Matt D Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 so this is my list. i like it a lot. i like to be diverse. i think its one of the great things about space wolves. most of it is pretty self explanatory except maybe the WG. they breakdown like this: fist/c-melta and grey hunters w/melta in rhino, fist/c-flamer and blood claws w/flamer in razorback, TDA/CML and grey hunters w/plasma in drop pod, TDA, fist/c-melta and grey hunters w/melta in LR redeemer with the RP. the last three are in TDA w/1 PF, 1 WC, 1 PW and all have c-plasma in a drop pod. this is a fun, hard hitting list. my only real problem come up with grey knights and there ability to screw with my drop pods. if you land within 12 inches they get to pas a psychic test to make you roll for mishap. i have lost many a pod to this.should i be less aggressive in placing them or is there something else i can do to combat this?. would love some advice brothers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249387-tactic-against-grey-knights/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Individual points are not allowed on the B&C (the pic can't show the points per upgrade), just totals are allowed. Yes, that's a great way to make a list; however, last I checked it's not within the posting rule limits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249387-tactic-against-grey-knights/#findComment-3020405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 got rid of points. :lol: thanks for the heads up Karack. i'm not really looking to change the list so much as figure out how to use it best against grey knights. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249387-tactic-against-grey-knights/#findComment-3020436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I have very little experience against GK's, however, I do know that it's been talked about here; the consensus was to use plenty of AP2 weapons as that hurts the GK saves the most, denying them their best save. There's no reason to change your list, just keep in mind that as far as this list goes, if it is how you like, that LRR and your Plazorback (Las/Plas) will be potential game changers, due to the above line. This will also make them targets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249387-tactic-against-grey-knights/#findComment-3020470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 i know what kills them. its more to do with there drop pod denial. how should i use my pods without losing them or having them so far away that they are useless for 2 turns... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249387-tactic-against-grey-knights/#findComment-3020677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 you can always deploy the units on foot, and let the pods come down empty... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249387-tactic-against-grey-knights/#findComment-3020750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo429 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 you can always deploy the units on foot, and let the pods come down empty... I agree with this, I'd deploy empty pods and use them to block the greay knights cutting down on their mobility. I think the important thing to keep in mind with GK is yes they have fancy psychic powers and force weapons all round but at the end of the day they are still marines and you need to keep that mindset. Take away their vehicles and then shoot them until they are gone. Think of the game as a war of attrition, you want to look for the thing thats scariest at that time and hit it until its no longer scary. Your drop pods can allow you to deal with that because it allows you to slow them down so you can concentrate on one or 2 squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249387-tactic-against-grey-knights/#findComment-3020859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 i don't know why i did not think to deploy them empty. I forgot you could i guess. i will try this out in my next game and let you know how it woks out. thanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249387-tactic-against-grey-knights/#findComment-3020961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I have very little experience against GK's, however, I do know that it's been talked about here; the consensus was to use plenty of AP2 weapons as that hurts the GK saves the most, denying them their best save. There's no reason to change your list, just keep in mind that as far as this list goes, if it is how you like, that LRR and your Plazorback (Las/Plas) will be potential game changers, due to the above line. This will also make them targets. Plenty of ap 2 or mass unload charge from Landraiders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249387-tactic-against-grey-knights/#findComment-3021091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonarmy Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 many many rune priests to nullify!!! you do not want them getting into CC and then hitting at strength "ridiculous" that they seem to be able to do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249387-tactic-against-grey-knights/#findComment-3021126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 Mile Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I've noticed that grey knights are one of the strongest armies out there against space wolves. Rock to our scissors sort of thing. Forceweapons... trumps t-wolf cavalry anyone with hammerhand w/ halberds... trumps any and all of our cc units stormbolters... with or without psybolts they pump out a ton of firepower across the board that is hard to sustain psycannons... the ultimate solution to light AND heavy vehicles (if you do the math the psycannon is the nastiest weapon against a landraider at 24 inches that any space marine army has access to, its numbers are considerably better than lascannon, minus the range deficit). warp quake... anti drop pod Interceptors... *shunt* "surprise longfangs, suck my psybolts!" Also, a runeprist's runic weapon is lackluster against Gk compared to a psychic hood, which further hurts SW. To fight grey knights you have to build a list that is based around fighting them, at the detriment of other facets of your list. I too play drop pods (3), I too have used plazorbacks, t-wolves, etc, and I've found that it all lacks against this one opponent more so than any other. Grey knights are a list that EXCELS at killing ELITE armies, because frankly they are elitier. I build a list that I know will be strong against the majority of armies out there, then I pray that I don't draw the GK lists playing in the tournament, then IF I do, I pray they are inexperienced, etc, and that I can weasel my way to a win with my list that is good for most things and bad for Gk. To build a list to kill GK armies would mean using a shooting list that aims to get within 12 inches and unleash hell, but not to assault them. In H2H GK will win, but at 12 inches a bolter and a storm bolter are effectively the same gun. My anti GK list would include lots of 10 man Grey Hunter squads in Rhino's with melta/plasma or plasma/plasma and no special CC goodies. I would go heavy on long fangs. A rune priest would be a requirement, even if its not as good as having a P.Hood. I would run a shooty RP, living lighting/MH is a good combo, add a chooser and he can put down some solid firepower while sitting with the LFangs and protecting them if need be. It will do ok against some stuff but you don't have all the "cool" units. I like my cool units, so I just try to make what I run work when forced into that situation. If you have a desire to be the nemesis of Gk's though, play a plasma rich guard army and call it a day ;-) Sly doesn't deepstrike (technically), he doesn't scatter, and he has one serious hard on for dropping a demo-charge on top of that phat paladin unit. I know its not space marines/space wolves but it is the best solution I've come up with yet to those pesky GK. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249387-tactic-against-grey-knights/#findComment-3021146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo429 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Why don't you think that a runic weapon is as good as a psychic hood? My understanding is mathammer says rune trumps hood. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249387-tactic-against-grey-knights/#findComment-3021269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Why don't you think that a runic weapon is as good as a psychic hood? My understanding is mathammer says rune trumps hood. Agreed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249387-tactic-against-grey-knights/#findComment-3021315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormbrow II Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Rune trumps Hood where both are Ld 10 vs Ld 10 (ICs, Vehicles, Dreads). Where the user of a Hood is Ld 10 and a GK unit is 9, the Hood is better as it is more likely to stop the power being cast then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249387-tactic-against-grey-knights/#findComment-3021403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 just wanted to say thanks for all the replies! the 2 big changes i am going to try i think are 2 rune priests instead of 1 and deploying the drop pods empty while using them as cover and creating fire lanes. anything else you guys can think of to mitigate warp quake? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249387-tactic-against-grey-knights/#findComment-3021842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo429 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I think 2 rune priests is an excellent use of points. For general tournament play (not tailoring lists) I would go 1 with LL, JOTWW the other with LL, MH Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249387-tactic-against-grey-knights/#findComment-3021879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Rune trumps Hood where both are Ld 10 vs Ld 10 (ICs, Vehicles, Dreads). Where the user of a Hood is Ld 10 and a GK unit is 9, the Hood is better as it is more likely to stop the power being cast then. Also, a runeprist's runic weapon is lackluster against Gk compared to a psychic hood, which further hurts SW. I find IC's, dread's and vehicles quite common in GK lists. Actually i think have seen more of these in most lists I have played than ld9 units 58% or 42 % against 50 % I dont see a big difference and i really hate fortitude Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249387-tactic-against-grey-knights/#findComment-3021917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiOfRuss Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 The best thing to do against GK is to hide your RP, but put him in range to (potentially) nullify Fortitude. Beyond that, it's mostly the same as fighting other Marines: dump them out of transports then shoot the heck out of them. If you're worried about Paladins, try fitting more Lascannons into your list. A guy in my group plays Draigowing, and I now bring 6 Lascannons in my list. He gets really nervous about it since they're AP2 and Instant Death the Paladins. I don't think Assaulting GK is entirely out of the question, especially GK in PA. Just make sure you bring overwhelming force - more than 2x GH to GK would be ideal. Try to isolate and overwhelm individual GK. Because of the points, you can win a war of attrition if you are trading models close to 1 for 1 with him. If you are seeing "Psyfilemen" Dreds in the backfield, consider Wolf Scouts. They're our best weapon against them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249387-tactic-against-grey-knights/#findComment-3021949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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