Hand to Hand Domination Grey Hunters + WG

[Tybrus]

SO I have played a few games the last month or so, and the players from the LGS when we would play would be caught off guard to say the least and they follow it up with wanting to see the rules etc.

 

That said what I am talking about is what I call my Hand to Hand Domination Squad. I include in my list every time a full ten man grey hunter pack with the "Works" which for me is...

 

1 GH with Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol, standard, and Meltagun

1 GH With Meltagun, CCW, BP

1 GH With Mark of Wulfun, Bolit Pistol, and Bolter

1 GH with Bolter, Plasma Pistiol, CCW

6 GH with Bolter, BP, CCW

 

1 Wolf Guard With Bolter, bolt pistiol, Mark of Wulfun, melta bobmbs(If needed)

 

(Please I refuse to put a melta on the Wulfen so no help please on how this helps with wounds etc. I understand that I simply will not do it)

 

That Said this squad on a Charge/Counter Charge gets 2D6+4 Rending, 2x8 Str 4, 1x3 str Powerweapon Attacks for a total Avg 7+4(11) Rending, 16 CCW str 4 attacks, 3 str 4 Powerweapon attacks OR 1 Meltabomb vs Armor.

 

Now I love this pack and its my go to assault pack, but everyone at the club act like it is not only the chessest thing ever, as well and the biggest rapping of the rules ever. Now I disagree, but my surprise is that by there reaction have never seen before.

 

Does anyone else use this?

 

If so how does your group react?

 

and lastly any thoughts?

[auto]

248 points for all that, without any sort of transport.

 

Not cheesy. Just a lot of points into 11 T4 wounds.

 

Why not lose one GH and get them a rhino?

[Forté]

248 points for all that, without any sort of transport.

 

Not cheesy. Just a lot of points into 11 T4 wounds.

 

Why not lose one GH and get them a rhino?

He'd lose the second Melta. Plasma guns may work better for foot slogging.

[hendrik]

but plasma would prevent him from charging :sick:

to the OP, have you tried them aswell with dual flamer? since they are a hand to hand unit these would seem fit aswell. i understand the reasoning about the meltaguns though, this makes an opponent hesitant to send in things like dreadnoughts etc

[Vantius]

You should have 3x8 strength 4 attacks (on the chardge). Not 2x8. Big difference. Also, if you were using a melta bomb, your number of rending hits would be reduced.

 

Throw in a wolf standard for added fun as well!!!

 

I havent ever had anyone huff and puff about such squads, but i have seen some less than happy faces when I tell people they have countercharge and bp/ccw.

[littlbitz]

I do run with a similiar 10 man foot-slogging pack, but I put the Melta's on seperate models instead of stacking wargear on individuals.

 

The other difference, is that I use a Wolfguard in Terminator armor with an Assault Cannon and a Power Fist. People hate that pack, they are hard to shift off of an objective, and getting too close to them is certain death for many.

 

I do like the Mark on the Wolfguard idea, and this may be just the excuse I need to model up one.

[Khine]

If your not going to put them in a rhino; this wolfguard set up can be fun.

 

Wolfguard - Terminator armour, storm shield, Mark of the wulfen, Cyclone missile launcher, combi-melta.

[Spinsanity]

If your not going to put them in a rhino; this wolfguard set up can be fun.

 

Wolfguard - Terminator armour, storm shield, Mark of the wulfen, Cyclone missile launcher, combi-melta.

Carefull with the CombiMelta, wording of the CML says he can shoot his Strombolter in addition to the CML, not anything else... Thus no missile+melta or even missile+bolter if you take a combi-weapon along with the Cyclone...

[Khine]

If your not going to put them in a rhino; this wolfguard set up can be fun.

 

Wolfguard - Terminator armour, storm shield, Mark of the wulfen, Cyclone missile launcher, combi-melta.

Carefull with the CombiMelta, wording of the CML says he can shoot his Strombolter in addition to the CML, not anything else... Thus no missile+melta or even missile+bolter if you take a combi-weapon along with the Cyclone...

 

The combi melta is there incase a strong vehicle gets close. or use a flamer instead if you dont want to risk two scattering frags.

[Matt D]

i love the idea of these guys in a LR redeemer but, MAN, that is a lot of points for one troop choice!

[Simo429]

Its certainly not cheesy

 

If you are going to put ~250 into a hard hitting unit take a tricked out thunderwolf unit.

 

I just see that as a massive waste of points. Grey Hunters are the best troops in the game becuase they are undercosted and a jack of all trades. Pour too many many points into them and they become worthless.

 

I'd actually prefer 15 blood claws over what you are taking.

[Wulfebane]

Arjac.

[WG Vrox]

Seriously, if you are going to be taking that type of unit put in the wolf standard, best 10 points you will spend. Think about the re-roll opportunities you would have including re-rolling your D6 rending rolls if they come up 1s.

 

I take a unit much like this but Arjac joins them in my LLC. Yes lots of points but there is nothing on the table the unit will avoid and is my key spearhead unit in a 2k list.

 

10 GH

1 flamer

1 melta

1 MotW

1 PP

1 standard.

1 Power Weapon

Arjac.

[Wulfebane]

Seriously, if you are going to be taking that type of unit put in the wolf standard, best 10 points you will spend. Think about the re-roll opportunities you would have including re-rolling your D6 rending rolls if they come up 1s.

 

That said what I am talking about is what I call my Hand to Hand Domination Squad. I include in my list every time a full ten man grey hunter pack with the "Works" which for me is...

 

1 GH with Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol, standard, and Meltagun

1 GH With Meltagun, CCW, BP

1 GH With Mark of Wulfun, Bolit Pistol, and Bolter

1 GH with Bolter, Plasma Pistiol, CCW

6 GH with Bolter, BP, CCW

 

1 Wolf Guard With Bolter, bolt pistiol, Mark of Wulfun, melta bobmbs(If needed)

 

 

He did. It's there. Everyone chillax. Let's move on.

[Tybrus]

Seriously, if you are going to be taking that type of unit put in the wolf standard, best 10 points you will spend. Think about the re-roll opportunities you would have including re-rolling your D6 rending rolls if they come up 1s.

 

That said what I am talking about is what I call my Hand to Hand Domination Squad. I include in my list every time a full ten man grey hunter pack with the "Works" which for me is...

 

1 GH with Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol, standard, and Meltagun

1 GH With Meltagun, CCW, BP

1 GH With Mark of Wulfun, Bolit Pistol, and Bolter

1 GH with Bolter, Plasma Pistiol, CCW

6 GH with Bolter, BP, CCW

 

1 Wolf Guard With Bolter, bolt pistiol, Mark of Wulfun, melta bobmbs(If needed)

 

 

He did. It's there. Everyone chillax. Let's move on.

 

LOL thanks Wulf, I have to admit all the most about taking one made me go back and check my OP...

 

As for the two Melta's over plasma or flamers. I do not care for the Plasmagun in general and only use cannons and pistols in my lists. Just personal taste. As for flamers I don't use them because the hits they cause tend to ensure my unit wipes out their target on the charge. I prefer to kill them in the second round of hand to hand (My foes turn) so they are free to move as needed on their next turn. The Melta guns give 2 (if they hit) hits that will drop a termi or landrander, and they still have a BP is needed. I run 4 packs of these with the only difference being the wolf guard almost every game (3 at the least). They come in at 215 or 210 points without WG and IMHO can take anything in the game on and have a good chance to win.

 

 

My real question comes down to if a WG with Mark is a good add for a pure H2H unit. I tend to run WG's with Hammer and SB, or Termi armor and gear (Heavy weapons if able). I two love the Termi with Chainfist and Assault cannon as a back up for my squads and have used them to great effect. However, I think the Marked WG might just be the powerhouse in H2H i have been missing in large (read mob) units. I have never had a unit of Grey Hunters fail me, though they have died to a man when required.

[WG Vrox]

Even though rending does provide the ability to take down high T/AV targets, it is to unreliable for my tastes thus I would feel very uncomfortable running a squad such at this without a Str 8 weapon.

[DanPesci]

i think the same on the wulfen front, already having one wulfen in the squad is good enough for me, so ill always take PF on my wolf guard. Although i agree with Tybrus that they can be awesome if you roll right, id prefer the security of knowing that after all those attacks go in, I still have 2-3 S8 attacks that ignore saves (as generally, your on most turns at best gonna get 1, maybe 2 successful 'rending' hits from the guys with MOTW).

If you knew you were up against horders/crap armour, then the 2nd wulfen may be good, but id stick with the powerfist for a bit more anti vehicle//dread/power armour+

 

good unit though.

I like to run my GH units in 7-8 with teh wolf guard, but a full 10 man unit fully kitted out can be a lovely thing :)

 

And always a laugh when the other player doesnt realise 1. that you count as having 2xCC weapons and 2. You have counter charge

[DanPesci]

but everyone at the club act like it is not only the chessest thing ever, as well and the biggest rapping of the rules ever.

 

take it none of them use blood angels flying dreadnoughts then? :)

[archangel23]

I find it funny when people conplain about this stuff. They are usually the ones who take the fewest men to get the bonus weapons and such. It makes me laugh when they complain that we would do the same.

 

In one of my squads I have 10 strong. Two have meltas, one has a powerfist, a standard bearer and a plasma pistol. Not to mention my WG makes it eleven men and he has a storm bolter and a powerfist.

 

The last time they were unleashed they wiped the floor with the ork player I was against. They also took out two trucks that went with them. Its great when greenskins run away.

 

I say let them whine because when they can use the rules again you, they will.

[hendrik]

but everyone at the club act like it is not only the chessest thing ever, as well and the biggest rapping of the rules ever.

 

take it none of them use blood angels flying dreadnoughts then? ^_^

now that's something i can relate to! those things are just brutal and ruin my army game after game.

 

@tybrus, i see the reasoning in not wanting to deal too much damage on the charge, hadn't thought of that!

[Blacksad]

I often use a WG with MotW, but only in my scouts pack, because they most more often than not go up against Long Range Support Units, not Vehicles.

[Tybrus]

I often use a WG with MotW, but only in my scouts pack, because they most more often than not go up against Long Range Support Units, not Vehicles.

 

 

Nice Idea I hadn't thought of that. I send a WG with Stormshield and Frontblade with mine. HE costs a ton but always earns his points back with his I4 S5 attacks. I know I lose one for the SS but I have held and taken enough objectives with this build that 3+ inv really saves not just him but the squad. I have risked him many times in H2H vs. a PW hit. In 8 games with them he has only died twice, and never has the squad failed to make backs its points.

 

In fact their first game I ever ran them was vs. guard. He had some power to let a squadron of Leman Russ' to outflank. They were armoed with twin AC's sponsons of something like plasma maybe I don't recall. and of course the hull Laz. They moved on and let lose hell, killing a few things but nothing major as I was just killing his reaming forces. and he was counting on the tanks to break me. Long story short I get reserves get my scouts get to come in where I want, all scouts have Meltabombs and the 1 Melta gun, and boom boom no tanks.

 

That said I always fully tool up my scout packs

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

I am going to come right out and ask this: You have a single GH with FOUR upgrades on him, what happens if you fail his save (yes, I understand he is the last one to put wounds onto...)?? So the six 'dorks' are for any shots taken at the pack, or auto-kills once in CC.

 

I play the wound allocation game in my Logan Wing and in my TWC packs, so I understand the basis behind the tactic. But explain to me how and why this is good on a footslogging pack with no invulnerable saves or vehicle please. I am asking for the sake of knowledge.

 

End of Line

[Tybrus]

I am going to come right out and ask this: You have a single GH with FOUR upgrades on him, what happens if you fail his save (yes, I understand he is the last one to put wounds onto...)?? So the six 'dorks' are for any shots taken at the pack, or auto-kills once in CC.

 

I play the wound allocation game in my Logan Wing and in my TWC packs, so I understand the basis behind the tactic. But explain to me how and why this is good on a footslogging pack with no invulnerable saves or vehicle please. I am asking for the sake of knowledge.

 

End of Line

 

 

I know everyone plays differently and this tactic might not be for everyone. For me it breaks down along the lines of basic "meat" vs. Upgrades. When I run the 11 man squads most of the time I also take a rhino. The advance in a double line behind the rhinos. I always run at least 3 of these packs if not more. In front of them I have been placing 2 stock preds with Heavy bolters and dozer blades, and a Vindi. It becomes a wall of Av 13, followed by a wall of av11 in front of my troops. If my toops take a single death they ncan jump into the rhino and fire 2 melta's out the top. The Front wall draws most of the fire and the few shots that do go after the GH never do more then 3 kills, which leads to my dunebuggy of melta death!.

 

Take from it what you will...

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

I see, so you tailor your list to support these packs. I like the idea quite a lot, and might need to try it out for next weeks game.

 

End of Line