BlissGiver Vs Tyranids

[totgeboren]

So you are looking at a slightly better than 50% chance of taking down a monster before they get to swing.

only for 5hits he would have to roll a 4+bonus attacks on the demonic weapon and then he still gets ID half the time .

 

Nah, he would only need to roll a 3.5 on a D6, the exact average. If he rolls a 4 on the charge, he gets 5.33 hits.

On average, if I take the '1=no attacks at all' into account, he gets 4.39 hits when assaulting, meaning he on average has 0.53 chance of killing a Nid monster on the assault.

[Brother Ambroz]

Just take skulltaker. He'll rip them all to shreds.

[the jeske]

meaning he on average has 0.53 chance of killing a Nid monster on the assault.

and the other 0.5 he gets ID. awesome considering the HQ does nothing at range , nothing for the list other then hth and can end up dead without doing anything.

[UglyWretch]

Ah, MathHammer: ruining fun for 25 years! :D

 

Who cares? There's a chance I'm gonna get a six. Out of about 5 hits, it's not impossible. I'm just gonna try it. If you lot wanna sit here, scrutinise your codice for the best stats/ rules and then MathHammer the crap out of it so you end up with a soulless, boring Tournament list- GO AHEAD!

 

I play for fun. I don't care about getting better.

Ok, I asked if it was worth using because it's not fun to not even stand a chance. You say I've got 0.53 percent? That's a chance and I'll take it.

 

(Wait for all the tournie player abuse now! :D )

[totgeboren]

meaning he on average has 0.53 chance of killing a Nid monster on the assault.

and the other 0.5 he gets ID. awesome considering the HQ does nothing at range , nothing for the list other then hth and can end up dead without doing anything.

 

Neither the Tervigon nor the Tyrannofex has a high enough Strength to ID a Lord, and both are quite frankly not all that good in cc either way, so you are definitely not looking at a 100% chance of getting your lord killed if he doesn't kill the beast on his first try.

 

And what I was trying to point out with my mathhammering was that the Lord stands a fairly good chance of doing what the OP was hoping for, when some posters said things like "but you need a six to wound, that is way too hard!"

 

I think the math and the fun coincided, which can hardly be a bad thing imo.

[UglyWretch]

Well, that's fair enough, so I appologise if I caused you offense. I just don't like it when people mathhammer themselves out of using units they like. :D

[Brother Nihm]

They could be offering up mathhammer examples to give you something more concrete than bitter experience. :D

[UglyWretch]

I meant in general.

 

I have plenty of bitter experience. :D

[Xenith]

Playing against a friend next week, and I know he's using a Tervigon AND a Tyranofex.

What I'd like advice on, is whether a Lord (Term?) With BlissGiver would be a good idea against them? I'm thinking of taking Tzeentch Possessed Marines in a LandRaider anyway, but BlissGiver would go first, and kill EVERYTHING! What does everyone think?

 

Youd have better odds with a MOT sorceror and gift of chaos.

[Spacefrisian]

If you want a Lord, than stick with Khârn, hits on 2, wounds on 4/5 with 7/6 attacks. That is if you want to go for close combat those big T6 W6 things.

 

Otherwise just start with 3x3 Obliterators and out shoot him, 9 lascannons are bound to kill something, and that 5+ coversaves isnt the best cover anyway.

[UglyWretch]

Tried it.

 

Failed.

 

I'm not accepting that as a loss though, as we both had a good time, and in CC, the Daemon Weapon rolled 1s every time (told you I was unlucky). Still, a good game, and I think ANYONE. Other than me would probably have succeeded.

 

I don't hold with hiding from my opponent. That's a wimpy Tournament tactic and has no honour. :)

(I'm spacing everything to make it easier for when you quote me to slag me off)

[Brother Nihm]

No need for slagging.

 

Try fielding him in a few games more and you will most likely agree that the odds of getting a Blissgiver ID vs Mcs are at best, unfavourable.

 

Then try and field a Nurgle Lord with a DW and wound those buggers on 4+ & no-save.

[UglyWretch]

Yeah, I've made one of those too, I just thought it'd be more fun to try and one-shot it. The BlissGiver struck back every combat (I really AM that unlucky) so I never saw if it'd work either way.

 

Still, got a 500 point 7 player mash up in a week or so, and we've disallowed named HQs.

BlissGiver may shine there. :)

[Spacefrisian]

I don't hold with hiding from my opponent. That's a wimpy Tournament tactic and has no honour. :rolleyes:

(I'm spacing everything to make it easier for when you quote me to slag me off)

 

 

Its not a wimpy tactic if you are hiding in ambush style and making the enemy blunder into youre trap. :lol:

[Sanguinius Chosen Wing]

Playing against a friend next week, and I know he's using a Tervigon AND a Tyranofex.

What I'd like advice on, is whether a Lord (Term?) With BlissGiver would be a good idea against them? I'm thinking of taking Tzeentch Possessed Marines in a LandRaider anyway, but BlissGiver would go first, and kill EVERYTHING! What does everyone think?

 

Not slagging you off but it seems odd that you asked for advice and then When people offered you alternatives you told them they didn't know his list and that they were sucking the fun out of the game by using maths to factually offer you a solution. If the bliss giver is something you don't want to be math hammered out of why ask if it was a good idea? Just something for you to think on, if you don't want the tournie Internet list don't go looking on the Internet for answers

[UglyWretch]

I was initially just trying to make sure the Insta-kill rule would actually work on a Monsterous Creature, and probably hoping to hear some glorious stories.

 

Instead, as always, I get people who'd rather shoot someone down than lift them up.

If you think I should expect this sort of "advice" whenever I ask a civil question, then it proves that the internet is truely full of sad, sad little people who'd rather sit in their dark, lonely rooms and take cheap shots at people they'll never meet.

Praise be to the Internet!

 

If I'm wrong, you could all have just said: "It would work, but you haven't got great odds. Still, it'd be fun to try"

Just think the "advice" could be given in a less condesending way.

[Spacefrisian]

If I'm wrong, you could all have just said: "It would work, but you haven't got great odds. Still, it'd be fun to try"

Just think the "advice" could be given in a less condesending way.

 

Its a reasonable idea but I see 3 issues.

1) You're only wounding on 6's most of the time.

2) You always have the chance to roll a 1 with a daemon weapon.

3) Taking a lord(s) means 1 less daemon prince on the board.

 

If its a fun game and you already have the model made up, I think it could work. In a more competitive scenario, I wouldn't rely on it.

 

I dunno about you but that pretty much tells the odds of it happening, and that is just the 2nd post of this topic.

[UglyWretch]

If I'm wrong, you could all have just said: "It would work, but you haven't got great odds. Still, it'd be fun to try"

Just think the "advice" could be given in a less condesending way.

 

Its a reasonable idea but I see 3 issues.

1) You're only wounding on 6's most of the time.

2) You always have the chance to roll a 1 with a daemon weapon.

3) Taking a lord(s) means 1 less daemon prince on the board.

 

If its a fun game and you already have the model made up, I think it could work. In a more competitive scenario, I wouldn't rely on it.

 

I dunno about you but that pretty much tells the odds of it happening, and that is just the 2nd post of this topic.

 

Yeah, and I appreciated that. Then others piled in.

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

I was initially just trying to make sure the Insta-kill rule would actually work on a Monsterous Creature, and probably hoping to hear some glorious stories.

 

Instead, as always, I get people who'd rather shoot someone down than lift them up.

If you think I should expect this sort of "advice" whenever I ask a civil question, then it proves that the internet is truely full of sad, sad little people who'd rather sit in their dark, lonely rooms and take cheap shots at people they'll never meet.

Praise be to the Internet!

 

If I'm wrong, you could all have just said: "It would work, but you haven't got great odds. Still, it'd be fun to try"

Just think the "advice" could be given in a less condesending way.

 

If you're looking for glory stories, why not try and include a unit of Thousand Sons? It's usually very easy to bait a monstrous creature into a unit of Tsons and I can't tell you how many times I've had a squad sorcerer kill monstrous creatures in CC (sometimes multiple ones in the same game)

 

I had not thought of Blissgiver vs. monstrous creatures.. You should try it on an Avatar and see how many Eldar players are ticked.

[zyl-]

I am a little suprised this wasn't already brought up, but how about a chaos sorceror (force weapon) versus the big uglies? They seem to have decent options available, and a more reliable number of ID attacks. I don't have a codex in front of me atm, but I'm guessing points wise you could do alright here and even get a little more versatility. Are Sorcerors mathhammered out to being not worth it by the community in general? I've done some face wrecking with them.

[Kristoff]

Surprisingly, Fabulous Billy has the most numerically reliable number of ID attacks in the Chaos codex. They don't rely on tests to kill totally (although, there is the standard of having to wound and such), and there isn't a random number of attacks or a chance to kill yourself.

 

Now just having to get past the Special Character status and lack of Invul Save and EW...

[UglyWretch]

I am a little suprised this wasn't already brought up, but how about a chaos sorceror (force weapon) versus the big uglies? They seem to have decent options available, and a more reliable number of ID attacks. I don't have a codex in front of me atm, but I'm guessing points wise you could do alright here and even get a little more versatility. Are Sorcerors mathhammered out to being not worth it by the community in general? I've done some face wrecking with them.

To Insta-Kill with a Force Weapon, haven't you got to score a wound, and then pass a psychic test? It might work normaly, but 'Nids have that dodgy rule where their opponent takes all Psychic tests on 3D6. That's why I don't use Psychic powers vs 'Nids.

[Brother Nihm]

I am a little suprised this wasn't already brought up, but how about a chaos sorceror (force weapon) versus the big uglies? They seem to have decent options available, and a more reliable number of ID attacks. I don't have a codex in front of me atm, but I'm guessing points wise you could do alright here and even get a little more versatility. Are Sorcerors mathhammered out to being not worth it by the community in general? I've done some face wrecking with them.

To Insta-Kill with a Force Weapon, haven't you got to score a wound, and then pass a psychic test? It might work normaly, but 'Nids have that dodgy rule where their opponent takes all Psychic tests on 3D6. That's why I don't use Psychic powers vs 'Nids.

Yup, Shadow in The Warp.

[Spacefrisian]

And you only get perils vs nids on a double 1 or double 6 so if you score over 12 but none of those are in te result, you wont get perils. (not to be confused with the Eldar version as that states anything with result 12 or more gets it.)