OSO88 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 There is a local BT player that has a really good list for our local meta, I know I can take him with my Deathwing, but that is kind of boring , so does anyone have ideas on how to not just beat , but table this: -Emp champion -3*5man tank hunting CML(2) termies -2 or 3 crusader squads in rinos -3 Typhoon speeders and maybe a vindi not sure if I remember correctly. We play 1750 and the main thing is those dam termies, they just don't die and they put out a lot of firepower. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Willy Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Pound it with anything melta or plasma. What kind of list do you want to play with instead of deathwing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3020825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSO88 Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Well seeing as I will most likely face it at a upcoming tourney, I'm thinking of something balanced that can still take on other tournament armies as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3020861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Well lets see here.... what other armies do you have besides DW? Frankly all his LR firepower is S8, so if I were playing gaurd for example Id just unload an executioner on a squad each turn and watch them go poof. Run two to with my armored fist squads to get the job done- and use other LR firepower to stop his crusaders from reaching their objectives. As SWs Id drop in with plasma hunter packs and unload on those terminators, expecting to kill three or four of two squads turn one, and have my dread rip apart some of his typhoons while my typhoons hunt his rhinos. And so on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3020873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysticaria Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Frankly all his LR firepower is S8, so if I were playing gaurd for example Id just unload an executioner on a squad each turn and watch them go poof. Run two to with my armored fist squads to get the job done- and use other LR firepower to stop his crusaders from reaching their objectives. I think 12 missiles are S9 in this list... Might be able to knock out a LR at range... and they are probably spread out with cover saves. Not going to be easy to just shoot one shot and knock them out. Assault might work... maybe a BA DOA list? DW might be your best option since it invalidates all his missiles. By the way, this is my kind of army. I love it. It's basically my C:SM army but better because of BT codex and min-maxing. -Myst Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3020886 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Let's keep suggestions to armies that are supported by the Bolter and Chainsword (Power armor and Demons). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3020897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSO88 Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Yes the missiles are S9, I have IG but mainly Russe's with some chimera's (armored company sort off) as for marines what Idon't have I can get so that's not a issue. Blood Angels is a big no no for me as I beleive they are Khorn berserkers in disguise! ^_^ I was thinking maybe a Shrike infiltrate with termies list? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3020915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDevourer Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Then I would suggest as noted in the previous post a "Pred Spam". So 3 Baal Preds (Assaultcannon + heavy bolter sponsons, maybe one flamestorm cannon) and 3 Normal Preds (Autocannon + lasca sponsons) with some razorback assault squads. I could post an approx. list if you would like. Sincerely, The Devourer Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3020916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bucelufe Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Why not just use your usual army list and play to your own strengths rather than worrying about what everyone else is using? I have played and used very sub optimal armies and won games against far "superior" forces due to good play and in some cases, fortuitous events. Too many people in the gaming environment play to the must win at all costs mentality by trying to sidestep random chance, using min/max army lists and rules loopholes which detracts from the fun that is to be had from playing 40K, in my opinion of course. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3020962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Why not just use your usual army list and play to your own strengths rather than worrying about what everyone else is using? I have played and used very sub optimal armies and won games against far "superior" forces due to good play and in some cases, fortuitous events. Too many people in the gaming environment play to the must win at all costs mentality by trying to sidestep random chance, using min/max army lists and rules loopholes which detracts from the fun that is to be had from playing 40K, in my opinion of course. +1. Don't focus on other people's list, focus on your own and make it balanced. Then match things up properly. So, he's got a Vindy, lone Vindy. Well it'll have PotMS, but it's likely a distraction. It has short range, and if it moves into range then you can easily get side armour. So forget about it for a time. Focus first on his Rhinos. Ground the Initiates in his deployment, those Rhinos are soft and regular missiles will do fine. Then, if you're going to shoot them, shoot one squad at a time, otherwise they'll come closer. Now for his problem units, the Terminators. I'm guessing he sticks them in cover to help them against low AP weapons? Again, focus one at a time, try to get a wound on them with not your best weapon, as he'll likely pass RZ and move out of the cover. Then shoot them with your low AP weapons, assault them etc. BT are an army that you can pull around when you cause casualties. Also bear in mind they still use old target priority, and at -1Ld. Use this to your advantage, move less valuable units closer to the Terminators and make them pass those leadership tests to not shoot them. If you change to a different PA army make good use of smoke, if not then I'd set up refused flank, take out the Rhinos and Vindy as early as you can, and then you've got the upper hand. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3021042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSO88 Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 I agree that the best players are able to use what they have and apply them at the right time in the right situation, however I'm not that good and it's been bugging me on how to beat that list :) Also the Kill'em all rule doesn't exist anymore so he doesn't have to do target priority test anymore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3021605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Did they take that out? Well shows I haven't had contact with Black Templars for a while :P. In the end, no matter what units you take in your army, you're going to have to get your target priorities right, just as he would be doing. If he sees 3 Vindicators and 3 Rifleman you can be sure he'll chuck the missiles at the Rifleman first to stop you popping his transports, then the Vindicators before they can close range and blow things up. As has been said Deathwing would be a good bet, especially if you have a few storm shields and lightning claws in the list, then you can stand toe to toe with his Terminators in assault, where they don't want to be, and crush his Crusader squads, where they do want to be. His missiles shooting at your Terminators will only be S8 and more importantly give you a 2+ save, if he uses frag missiles they'll still be S4, not S5. In the end though, even if you do build a list with some good counters, but still lose, be sure to ask him where he thought you went wrong, what you could have done better. Only by learning do we become better players, and in no time you'll be matching up your lists better like others do. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3021837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Of Malfeasance X Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Multi Melta attack bikes. Squadrons of 3. Cheap and effective, compatible with most SM armies. Eat terminators, broadsides, battlewagons, nobz and paladins. With two wounds, you can rush them through cover with impunity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3021914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSO88 Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 My DW is my strongest list at the moment, but it gets kind of boring, list is: Belial TH/SS Ezekiel 1 termie sqd All TH/SS Apoth and banner 5*termie sqds All Th/SS + CML So deploy block of 5 termie sqds with Ezekiel and walk forward, Belial and cmd sqd DW assault or stay in regular reserve depending on what's needed. I have come to the conclussion that all my armies beside my DW will most likely fail against he's list because they are all Mech meta like lists and he's list is perfect to counter that, so should I come up against him I'll try my best and not think to much of it should I lose. Thanks for all the reply's! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3023162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Try mixing in some non-TH/SS models? Just a suggestions, but I've been considering a Deathwing list for a while and one thing I'd want to do to make it interesting is have different models in each squad. Allows wound allocation and isn't just a massive wall of TH/SSs and CMLs marching up the field. Just a small thought, I find that when I get bored with my Marines putting a couple of changes into the list through either squad composition or force composition is enough to keep me interested. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3023202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSO88 Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 I've thought of doing wound allocation shinnanigans, but the SS wall works so much better in our local tournaments, I do have a fun list where I play them in 3 raiders and take Sammy in speeder instead of Ezekiel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3023245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I had a friend who always complained about his Purifier and Psyfleman list being boring. And when telling him to try something different he'd say pretty much the same thing "it makes the list weaker, I can't justify it". However, now he's no longer running them, running a Salamanders list (less comp Codex) with some less than competitive choices in the list. No longer full mech, Land Speeder Storms, no Hammernators, you get the idea, and enjoying his game much more. It's not a dig, and I can understand completely about how full TH/SS will be better in a tournament and more desirable, I'm not sure I'd be able to resist using Vulkan in my next tournament (when it comes). But even small little changes that make your force a little less competitive, like a couple of non TH/SS here and there can make your game so much better. It doesn't have to be about "fun" lists and "comp" lists, you can have the best of both in one list and still do well. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3023365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSO88 Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 This is true, last weekend I was halfway through the first game of a combat patrol tournament and realised my brain is to occupied with work , dexided to just relax and enjoy , still came 9th out of 24, os yes maybe I'll try getting back to the fun part and perhaps even do better that way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3023487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Well hope that works out for you, I know I'm not going back to my mech spam list since a switch to non-spam hybrid, having much more fun now. Let us know if you beat that list as well. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3023510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshadow Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Here is an example of what I would do. Take Lysander and 10 Sternguard and put them in a Drop Pod. Take Pedro and 10 more Sternguard and put them in another Drop Pod. Drop one within 12” of a terminator squad and in close proximity to an objective. Drop the other to take out the vindicator. Move the bike squad up to the Sternguard to give them support as needed. Use Telion to take out rhinos, speeders or to snipe of key models. The five man Scout squad is a multifunctional tool that can fill any role so use them as needed. The Dreadnought drops in later in the game to get side/rear armor and to fill in where it is most needed. This is an all comers list that is often good but never great. HQ: Lysander 200p Pedro: 175p Elites: 10x Sternguard: Fist, 5x combi, Drop Pod 335p 10x Sternguard: Fist, 5x combi, Drop Pod 335p Dreadnought: 2x TLAC, Drop Pod. 155p Troops: 10x Scouts: Telion, 8x Sniper, Missile. 200p 5x Scouts: Fist, Missile, Cloaks. 125p Fast: 5x Bikes: Fist, 2x Flamers, Attack Bike W/ Multi Melta. 225p 1750p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3024494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSO88 Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 I'm not a fan of dual character builds, although I do have a Khan Shrike Tri star list that might just work. What combi's on the sternguard? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3026280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDoom Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I agree that the best players are able to use what they have and apply them at the right time in the right situation, however I'm not that good and it's been bugging me on how to beat that list ;) Also the Kill'em all rule doesn't exist anymore so he doesn't have to do target priority test anymore. Black Templars still have to take Target Priority tests. Take a look at the Codex update that got put out for them a few months ago. Bottom of the second column on page 2. As for the rest I play Chaos so can't really help you. Good uck though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3026389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSO88 Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 My bad I just read the Kill em all rule on the first page, second column of the FAQ and that made it seem like they don't need to. Thanks so much because I know he doesnt play it that way! MMM 3 psyker squads here I come! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3026584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshadow Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 You can have any combis you like :D . I don’t think you can take a bad combi weapon on a poding sternguard unit ;). In this specific case though, Plasma and Melta may serve you better than flamer. But I am still not convinced that it isn’t a tie… If you don’t like Pedro, I’d suggest substituting him for more cc scouts, on bikes ore in a speeder Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3027406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 IMO the go-to combi, that is never ever wasted points, is the combi-melta. Sternguard special ammo allows them to handle a wide variety of targets, from light infantry to heavy infantry, guys in cover, long-range fire-fights against 4+ saves. They can even do MCs and TEQ at a pinch, thanks to hellfire rounds. However, they struggle massively against vehicles, and that's where the combi-meltas come in. The 3 targets they're weakest against in terms of effective killing are vehicles, 2+ saves and arguably MCs. As stated hellfire gives them a shot at the latter two, but not tanks. Combi-meltas do though, and if there are no tanks or you don't need them against tanks in the end, they are still good against 2+ save units and MCs, due to low model count more often that not. Not that the other combis are bad, but you can't go wrong with the combi-melta. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249412-how-would-you-counter-this/#findComment-3027578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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