Hoots Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Hi there Im looking for advice on how to deal with a wolf lord leading a 15 strong unit of wolves! im getting back into deathwing and have been running a few variant lists, the other week i chose poorly (cause i just had to give my dreads a chance to get on the battlefield) and made a few mistakes but what really snookered me was this unit. 15 Wolves: can move & charge between 18-24 inches, get 3x(!!) int5, ws4, str4 attacks each when charging. 45 attacks comming at you! hitting as well as a marine (50% of the time) and wounding like a marine (50% of the time). all before you strike back. Wolf Lord: gets 4 attacks, plus one for being on thunder wolf, plus one for charging (im lucky enough that the guy i play takes a storm shield therfore reducing the attacks by one) strikes at int5, ws6, sth5 (cause of wolf) he has saga of the wolf kin (hence the wolves having int5) ok so your all going to say stay back and shoot it but thats not always an option. last game i was unlucky enough to have this unit meat grinder its way through my army, they mopped up three squads of termies pretty much singlehanded!! in each of his turns my termies didnt quite die allowing him to remain in combat through my shooting phase before he dispatched the remaining termies in my assault phase. next turn they would charge off into another squad and repeat the process!! i know anything with Heavy flamers, assault cannons, H. bolters and almost any other dakka is going to hurt this squad but as i found out they can reach you quick enough to prevent much firepower comming there way. i have a fair old mix of additional marine units and vehicles so can pretty much take what i want. all i want you to do is explain what you would take in your army and how would you use it to prevent this unit from doing a "Hoots" on you?? i would like to keep the main theme of the army deathwing and their support vehicles but im open to all ideas. ist also worth noting that the space wolves player can field almost anything so i cant tell what eles he would bring please just concentrate on how to deal with my first (of many) problems thanks Hoots Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249394-help-or-advice/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJL Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 A couple of landspeeders with heavy flamers and heavy bolters should work nicely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249394-help-or-advice/#findComment-3020438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Either that or mount your entire army in transports (land raider crusaders) and mow him down while he helplessly rasps at teh vehicles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249394-help-or-advice/#findComment-3020449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbenner Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Tar pit him with a dreadnought. Keep one in his line and the unit will be stuck in combat the whole game. The unit can't touch AV 12 so that would work and it will be a huge waste of points for him. Unless he takes a fist or hammer you should get at him pretty quickly. A CCW and an Autocannon would be perfect, give you range in the middle and make sure you keep it close. Yes, he might get the charge into one group of terminators but after that he is locked with the dreadnought and you can deal with everything else. Paul Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249394-help-or-advice/#findComment-3020463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pueriexdeus Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 One option that seems to be missing from the lists offered is to charge first with your own Deathstar. The big B with Command Sqd and Chappi out of an LRC. Loosely speaking it's 11 I5/BS5 A's on the charge, 15 I4/BS4 A's, and 12 I1/BS 4 A's. With the Litany of Hate re-roll it's unlikely many of the Puppies would survive. Doing a little dice throwing gave me 11 I5 Hits, 9 I4 hits, and 6 I1 hits. Wounding on 5X I5, 6X I4, and 3X I1. That would be 14 dead puppies, now I know that this is not an average, but even if it was the dogs would be routed quickly. Shock him and take the pain too him fast. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249394-help-or-advice/#findComment-3020561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoots Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 awesome to hear back from people so quickly thanks everyone. The land raider option does seem nice, i have two crusaders which may have to come out to play, although i dont see them being around for long what with all the meltas he can take. still i suppose if they do their job and shoot up a lot of those wolves before i charge that should make a big difference. and yeah having my unit kitted out with two HQ choices would probably have helped with wound allocation and with some more I5 hits. so i might try one LRC carrying Belial with LCs, Termie Chappie, apoth CF/SB, standard TH/SS, 2x TH/SS, 1x LCs Second LRC takes 3x TH/SS, 1x LCs, 1x CF/SB CML third and fourth squads of termies sits in reserves with 2x TH/SS, 2x PF/SB, 1x CF/SB CML. i can choose to bring one squad in using DWA to put presure on any weak points or serious threats. or just to get in the way and roadblock. the remaining squad will deploy on or near an objective late in the game (although more prayes need to be said to the deepstrike scatter dice gods!) cheers again guys Hoots Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249394-help-or-advice/#findComment-3020643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droma Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 You want your terminator squads to be within charge range of each other. If he's staying in combat because he's not completely killing a squad then that means you charge him back with 2+ squads and wipe him out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249394-help-or-advice/#findComment-3020787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 If the Wolf Lord is attacking at Initiative and Strength 5, meaning he has no thunder hammer or weapon capable of punching AV 12, as PBenner said, just tarpit the fool with a bare bones Dreadnought, and watch his "UNIT OF DOOOM!" slowly but surely get killed. Funny thing is, if the Wolf Lord and Fenrisian Wolves unit is as large as I am thinking it is, when it locks up with the Dreadnought they will surround it, meaning that any other Space Wolves units able to save the Wolf Lord and Fenrsian Wolves won't even have room to move in and Assault the Dreadnought. :D So, you nullify this unit with one that is around half the cost, and then are free to take your easily earned points advantage against the rest of his army. Cheap and easy. Mechanized DW could just enjoy the shooting gallery, and then move, disembark everything shoot, and then charge whatever bloody mess is still there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249394-help-or-advice/#findComment-3020835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
riddles Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Or you could, y'know, tank shock him off the board. He's only Ld9 and can't hurt you with death or glory. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249394-help-or-advice/#findComment-3020852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 as the wolf player in question - must say therse some good points here. The thing that id probably find hardest to deal with above would be the flamer/bolter speeders - although my rune priest has proved rather good at dropping them in the past. One thing i have been doing though, is keeping the wolf lord in reserve until something is in charge range (ie, within roughly 20 inches of my board edge. - which as long as theres an objective near my board edge and just tarpit the fool with a bare bones Dreadnought, and watch his "UNIT OF DOOOM!" slowly but surely get killed unfortunately this fool also equips his wolf lord with melta bombs (sorry ross, forgot that when you asked stats yesterday). So your tarpit wouldnt work (and id generally keep this unit as far away from dreads as possibl eanyway?! just for the record..its not like i solely rely on this unit by the way - this is nowhere near the say, 400-500pt deathstar units of thunderwolf cavalry ive seen people running. Its jsut that this squad can be exceedingly good at taking down termintors in clse combat (something the rest of my army would get crushed attempting) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249394-help-or-advice/#findComment-3020984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 A Wolf Lord is LD 10 riddles, but that is not a bad idea at all, if the unit is in range for Tank Shock. A small chance to do something extra is better than no chance at all, and it is the poor commander that doesn't take advantage of every chance they get to to mess with the enemy. As to the meltabombs Dan, one meltabomb attack that hits on a 6 against the Dreadnought is not all that good, so good luck to your Wolf Lord. And, there is always the Venerable upgrade, which will turn any successful meltabomb attack damage roll from a 1-in-3 chance of taking out the Dreadnought into a 1-in 9 chance, so watch out for that too. ;) Basically, the point here is that your unit is not that foul at all. Run a whole pack of Thunderwolf Cavalry, and he'll likely cry a bit louder. :) Then he'll know that you have actually been going easy on him with a unit that just looks cool, but that is not nearly as foul as another that you could field against him (not that Thunderwolf cavalry can't be killed in number of ways either). :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249394-help-or-advice/#findComment-3020989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
riddles Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Ah, i'm thinking of the wolf guard battle leader. I've played against the canis+battle leader+15 TWC+10 fenrisian wolves. Good lord it was a pain but hella fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249394-help-or-advice/#findComment-3021002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (although more prayes need to be said to the deepstrike scatter dice gods!) says the man who deepstriked (?!) belials command squad one inch away from teh edge of the table two games ago, perfectly landing him beind my entire army, whcih was tabled by turn 4 (although there was no wolf lord in that battel hah ;)) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249394-help-or-advice/#findComment-3021005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 As to the meltabombs Dan, one meltabomb attack that hits on a 6 against the Dreadnought is not all that good, so good luck to your Wolf Lord. And, there is always the Venerable upgrade, which will turn any successful meltabomb attack damage roll from a 1-in-3 chance of taking out the Dreadnought into a 1-in 9 chance, so watch out for that t Unfortunately, as he also has a wolf tooth necklace, and the dreadnought has a weapon skill stat. Hes hitting on 3's with ANY attack he chooses to use in combat. See here for the argument for/against this and how the new SW FAQ made this so: http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/40k...meltabombs.html Basically, the point here is that your unit is not that foul at all. Run a whole pack of Thunderwolf Cavalry, and he'll likely cry a bit louder. ;) Then he'll know that you have actually been going easy on him with a unit that just looks cool, but that is not nearly as foul as another that you could field against him (not that Thunderwolf cavalry can't be killed in number of ways either). ;) Oh believe me i fully realise this. i think that lord with fenrisian wolves squad is definately a 'glass sword' or whatever. BUt play them from reserve and get some 'lucky' charge ranges and you can minimise this B) once i have some spare cash ill be getting some shiny thunderwolves to add to teh lords retinue was just pointing out that some of the tactics (especially the tarpit one) do have flaws. I used to be a dark angels player, and can sympathise with ross having to play a 4th edition against a 5th edition army, and commend him for sticking to his guns. once i have a bit of spare cash will be trying out those new thunderwolf cavalry models Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249394-help-or-advice/#findComment-3021020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 ~shrug~ That unit is nothing a mechanized deathwing list need fear. Or, as mentioned, keep within supporting range of one another (which you should do in any case, five termies are too easy for ANY enemy to deal with in isolation), or some speeders, or massed CMLs, the options are virtually endless. I personally like the command squad with chappy option...bels, chappy, apo, and banner...that's enough attacks with rerolls that it doesn't matter how you're armed, and with FNP to boot? It's like taking candy from a baby! Imagine what a lightning-claw-pure squad would do here... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249394-help-or-advice/#findComment-3021106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoots Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 thanks again for the thoughts everyone, its great to hear the support for and against different ideas. im thinking that i'd like to give the LRCs a go first, with the CCW heavy termies options. a few games of that to see how they fair should be fun. dan can chop and change to take more anti armour which will make it harder (he would probably not take said unit if he thought id be in armour) but those crusaders need some combat time too :) sometimes they fail miserably but with a bit more luck and common sense than i usually have in the heat of battle i think this could make for a very interesting fight. may try the dreadnought(s) option in smaller games. i suppose having a dread wade in to support a termie squad and vs versa is pretty handy. and two of them aint too much more than another termie squad with CML? of course theres always the third option.... simply MORE TERMIES Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249394-help-or-advice/#findComment-3021237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 There is no problem in 40k that can't be solved by the application of more terminators. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249394-help-or-advice/#findComment-3021681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
riddles Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 There is no problem in 40k that can't be solved by the application of more and bigger guns. fixed that for you :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249394-help-or-advice/#findComment-3021705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 There is no problem in 40k that can't be solved by the application of more and bigger guns. :) fixed that for you :) ~snicker~ Minstorum Munitiorum Twink! simply MORE TERMIES MOAR TERMIES!!!!! YEEEEESSSSSSSSS!!!! BLOOD FOR THE...waitaminit, what is this? You tricked me into saying that! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249394-help-or-advice/#findComment-3022063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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