dagirlz Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Hey guys, i need some help, im new to the forums and i am seeking help in play games with Choas. I keep losing and losing and losing. I don't mind losing but im starting to get up set :P So this is what i have, HQ: Lucius the Eternal Demon Prince, with wings. Chaos Lord in terminator Armour, with a combi-melta and daemon weapon / power weapon. Elites: (normal Chaos Space Marines could be taken as Chosen) 5x Possessed, with champ (or could be used as a normal dude), and a Icon Chaos Dreadnought, with Twinkled Lass-cannon, and extra close combat weapon with heavy flamer. Troops: 15x Chaos Space Marines, With Champ (power first and plasma pist) a Chaos icon barer, Heavy bolter, flamer, plasma gun, melta gun 1x Chaos Rhino with havoc luncher 10x Nosie Marines, with 9x sonic blasters 1x blast master 21x Khorne Berserk, With Champ with power first and 1 of the Khorne Berserk has a plasma pist. Fast Attack: 5x Chaos Raptors, with champ with 2x lightning claws, raptor with plasma pist, raptor with flamer. Heavy Support: Chaos Space Marines could be used as Havocs. 3x Obliterator Cults 1x Defiler 1x Chaos Land Raider Sorry about spelling guys, i tried my best and went over it 3 times, im not the best at english, please forgive. So yea i have lost like 20 games in a row, from 1k to 2k to 2.5k to 3k to apoc games with other team mates. I know this is asking a a lot but do you think some one could write me a 2k list and tell me how / some tricks on using it. ty ty, i look forward to posting and talking over this forums, i will be posting a painting blog :lol: enjoy your day / night Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249379-i-really-need-some-helps-guys/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 im sure we can help a brother in need. can i ask for some more information: what are you normal opponents armies? what is the standard points level? where do you think your problems are, why do you think you lose? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249379-i-really-need-some-helps-guys/#findComment-3020212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagirlz Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 my opponents are crones, blood angles, Elder, Orks we usually play 2k i think i am giving the wrong marks to my units and bring the wrong units, i usually give my demon prince slannesh with lash of submission. Also i cant seem to get my khorne berserk to work, they just die. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249379-i-really-need-some-helps-guys/#findComment-3020221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 i definately think we can help you.. usually when someone says they lose alot its becuase they play alot of space wolf and grey knight lists.. your gaming buddies have pretty balanced armies IMO (although without knowing thier lists this is a generalisation) the reason i ask about points level is becuase army 'mechanics' change as the list size changes.. it takes alot of time to learn the little nuances and unit combos. personally i think you need to stick to one army size (2k is cool) and keep at it, dont change the size too often as it can mess up unforgiving armies like chaos. i think another issue you have is a serious lack of transport, berserkers are golden against the armies you listed, but on foot will get shot down PDQ. perhaps one of your friends has some spare you could borrow? or you have something which is approx size for proxy playtesting? im going to have a look on army builder and see what i can make out of what you have here.. ill repost shortly Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249379-i-really-need-some-helps-guys/#findComment-3020229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagirlz Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 Thanks mate :lol: I live in Australia and need to hit the hay, will look at it first thing in the morning. Night :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249379-i-really-need-some-helps-guys/#findComment-3020236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 ok so ive thrown a few things around and the biggest problem i encountered (aside from lack of rhinos) was getting units that compliment each other.. tbh you could use a few more basic CSM troops (they can be used as nurgle marines if needed) heres a preliminary list, im sure others will make changes and thats fine.. but ill highlight why i took what i did. daemon prince -wings -mark of nurgle -wind of chaos Lucius 9 berserkers - includes skull champ upgraded with fist in a land raider with extra armour 10 chaos space marines -icon of chaos glory -champ with fist and plasma pistol -2 plasmaguns -rhino 10 chaos space marines -icon of khorne -2 flamers -champ with fist -rhino 5 noise marines -4 sonic blaster -blastmaster 3 obliterators Defiler -reaper autocannon -TL heavy flamer dreadnought -TL lascannon -heavy flamer ok, i realise youll need to sub ina few models here and there, but im sure your friends wont mind too much, a berserker will easily proxy as a chaos marine to make up numbers. the daemon prince is a no brainer, mark of nurgle is the best mark for him IMO, makes him T6 and more of a monstrous creature, the wind of chaos is the best upgrade since warptime was nerfed by the recent FAQ, flame template that wounds on 4+ with no saves, can glance vehicles too as for lucius, alot of people dont like him, but I6 means he will strike before most characters and WS7 means hitting on 3's most of the time, he doesnt do many wounds in assault, but his AP3 heavy flamer is very nice and his lash makes everyone in B2B swing with -1A. his armour also strikes back at any made saves, so his potential to cause wounds is greater than just a few Pw attacks. i did think about putting your TDA lord with a nurgle daemon weapon, but TDA means no running down enemies, and against orks and necrons thats invaluable. berserkers are a great combo for any HQ choice.. the raider is a bit expensive over a rhino, but with enough armour on the board may make it a turn or two.. extra armour is a must though. i put in two units of CSM troops, these guys are our bread and butter.. for really competative games alot of people go for plague marines and you can easily sub in CSM to be PMs if you wanted to go that route. obviously both are set up to be anti-infantry, one of them is khorne based so 2 flamer templates then 40+attacks on the charge.. none too shabby, again rhinos are a must have. your noise marines are cool and amusing, ive only put 5 in due to costs, but with sonic weapons can lay down alot of fire, good for objective camping. i maxed out oblits just to get heavy weaponn on the board, these guys are your main source of lascannons and melta for anti-tank. the defiler posed a problem as singular ones die quickly, so i put in your dread too as a kind of 'defiler light'.. keep it near your noise marines (who should be in cover).. if it goes nuts you can fire a couple of shots at them for thier cover saves Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249379-i-really-need-some-helps-guys/#findComment-3020241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Willy Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 For your HQs The prince is a definite, Keep the wings give it tzeentch and either wind or warptime, or since Warptime got nerfed I find Wind and doombolt to be surprisingly effective. In 2k Id say the Lucius if only cause he's ws 7 though lord will do to back up your dp for troops. Two ten squads of zerkers, with champs with fists get rid of the Plas pistol, i find it unneeded. Mount one in the raider and one in a rhino to follow behind it. Possessing the Raider can be pretty lulzy (Glancing is ignored and I ve had more then a few Tau players going into rage filled ticks when they roll ones and twos). If you can get your hands on another rhino run the Noise Marines in that and use that to support the zerkers as they advance by shooting units they can't assault or mass fire on MCs. Or duel Melta/Plasma CSM squad, if you didn't use to much glue should be able to pull of one of the extra special weapons. use the extra five for either Havocs with heavy bolters or mount in rhino for four melta/plasma/flamer unit, can be used with a rhino or use as chosen who infiltrate or outflank in which case you could run five of said gun. Raptors are meh, maybe replace flamer with melta but flamer can work well to balance out small squad size. Elite Drop the possessed or use them as Chosen with five powerweapons, they to many points as possessed for what they ll do in five man squads but outflanking powerweapons can help deal with tacs on objectives or to help a flanking unit take out some assault marines or even Sang Guard, remember they have no invuln. the Dreadnought is all good and can help you take out any necron transports while your out of melta range just keep your rhino out of it's guns 45 degree arc The heavy is aces though I would suggest either running two squads of three oblits or two defilers though two oblits means no dreadnought which is fine, six lascannons that you can control is better then one twinlinked that might skitz out. I find marks don't matter to much, a slaanesshy marked Raptor squad does just as well as khorne, so tailor it to the army you face, if you have the points and facing BA id say slaan or tzeentch is good, one means they won't be able to furious charge you and get first attacks while tzeentch will help against DC with lots of pw and Sang Guard. against orcs, beat them down with Khorne or make yourself impossible to wound with Nurgle. Crons get Khorne to up your cc prowess and give them to many Reanimations to get any decent number passed. Eldar go with Tzeentch, your opponent can bring so much ap3 that you'll need those 5++ to make him think twice bout charging that unit of banshees in or shot is wraithguard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249379-i-really-need-some-helps-guys/#findComment-3020253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagirlz Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 thanks you 2 :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249379-i-really-need-some-helps-guys/#findComment-3020500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Drop the possessed or use them as Chosen with five powerweapons, they to many points as possessed for what they ll do in five man squads but outflanking powerweapons can help deal with tacs on objectives or to help a flanking unit take out some assault marines or even Sang Guard, remember they have no invuln. And are faster then chosen with possible FC which would also mean tehy strike first . if ever chosen then in a rhino with 5 special weapons. and only when HQ and hvy slots are already full and troops are 4 or more. if you have the points and facing BA id say slaan or tzeentch is good, one means they won't be able to furious charge you and get first attacks while tzeentch will help against DC with lots of pw and Sang Guard. since when did a +5inv protect against mass power weapons ? you save 2 in every 6 wounds casued and which means they unit will get broken in hth anyway even if those 2 dudes survive . If ever any other icon then chaos glory then khorn . ah and if your taking a 5 man NM unit with a blast master dont buy sonic blasters for them . it costs too much and are not very good. actualy runing 8 with a fist and a syren in a rhino would work better for this list. I must say I dont understand why lucius is used . he is not faster then a slanny lord , but has no ID demon weapon . he has ws7 but a lord hits most stuff on +3 too [as those a DP] so why bother , to get +4 hits in return from ws 7 or more ? his armor does absolutly nothing . no one is going to target him with no ID attacks unless they are sure they can kill him and when dead his armor does not activate . He does give a syren to a squad , but he costs almost like a nm unit with one . And even if he does get to use the ap 3 flamer it works one time against every opponent . + what is probably just as important lucius unlike a lord cant get wings. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249379-i-really-need-some-helps-guys/#findComment-3020537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagirlz Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 thanks for your imput mate :) what would u recommend for a 2k match? by the way i will be trying all this builds cant thank you guys enough. got to go to uni untill 7 at night 9 in the morning - 7 at night uni day :(:(:(:((:(:(:( will check this post soon as i get home once agien thanks for all the input really really apprchate it sorry dont have time to spell check it, in a rush to go to uni, have a great day all Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249379-i-really-need-some-helps-guys/#findComment-3020543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 the list crusade gave is a good one to start , specialy as includes the units you already own . For future games . in general if you take a zerker/csm or pm squad it gets a transport [which most of the time is a rhino]. Pms have 3 good set ups 5 pms with 2 melta in a rhino 7 pms with 2melta fist champ in a rhino 5 pms with 2plasma in a rhino zerkers in general are used in 8 man sized units[nothing to do with khorn holy number , but cost vs pts efficiency of the unit] with a fist champ in a rhino . the only time they do not get a rhino is when you buy a land raider for them . everything works better in pairs . a lot stuff doesnt work at all if it is taken as single . 3x1 oblits are not bad . but 2x2 are much better even if technicly it is just one oblits more[2x2 means you can engage 2 targets . to kill them all opponents have to split fire etc] . 1 DP ok . 2 DP better. single defiler bad . 2-3 defiler well still not great but playable. there are also special cases dreadnoughts or spawn for example get worse the more points you pay for them and the more you take . a single dread is just bad , 3 means you have to make them hth only or the problems with making it safe for your units and covering dread jobs with other units in case they get crazy is not worth it . chaos does not have a FA section unless you plan to do apocalipse and your taking everything you own anyway. if termis then 3-4 man squads with combi melta . buying them fists or icons is not wortht he points it costs . chaos termis dont do hth [bad LR , no frags unlike loyalists , low inv , no ATKNF means when they run they are gone . no good upgrade baby sitters for the termis etc etc]. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249379-i-really-need-some-helps-guys/#findComment-3020830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spear of Achilles Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'd also think about dropping the reaper AC of the defiler if you use it. A battle cannon (Thus no other weapons fire) or fleeting into close combat with an extra DCCW is far better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249379-i-really-need-some-helps-guys/#findComment-3020837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caffeineated Chaos Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 the list crusade gave is a good one to start , specialy as includes the units you For future games... etc. etc. This is as succinct an overview of the jeske's advice for list-building. And as far as making chaos it's most competitive, he's more or less spot on and this is worth heeding. Also this is the nicest post I've ever seen from him :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249379-i-really-need-some-helps-guys/#findComment-3021080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 to be fair to the jeske he does know his stuff.. and the language barrier can often mean he comes across a little blunter than he is (ok he can be blunt aswell) i often disagree with the chap, but in terms of whats most competative and optimum builds form tournament style play, hes the man to speak to Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249379-i-really-need-some-helps-guys/#findComment-3021095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caffeineated Chaos Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 to be fair to the jeske he does know his stuff.. and the language barrier can often mean he comes across a little blunter than he is (ok he can be blunt aswell) i often disagree with the chap, but in terms of whats most competative and optimum builds form tournament style play, hes the man to speak to Oh I know. That's what I was trying to get across Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249379-i-really-need-some-helps-guys/#findComment-3021129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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