BlissGiver Vs Tyranids

[UglyWretch]

Playing against a friend next week, and I know he's using a Tervigon AND a Tyranofex.

What I'd like advice on, is whether a Lord (Term?) With BlissGiver would be a good idea against them? I'm thinking of taking Tzeentch Possessed Marines in a LandRaider anyway, but BlissGiver would go first, and kill EVERYTHING! What does everyone think?

[minigun762]

Its a reasonable idea but I see 3 issues.

1) You're only wounding on 6's most of the time.

2) You always have the chance to roll a 1 with a daemon weapon.

3) Taking a lord(s) means 1 less daemon prince on the board.

 

If its a fun game and you already have the model made up, I think it could work. In a more competitive scenario, I wouldn't rely on it.

[UglyWretch]

-ssue 1: it may be wounding on 6s, but there's at least 5 attacks (?), and I only need one 6.

Issue 2: Yeah, I know, but it's a 1 in 6 (I'm unlucky, but hopefully not THAT unlucky)

Issue 3: I hardly ever use Daemon Princes. They never do me any good and always get shot the pieces.

[Brother Nihm]

it may be wounding on 6s, but there's at least 5 attacks (?), and I only need one 6.

Not great odds y'know.

 

Why not go with a Nurgle DW instead?

Wounds on 4+ and ignores armour.

[Caffeineated Chaos]

Issue 3: I hardly ever use Daemon Princes. They never do me any good and always get shot the pieces.

Take better care of your princes. Always make sure they have wings.

And if they get shot to pieces then they served at least one of their functions, they drew fire away from our other units. That's also why you usually take two, so that one gets left alone to do something beyond being a bullet magnet

[UglyWretch]

Tyranofex/Tervigon have 6 wounds, so I'd be better off with an InstaKill.

 

And any Daemon Prince I've ever even seen used, gets shot and dies in the first turn. Honestly, I don't know if I've just got the worst Die rolls in the world, but in our games they just aren't worth their points.

[Excessus]

The trick is to multi-assault it together with a bunch of gants and just focus your attacks on the gants(well, put the champ with a fist in BtB with mr. big ofc)! Then if you win the big nasty critter will have to take quite a few fearless wounds if he's in hivemind range and if not you are likely to run him down with your high initiative and his low Ld! :lol:

[Panda_]

-ssue 1: it may be wounding on 6s, but there's at least 5 attacks (?), and I only need one 6.

Just a clarification, this is not the great odds that you expect because you have to hit first. You can't reasonably assume 5 hits.

[Kristoff]

Tyranofex/Tervigon have 6 wounds, so I'd be better off with an InstaKill.

 

Good thing Blissgiver can ID then, eh?

 

And any Daemon Prince I've ever even seen used, gets shot and dies in the first turn. Honestly, I don't know if I've just got the worst Die rolls in the world, but in our games they just aren't worth their points.

 

So return the favor. Oh, right, 'Nids usually have a plethora of MCs. Move along. Nothing to see here.

[UglyWretch]

Tervigon's WS is 3, so Lord'd be hitting on 3s. 3 attacks as standard, +2(min) and +1 for assaulting? So that's at least 4 which should hit, then fingers crossed for 6s.

Plus, he'd be backed up by 9 Possessed Marines.

I'm quite confident.

 

The only other option is to put him in Terminator armour, have the 10 Possessed charge up with an Icon and drop the lord 6" from the LandRainder, but I don't know if you can assault from deepstrike. :s

[the jeske]

you cant . and for the love of god . why are you trying to hurt stuff , which is more dangerous to you in hth , by doing hth to it? a tyranofex sure has a str 10 , but it is BS 3 . it has a 50% chance to miss and then the str 10 weapon has to get through cover and it is a huge model . same with the tervigon[only that doesnt shot and when it dies it kills guants too] . if your trying to tailor a list you should be runing pms or csm with plasma , max oblits to maxmize the number of wounds with ap 3 str7+ while having enough troops in cover to not worry about stealer or guant attacks .

I mean realy possessed . random rolls on buff and unless you roll rending or power weapons they are doing , what tar piting the MC ? because they aint going to kill it with str 5 and no power weapons/fists and the fex is going to target the eternal warrior-less lord [and to be sure to almost always get a 6 on wounds you would either have to use loaded dice or have 13+attacks]. I mean even zerkers will do more wounds because their champ has a fist and more A then a possessed champ .

[UglyWretch]

I've got to go on the attack. I know the list he's using (I helped himwrite it) and he's got Venomthropes covering Tyrano and Terv, plus, I know for a fact he's not gonna move Terv out of cover and try to make sure I can't see it at all. Not to mention he's got Biovores and Hive Guard. So the only option I've got is to kill the Terv before I drown inGaunts.

[Trevak Dal]

No, only Lesser and Greater Daemons can attack from Deepstrike (you would think taking a mark that boosted one's initiative stat might lend itself to being able to assault from deepstrike. Maybe a new USR for 6th?)

 

I haven't had much luck with Daemon Weapon guys. Being strength 4 is what kills the concept. And only +1 initiative (I believe he becomes I6 with it) means he'll probably be going before the Big Nasty, but all the Lil-Gribblies (and the god of Rockso the Rock N Roll Clown help you if he's got genestealers backing Big Nasty up) cause he's gonna get beat (though if he's Slaanesh marked...)

 

It's a gamble, where the odds are stacked way against you. If he's smart, he'll go "Oh, that's the instant death one right?" and then drown him in chum, or shoot him (and his unit) off the table.

[Brother Ambroz]

I thought it was a great idea as well a year or two ago. Back when Crons had their old dex, I took a MoS lord with DW against a destroyer lord. Turn 5 they charged and...... neither of us did anything. Next turn the same thing and the next when finally the game ended. Neither one of us could harm one another. Him because he only had a few attacks and me because I had to roll a 5. Honestly....if I were you and wanted to take a termi armored lord I'd go with Typhus or Abbadon counts as (respectively). Typhus has a force weapon so you're good there and Abby because he'd probably end up killing it by himself before anyone else got to strike.

 

Really though if you want to just go for it. It's not a TERRIBLE idea just a few better choices is all. It's one bad old dex against another so it shouldnt go too terribly.

[Brother RedAxe]

I must have the best luck in the world then. Every time i put my termie lord in HTH with any nid MC I seem to get at least 4 extra attacks and always get at least one wound through making one dead MC. I love the blissgiver and use it every time and manage to hand out ID at least twice.

[khurdur]

It's not a bad idea...but you'll have to be a bit lucky. You've got 3 attacks, +1 for the charge, and +1 D6. Lets call it 4+4- 8 attacks, 4 hits, and 4 rolls to get a 6. You ought to get it....but if you don't the big gribbly will punish him by eating him.....

[UglyWretch]

This is where knowledge of the other player comes in. I'll just tell him it's a Slaanesh Lord. He won't ask questions. He's confident with his 'Nids.

They's gonna LandRaider close (Lord + Tzeentch Possessed) and then assault. I'm going to make sure my lord won't be in base contact, but within 2" of one that is- the way I understand it, the Lord has to be in base contact to have the attacks directed at him, so 4+ invul Possessed take the brunt.

[UglyWretch]

I also know he doesn't use Genestealers. He's "gone off" them

[totgeboren]

I have been contemplating this idea myself, and I reacted somewhat when people say "You need a 6, and that is really hard".

I have a Lord with a Tzeentch daemon weapon (don't ask, it sucks), who has put wounds on nid monsters many times, so I felt I had to take a look at the numbers.

 

#Hits | Chance of rolling a 6 to wound

1 17%

2 31%

3 42%

4 52%

5 60%

 

I only did up to 5 hits, because that is exactly the number of hits a Chaos lord with a Blissgiver would get on average when assaulting. So you are looking at a slightly better than 50% chance of taking down a monster before they get to swing. The monster wont ID you back, but a Trygon stands a fairly good chance of killing your lord by normal attacks anyway.

[King Willy]

Independent characters have to be in base contact to attack, can't use that 2'' inch thing, also you can try it you may win it will be epic but if you fail you'll get stomped either first turn combat or second, he only has three attacks so may muff them up and at least you won't get ID and you got a 5++.

 

Don't worry to much bout the Tyfex, it's big scary S 10 gun is only two ap4 shots so keep rhinos in cover or hot box them SOBs.

 

Your better of getting as much plas on field as possible just proxy the possessed if you can, maybe chosen with five plasma or even the Oblits.

[UglyWretch]

He's not using a Trygon, so the biggest things on thr field are the Tervigon and Tyranofex.

 

I'm gonna use the Blissgiver anyway. I'd be damn unlucky if it didn't work, and even if it didn't, it's still gonna be fun to try. I'll still have my Tzeentch Possessed, LandRaider and whatever else I get in my 1000 points.

I only play for fun. My life's too damn serious to get worked up about a game.

[Azatoth]

This is where knowledge of the other player comes in. I'll just tell him it's a Slaanesh Lord. He won't ask questions. He's confident with his 'Nids.

They's gonna LandRaider close (Lord + Tzeentch Possessed) and then assault. I'm going to make sure my lord won't be in base contact, but within 2" of one that is- the way I understand it, the Lord has to be in base contact to have the attacks directed at him, so 4+ invul Possessed take the brunt.

 

If you do that it would be cheating ruleswise FYI.

[UglyWretch]

I won't be cheating at all. My list will be there, written up, with all wargear stated. I just know the other player won't bother reading it. So if he asks who the model with the Possessed is, I'll say it's just a Lord. He'll only want to know if it was Lucious or another named character.

It's his ignorance that will defeat him- THAT'S IF IT EVEN WORKS!

[King Willy]

He means having your lord 2 inches from the enemy, IC have to be in b2b to attack

[the jeske]

yep.

 

 

 

So you are looking at a slightly better than 50% chance of taking down a monster before they get to swing.

only for 5hits he would have to roll a 4+bonus attacks on the demonic weapon and then he still gets ID half the time .