GodEmperorOfMankind Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Hi guys, I'm having second thoughts on playing a BA successor chapter. I love the fluff and having assault squads as troop choices, and I'm looking forward to having lots of rhino/rb's disgorging them. But. I'm disappointed by the lack of love for things like thunderfire cannons and achilles landraiders. I've always loved my big shooty guns. Help me by either telling me how I can get some big shooty guns or else what I should do with my marines. Cheers Ad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 well, I have no idea if we can legally take the Achilles Land Raider (haven't seen the rules for it yet). Kind of stinks losing the TFire. I personally use Vindicators for big shooty guns. Can't beat a 12 inch move followed by a vindicator shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamwulf Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 BA and the successor chapters are not known for shooting. It's all about the assault for them. All the units are fast or have some way to get to the assault fast. If you prefer shooting, maybe you should look elsewhere for an army? It's not that BA can't shoot- you can make a pretty good shooting list with 'em. You are not playing to the strengths of the Blood Angels though. Sure, you lose things like T-Fire Cannons, Achilles Land Raiders... but look at what you gain! Sanguinary Guard! Sanguinary Priests! Librarian Furioso Dreadnoughts! Death Company! Baal Predator fast tanks! Storm Ravens! And don't forget... Deep striking Land Raiders! The Red Thirst! Descent of Angels! You gain so much more than you lose by playing Blood Angels (and the successor chapters). Consider this: There are six turns in a typical game with a potential 12 close combat phases for you to fight in. How many shooting phases do you get? 6. Unless you can utterly dominate the shooting phase (see IG Leaf blower lists or some Tau builds, heck even Eldar), you have to plan for the assault. Why not play an army that gives you more advantages in close combat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 We do lose the Tfire etc but we get fast rhino variants and Apothocaries as IC as well as the Baal pred and S/raven. Perhaps use the armies speed to set up fire traps with Typhoons and Whirlwinds. OR do as i have and concede that a BA successor might fight on occasion in a a manner that, to teh untrained eye, would seem to be exactly like a codex army!!.In other words, make a list for RedUltras.I do this because i love MotF, t/fire and tac squads. There your minis and your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodunius Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Since you want to use the Achilles which'll mean using Imperial Armour 10 have you considered using BA/succ models for a Siege Vanguard list? I've been considering doing this but mostly because of the idea of BA Tacs with Siege Mantlets led by a not-Sicarius modelled after the BA commander on the cover of EPIC 40,000 rather than for the big guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Hi guys, I'm having second thoughts on playing a BA successor chapter. I love the fluff and having assault squads as troop choices, and I'm looking forward to having lots of rhino/rb's disgorging them. But. I'm disappointed by the lack of love for things like thunderfire cannons and achilles landraiders. I've always loved my big shooty guns. Help me by either telling me how I can get some big shooty guns or else what I should do with my marines. Cheers Ad I always thought that the relation with an army transcends the list options for juicy hardware... I think you should be attracted to the overall background of the BAs and view the limitiations of the list as a challenge to overcome rather than a weakness. Building an army is a long term commitment and could outlast the current codex. If having access to Thunderfire Cannon is so important to you, go for a standard SM army, paint it red(ish) and call them someting with blood in their name... But then you won't have access to assault squads as troops... or the BA special characters... or Death Company... or many other things that make BAs what they are. I really don't get it. And I do not mean any disrespect here, but I really don't. Why do you like BAs? If you like them because of the background you should embrace the limitations of the list and play to its advantages. BAs are pretty competitive as many that have more expirience than I with this army (or any army for that matter) will testify. So it's not like you are penalised, you dont get the T-Cannon, true, but you get other stuff that other armies do not have access to. Having said that, maybe you should consider if BAs is the army for you. Big guns is not the signature style for BAs (although probably there are shooty or more shooty builds out there) so if that's what you like, maybe you should look for chapters with the apporpriate background and the lists to support it... Just my 2c. EDIT: or do what Vodunius said.. :sick: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 As JamesI said, fast Vindicators. It don't get much shootier than that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperorOfMankind Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 Thanks all, no offense taken with any replies, I appreciate the comments. I think I just miss the coolness of new toys (achilles LR) and being able to plonk them on a table and watch my friends evacuate their bowels. Fast Rhinos and Baals have swung it for me, not to mention the BA and successors will need all the help they can get with all the hurt coming their way. Can Vindi's really move 12 and shoot? if so woo! I'll need to get me one of those! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Can Vindi's really move 12 and shoot? if so woo! I'll need to get me one of those! Yep. Before this codex I never used a Vindi. Now I use 2 every game I play mech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atrix Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 If I remember correctly, the Blood Drinkers is a BA successor chapter that is actually a codex chapter. Thus combining the BA successor fluff with codex cannons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Technically, BA are a codex chapter as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainLNH Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Vindicator is the best, mine scares the crap out of anyone after they learn I can go 12' and fire the large blast ap-2 str. 10 cannon... And you must put the siege shield on it, so it can move through terrain pieces and totally suprise your opponent who thought that ruin blocked your movement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinarian Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Vindicator is the best, mine scares the crap out of anyone after they learn I can go 12' and fire the large blast ap-2 str. 10 cannon...And you must put the siege shield on it, so it can move through terrain pieces and totally suprise your opponent who thought that ruin blocked your movement... The scatter die scares the crap out of me 9/10 times! My Vindicator couldn't hit the broadside of a ruined building!?! You would think shooting direct fire at something less than 12" away is toast, but I'll be gosh-darned if it scatters away everytime. Devastators (4ML) are cheaper and more accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperorOfMankind Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 Vindicator is the best, mine scares the crap out of anyone after they learn I can go 12' and fire the large blast ap-2 str. 10 cannon...And you must put the siege shield on it, so it can move through terrain pieces and totally suprise your opponent who thought that ruin blocked your movement... This! I'm sold on fast vindi's and siege shields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Stormravens Land Raider dedicated transports that can deep strike Feel no Pain Devastators Fast Vindicators, Predators and Whirlwinds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Vindicator is the best, mine scares the crap out of anyone after they learn I can go 12' and fire the large blast ap-2 str. 10 cannon...And you must put the siege shield on it, so it can move through terrain pieces and totally suprise your opponent who thought that ruin blocked your movement... The scatter die scares the crap out of me 9/10 times! My Vindicator couldn't hit the broadside of a ruined building!?! You would think shooting direct fire at something less than 12" away is toast, but I'll be gosh-darned if it scatters away everytime. Devastators (4ML) are cheaper and more accurate. Precisely. The Vindi is pretty scary... when it hits... and the target isn't in cover... and it wasn't shaken, stunned, immobilised at a bad angle or had it's gun destroyed... and isn't out of range... so yeah, it's not really scary, truth be told... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abraxes Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 How much experience do you have with the Thunderfire Cannon? For spitballing sake...prior to the release of our current BA 'dex, I fielded my BA army under the vanilla SM 'dex for a change of pace from the old BA PDF codex days... I took the Thunderfire cannon on multiple occasions and as many members who have used one would probably openly attest to, it is extremely fragile and ill suited for rapid moving and striking armies, IE: BA. It can't move and shoot. It can't come down in a droppod and immediately shoot either. You can put it in cover but a glancing hit will shut it down fast. Almost laughably so. The quad templates of destruction are lots of fun but there are few - if any - 40k armies that don't have at least one unit that can reach out and shoot it apart before it even gets to fire. It's a huge target opportunity that is easily engaged and destroyed. I think out of 4 ancient history games that easily come to mind, I managed little more than 2 or 3 shots before it was slagged outright. The T-cannon isn't an option in the new BA 'dex as you know, but IMHO at least, that's a good thing as we can turn to far superior heavy firepower options that won't die on you when the enemy so much as shines a flashlight on you. Others have mentioned vindis and devs already, but have you considered rifleman dreads or whirlies if you're stuck on template weapons? My 2 cents. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 And you must put the siege shield on it, so it can move through terrain pieces and totally suprise your opponent who thought that ruin blocked your movement... careful here matey -the one has nothing to do with the other. The only thing a shield does is allow you to ignore DT - if something is declared impassible to vehicles, its still impassible to vehicles. You need to declare how vehicles move through various terrain features including ruin walls as the rules make provision for moving through, and not moving through! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Seeing as Blood Angels perform best as a mobile shooting list, I find this thread ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Seeing as Blood Angels perform best as a mobile shooting list, I find this thread ironic. +1 interwebz. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysteriousmaskedmystery Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 we have the ball predator, which is a gun that will do far more for you than the tfire ever would. we have SGV which are as shooty a unit as any SM army can get. and the fast vindi is just awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 we have the ball predator... Isn't that a 40 year old woman that hangs around in bars? I love the fluff and having assault squads as troop choices, and I'm looking forward to having lots of rhino/rb's disgorging them. I'm disappointed by the lack of love for things like thunderfire cannons and achilles landraiders. I've always loved my big shooty guns. Help me by either telling me how I can get some big shooty guns or else what I should do with my marines. Decide between fluff and rules then. You can get assault marines in rhinos is a regular marine army. Maybe it's time to paint your models yellow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperorOfMankind Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 Thanks Xenith but I'm sold on the Baal preds and fast vindi's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barduck Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Mephiston!! 'nuf said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 We have AutoLas Predators that can move and shoot all 3 weapons. I never need to see a Thunderfire cannon in my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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