapter Masters embody the Chapter and are the ultimate leaders of their respective Chapters. While each is an individual, the average Chapter Master will epitomize his Chapter, its warrior cult, warrior ethos, and personality. While living up to the ideals of their Primarchs is probably common, such could be said of any Space Marine. I doubt that Chapter Masters really try to "duplicate" the Primarchs, instead attempting to live up to the example of their Primarchs (if such are known, that is). The Chapter Masters are the final decision-making authority for an entire Chapter - that is no small feat and definitely not a simple "capping off [of] careers." Those that don't lead a company (it should be remembered that in some Chapters, the Chapter Master leads the First Company or similar, such as in the Crimson Fists, Space Wolves, and Salamanders) have the members of the Honour Guard, the captains, and the other senior officers such as the Chief Librarian, Master of the Forge, and Reclusiarch/Master of Sanctity as their companions. Even then, they have their entire Chapters and all of the resources their Chapters have at their disposal, including fleets of ships, supporting elements of the Chapter, etc. As for the OP, is your intent to use the model in your army, or are you only planning to use the model as a display piece? If you plan on using the model in games, the limitations will be your army list. This might be mitigated by having multiple models or by magnetizing bits (I doubt that every Chapter Master goes to battle equipped the same way every time he enters the fray). From the looks of it, you've decided upon terminator armour, so I'll limit my suggestions to suitably equipped models. Have you looked at Commander Culln of the Red Scorpions? The miniature was initially released representing him as the Commander of the Red Scorpions First Company during the Anphelion Incident, but the events of the Badab War saw him elevated to Lord Commander (Chapter Master) of the Chapter. The head and both arms are separate bits (you get both a bare head and helmeted version), so you can always customize further. The rules for him in Imperial Armour Volume 9 are actually pretty good, though, so other than filing off the Red Scorpions details (unless your chapter uses a similar badge), simply replacing the head might be enough for you. Another alternative is to use either the Sergeant Lorenzo or Sergeant Gideon miniatures from Space Hulk (if you can get your hands on them, that is). Both of those can be further converted, of course. Logan Grimnar might be suitable if you like the wolfiness of him. You might also consider Brother Captain Stern or Lord Kaldor Draigo of the Grey Knights as the basis for a conversion. And kit-bashing is a perfectly viable way to create a customized Chapter Master. You might use any of the models I've suggested to start, adding bits from here and there. Alternately, you might use a the standard Terminator boxed kits for your basis and then add sufficient bling. And never forget that the model/conversion is only part of the equation. How you base and paint the model can also be used to render an appropriate/desired level of Chapter Master coolness. +EDIT+ Also, is the purpose of this discussion to develop the background of your Chapter Master, or is the focus on a model/conversion? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249022-every-chapter-needs-a-master/#findComment-3016167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobointherain Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Hmm I think realistically I'm not gonna be using my chapter master very often in games, I want a cool looking mini just for fluff reasons and maybe for using in the odd rare apoc battle. My chapter is divided into three clans, each led by a clan master. The chapter master is more of an overseer, ensuring that the clans get along and don't do anything detrimental to the chapter as a whole. This isnt to say that he spends his time hunched over a desk in his office moaning about the cost of refuelling the battlebarge. He is of course a chapter master and enjoys mashing heads as much as the next guy. Thanks for the suggestions, I was looking for some inspiration more than anything. Over the past few weeks I've studied many different termi miniatures but none have really lept out at me. I think i've settled on the idea of kit bashing a master together from the standard termi box and maybe convert or scratch up some unique looking weapon to wave above his head in a suitably dramatic manner. quite liking these linky Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249022-every-chapter-needs-a-master/#findComment-3016868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishSmurf96 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Crazy idea... but have a chaplain in charge of the chapter as a spiritual leader who unites the clans in the emperors name? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249022-every-chapter-needs-a-master/#findComment-3017226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobointherain Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 hmm not so hot on the chaplain idea, theyre not really a fire and brimstone chapter. theyre more of a pragmatic chapter. chaplains have their place, getting the communion wine ready for the lads. A crazy skull faced zealot waving a big stick around isn't the kind of guy you want with you when your trying to execute a pin point surgical, hit and run strike on an enemy compound Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249022-every-chapter-needs-a-master/#findComment-3017276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishSmurf96 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Well Templars are are a whole chapter of crazy zealots and they do okay :cuss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249022-every-chapter-needs-a-master/#findComment-3017279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobointherain Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 lol a sound point, the templars have certainly made that work for them. The Iron Gorgons are more likely to think, hmm we could charge like madmen into that HUGE mob of orks over there screaming prayers to the emperor. But I think it would be more entertaining all round to just squash them under a half dozen razorbacks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249022-every-chapter-needs-a-master/#findComment-3017329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishSmurf96 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 What about a master of the forge for the leader? That is something ive never heard off... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249022-every-chapter-needs-a-master/#findComment-3020833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Willy Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I always imagine Chapter Masters as being so larger then life that terminator is the only thing that would fit there image. Thank goodness you have a wonderful terminator kit to destroy. Wargear wise I think Chapter Masters deserve the old counts as weapons, Mine has a Relic Blade that counts as a chainfist, because it s a big Zwihander like what you'd see in Soulcaliber, while another has a smaller power sword that counts as a Lightning claw cause its a super sharp sword. Go for the looks man these guys a super over the top dudes so chuck as many purity seals and scrolls you can find onto an assault terminator, green stuff something massive onto one of the shoulders and fianally slap a big ol'banner on his back. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249022-every-chapter-needs-a-master/#findComment-3020838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobointherain Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 yeh I'm gonna pimp him out big style, gonna give him a pair of lightning claws from chapterhouse and slap a cape and some scrolls on that badboy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249022-every-chapter-needs-a-master/#findComment-3021216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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