Nuances of Chaos

[Dammeron]

One of the things that fascinates me most about the mythology of Chaos is not the explicitly stated detail (Khorne is the God of hatred and rage, Nurgle is the lord of decay and despair), but the implied or sub-textual dynamics that exist between the four great powers. For example, have you noticed that two primary "poles" of the Chaos star -Khorne to Slaanesh, Tzeentch to Nurgle- each operate on a sliding scale from the collective to the singular and/or vice versa? To clarify, let's take the Khorne-Slaanesh pole. Both of these gods occupy antipodean points in the Chaos spectrum; they derive their power and influence from more or less contradictpry drives and urges, and therefore embody one another's opposite. Khorne is selfless and egalitarian; he has no concept of personal desire or self indulgence: he is self sacrifice and dedication to an abstract cause embodied; a characteristic that is exhibited by his followers, who are generally not cruel or mercurial individuals, but sacrifice all notions of self, will and personality to the singular cause of slaying the enemy and spilling blood. By the same token, Slaanesh is a patron of individuals and self absorbtion; all notions of concern or empathy sacrificed to the desires of the individual. All others exist as nothing more than a means to slake or manifest desire (or to provide praise and adoration). These opposing dynamics are reflected back in the Warp in the natures of the Gods that are both their inspiration and products: Khorne's influence is vast and unrelenting, whereas Slaanesh's is comparatively small and specifically focused; the nature of Slaanesh's power is that, unlike the hatred of Khorne, which is far more enduring and obsessive than love, it will eventually expend itself as desire does, waiting to build and overwhelm once more.

 

A similar dynamic exists between Tzeentch and Nurgle; Tzeentch is generally portrayed as the more powerful and senior Chaos God (almost rivalling Khorne in terms of influence), but in this dynamic is the patron of the self and the individual; Tzeentch favours those who seek self transformation and transcendence; who sacrifice all concerns to the betterment of the intellect or of the social and political position. Those who crave personal glory and power are those who draw his attention, even if the cause or goal in question is ostensibly noble or egalitarian in nature (since no such endeavour is ever even attempted without a healthily swollen ego to ride it). Tzeentch himself is similarly mercurial and obsessive; his lesser daemons lacking personality, individual will or even consistent substance; all serving as external functionaries of the greater daemons; creatures of vastly superior will, ambition and intellect, which in turn are merely functionaries of Tzeentch's own ineffable intellect. He is a god of self obsession, and in this regard demonstrates a great deal of overlap aspect-wise with Slaanesh. Nurgle, by contrast, is a god of the many; indiscriminate in his affections, accepting any and all who call to him, or even happen to stumble into his embrace. Just as Tzeentch represents the development and elaboration of the self and the ego, Nurgle represents their abandonment and decay; the dissolution of self definition that stems from lacking any hope for the future; only certain knowledge of the decay and misery it will bring. That is why Nurgle's daemons, in contrast to Tzeentch's, are full of voluble personality; they are not merely tools or expressions of agenda; they are more akin to a mass of children for whom the God demonstrates unerringly selfless love and affection. It is also why Nurgle demonstrates such sense of humour; he not only "gets the joke;" he is the embodiment of it; that all mortal hope and endeavour (embodied by his brother and rival) is ultimately fruitless, no matter how profound or far reaching, no matter what transcendent achievment inspiration concocts; all ultimately comes to ruin, decay and silence, all of which are Nurgle's domains. Tzeentch, on the other hand, is the defiance of all certainty; the Lord of Change; quixotic hope for transcending all parameters; even those imposed by biology or physical law. He is the means of breaking what one is born to, even if it means consigning oneself to the absurdity of constant transformation; the abandonment of all definition, which is surely the highest condition any servant of Tzeentch could aspire to.

 

The stuff that one can read between the lines concerning Chaos as a metaphysical or philosophical system within the 40K universe is utterly fascinating, especially when one has such potent reference material as the RoC books and the Liber Chaotica to work from. I'd be very interested to hear what other shave inferred or interpreted from their own readings.

[totgeboren]

TL:DR

 

Nah, just kidding. This is an observation I hadn't done myself, but I really like it. So much can be made and said of the chaos pantheon, it really is a shame GW often just makes them into something incredibly 2D, in my mind without good reason.

 

I hope they bring some more depth back to the chaos fluff, things like the above ideas. It makes for a much better read, and makes you connect to your models more, meaning you buy more stuff.

[minigun762]

Interesting analysis and it really speaks to the contradictory nature of Chaos.

 

Chaos is anything and everything you want or fear it to be. I don't remember the source of the quote, but it came from a Tzeentchian follower who expressed all of the other god's whims as but aspects of change with the point that Tzeentch was really all powerful. And the beauty of Chaos is that its true, but its also true that the aspects of each god could be thought of in terms of any individual god, if one looks hard enough.

[Chengar Qordath]

Nah, just kidding. This is an observation I hadn't done myself, but I really like it. So much can be made and said of the chaos pantheon, it really is a shame GW often just makes them into something incredibly 2D, in my mind without good reason.

 

I hope they bring some more depth back to the chaos fluff, things like the above ideas. It makes for a much better read, and makes you connect to your models more, meaning you buy more stuff.

Have to agree there; within the fandom Chaos seems to be just about constantly struggling to avoid getting narrowly pigeonholed into one-word definitions (Khorne = Blood! Slaanesh = Boobies! Nurgle = Disease! and Tzeentch = Magic). It's a shame so much of the material encourages that kind of one-dimensional thinking, because Chaos is much more interesting when it actually has some depth and complexity. I really liked some the older material where, instead of being transparently evil cardboard cutouts, the Chaos gods had a few bits of ambiguity to them, like Khorne being the god of martial valor as well as wanton bloodshed, or Papa Nurgle loving all his pestilential pus-oozing children.

[Kol Saresk]

What I loved out of the recent fluff was in Hammer of Daemons by Ben Counter. He shows quite a bit of a Khornate only daemon world an you see so much more to them than just people killing each other. They have somewhere you see someone noticing a statue of Khorne in his executioner aspect(paraphrased) and someone else says something about Khorne having a Warrior aspect as well as six others.(Go figure.)

[Azarias]

I remember the Codex: CSM before the current one had an interesting bit of fluff in it. Something about a low-tech world that understood the four Gods as four winds, which brought with them different attributes. It was the first hint to a younger me that Chaos could be a positive force as well. I've always kept that in my mind as I go through the Horus Heresy Books, especially with regards to ADB's Word Bearers. Comparing the pre-Heresy legion with the post-Heresy legion (in the respective forms of The First Heretic and Dark Apostle), you see such a disparity in philosophy and their approach to, well, everything. What I'm looking forward to, as the series goes on, is the way in which the authors will navigate this disparity, writing it so that the descent into horror is understandable. So that it's not just a matter of the Word Bearers becoming kick-the-puppy villains, but an intellectually cohesive body. So that all the horror, from their perspective and ours, becomes not a descent into madness, but an exploration of an altered, but still coherent, perspective.

[Trevak Dal]

Well, I've always said I only ever liked Khorne and Tzeentch, pretty much for the reasons you listed-it's just I hadn't listed them as eloquently as you have/thought it out. Slaanesh is a waif, and Nurgle can go screw him/her/it for his bubbly "There's no point cause it's all going to fail anyways," mindset.

 

At least with Tzeentch and Khorne, you feel like you got something to strive for. And plague marines have the same Feel No Pain that the Glampires do.

 

Glampires gotta die, as do zombies.

[TheDarkApostle]

I really like one of the descriptions from the Book of Tzeentch regarding the Lords of Change greater daemons.

 

"I am not sure whether He was blue or yellow, or indeed an entirely difference or new colour for which there is no name or word to describe. His hue changed from moment to moment, perhaps because the daemon did not regard it as relevant that He should retain any constancy of colour or appearance."

 

Also, I suggest reading closer on the Cults of Khorne.

 

There you will find that not only does Khorne greatly favor martial pride, but cold betrayal as well :P

 

TDA

[totgeboren]

I remember the Codex: CSM before the current one had an interesting bit of fluff in it. Something about a low-tech world that understood the four Gods as four winds, which brought with them different attributes. It was the first hint to a younger me that Chaos could be a positive force as well. I've always kept that in my mind as I go through the Horus Heresy Books, especially with regards to ADB's Word Bearers. Comparing the pre-Heresy legion with the post-Heresy legion (in the respective forms of The First Heretic and Dark Apostle), you see such a disparity in philosophy and their approach to, well, everything. What I'm looking forward to, as the series goes on, is the way in which the authors will navigate this disparity, writing it so that the descent into horror is understandable. So that it's not just a matter of the Word Bearers becoming kick-the-puppy villains, but an intellectually cohesive body. So that all the horror, from their perspective and ours, becomes not a descent into madness, but an exploration of an altered, but still coherent, perspective.

 

I think The First Heretic gave a somewhat good foundation to stand on in regard to the development of the Word Bearers in the following 10k years. I mean, even back then, they had astropaths tortured for weeks until they died, in order to fuel a daemonic psyblocking device. Argel Tal, who seem to really not like any of this kills a bunch of friendly humans when searching through the ship, without much more than a 'opps' thought. Sure, he was not fully in control, but tell that to the humans who got their skulls smashed by a possessed supposedly friendly marine.

 

The only thing they really need to make clear is that chaos cares for their own. It is an integral part of especially Nurgle, and Khorne is all about dying for the cause, and this quite important aspect of Chaos should be stated.

 

For example, if we skip forward 10k years, we have the Dark Apostle book, where they certainly do not treat the population of the conquered world kindly. But we need to remember that the plan all along was to destroy the world. They didn't have any need to turn the population in a way that they would stay loyal to the Word Bearers, they just needed them to work as hard as possible, as fast as possible, really in digging their own graves. If they did not complete the work in time, all the Word Bearers would be dead along with the rest of the population. The population was dead either way you put it, and I think that would affect how the WB treated them. The population was also made up of Imperials from the point of view of the Word Bearers, and they really, really hate Imperials. I think they would simply regard them as being beyond concern, because they did not accept the Word. I mean, the Imperium kills their own for higher causes all the time, but that does not mean that is what the Imperium is all about. And they kill chaos followers without possibility of conversion, which is quite a bit more extreme than what the Word Bearers do.

I think Chaos should/could be the same way. If for example the Word Bearers can maintain factory worlds, Hive worlds with the attendant agroworlds, they can't treat all their loyal subject as they did in Dark Apostle, the system simply would not work.

It should be clear that the Word Bearers primary long term goal is the safety and salvation of the human race, just as it was back in The First Heretic, but access to the power needed for that safety is not without cost. The Black Legion seem to mainly have the goal of bringing the Imperium down, and as such seem to care less for humans than the WB. The IW, NL, and AL all their their own approaches and goals, but are much smaller players in comparison to the BL and the WB.

 

Some of the mono-God legions really do have a different approach, which makes it a bit harder to sympathise. As Dammeron stated, both Slaanesh and Tzeentch are at their cores selfish concepts, and their die-hard followers see everyone else as mere tools for their own satisfaction. And the self-destruction of both Khorne and Nurgle would make it hard for such followers to successfully interact with humans. But the undivided ones, the WB and BL, who are by far the largest Legions, and who both really embrace the Dark Pantheon, should really be presented as a sort of stabilising core within the Traitor Legions and their domains.

 

I think focus on a single God could be made more interesting, like the honour bound Khorne warrior, or a philanthropic Tzeentchian schemer, or a Slaanesh politician leading his people, because he just knows he is the best man for the job. I dunno about Nurgle, the most jovial and caring one. Maybe a doctor who goes to far, becoming obsessed with saving and prolonging life no matter the cost?

 

But the single-God aspects will always be more tricky to bring depth to, by the simple fact that they are the focus on a single sort of idea/emotion.

[TheDarkApostle]

A simple farmer husband finding his family and village murdered and burned while away waging war in the name of his local Lord falling into depression and sickness as he's left alone but finally finding "salvation" and kindred spirits among the chosen of Nurgle.

 

Or something like that?

 

Liber Chaotica has a few good ones for all of the big four powers.

 

TDA

[firestorm40k]

Interesting thread – very intelligent and well written opening post, by the way :)

 

Something that fascinates me about the four main powers is that, despite their continual rivalries/conflicts, there is an unconscious symbiotic relationship between them.

 

Take, for example, the commander of an army (not necessarily one in thrall to Chaos). As a soldier, they will have installed in them martial pride, as well as the skill (and when necessary, the will) to kill their enemy. When they fight, they enjoy the adrenaline of battle. It is their ambition and personal desire that will have lead them to seek their position of command. As they wage their war, it is inevitable that hunger and hardship – including, most likely, disease – will be left in their wake. Even in battle, with their own comrades and foes, there is compassion in releasing people from their horrendous battle wounds through the mercy of death.

 

Therefore, I believe that, although at times one of the Powers may push to the fore, the others are there. Trevak Dal, though you may favour Khorne & Nurgle, you would be unwise to ignore the influence and purpose of Slaanesh or Nurgle.

 

It is for these reasons that I find it hard to choose any of the Powers over the other. But if I had to, it would be Nurgle. Decay is universal – eventually my body will succumb to age, and most likely disease. Even the Universe itself will one day die, as after an un-imaginable length of time, every star will die out. Embracing mortality, death, means embracing one’s life and living it to the full. And as stated, Nurgle is the most loving and all-embracing of the four Powers, to those who turn to him.

[Yogi]

Imma ramble.

 

The extremism of the mono god worship becomes tedious. There may be subtext there, but it needs to be explored more. Warriors of Khorne should still be different. They shouldn't all be red with bunny ears. Indeed I would love to see warbands where they retain much of their orginal culture just warped hideously to Khornate worship. There are hints of this now. IIRC Outcast dead had a World Eater say "War cares not from whence the blood flows." This is cool in the sense that Khorne worship has warped original beliefs rather then replacing them.

 

With all the new material on chaos over the years, and the influence of ADB I think chaos is evolving further into a new creature, it will never be slaves to darkness again, but perhaps this new version will have depth also.

 

With Undivided, there are a variety of ways to look at it. Reverently worshipping the panethon as a whole. Making offerings to specifc gods or even aspects of them for favor. Employing them like weapons. All very interesting.

 

I think it would also help if a fall, was chronicled more slowly. (this has been done but I am not satisfied) It shouldn't be a switch you hit and suddenly your armours warped and you have a tenacle. And it seems like after a certain point you stop (abaddon is just a guy with archaic armour and a daemon sword). Dudes with two heads should be normal. Armour should be unrecognisable. I shouldn't need rhinos, I should have daemonic alternatives.

 

If you hang out in the warp for a millenia, you are being warped also. You really should look like this.

 

http://i.imgur.com/t7VSG.jpg

[Kol Saresk]

If you hang out in the warp for a millenia, you are being warped also. You really should look like this.

 

http://i.imgur.com/t7VSG.jpg

Cthulthu!

 

Seriously somewhat related: This is similar to how I envision the Blood Gorgons to look. Not just because of the cover art but because they are always described to have a crustacean-like armor that is living around them.

 

But yes, Chaos is finally having more and more character put to it other than "We come for you! With daemons, marines and slaves oh my!".

[Brother Ambroz]

I've thought about this alot as well. One of the things that I always think is that every emotion it seems can be traced to one of the four gods in some way shape or form. Pretty awesome in my opinion. The 2D aspect gets old the moment it is written/typed/voiced and I really do hope they expand it more. I'd love if they started introducing some minor gods again as well as I think it would further enrich the fluff.

[minigun762]

I'd love if they started introducing some minor gods again as well as I think it would further enrich the fluff.

 

That was one of my biggest learning curves while getting into the hobby and the background, that not everything in the warp is directly related to the big 4. The Forge of Souls is the prime example of that, a true independent entity within the warp.

 

So adding some extra fish to the sea would be a nice addition.

[Dammeron]

I'd love if they started introducing some minor gods again as well as I think it would further enrich the fluff.

 

That was one of my biggest learning curves while getting into the hobby and the background, that not everything in the warp is directly related to the big 4. The Forge of Souls is the prime example of that, a true independent entity within the warp.

 

So adding some extra fish to the sea would be a nice addition.

 

 

Back in the early days of the game (RoC era), it was entirely possible and encouraged for players to concoct their own minor warp entities and chaos patrons. Daemon Princes were also regarded as so powerful andf unearthly that they could function as the patrons of warbands in and of themselves; sort of demi gods who could bestow marks, gifts etc just like a chaos god. RoC: The Lost and the Damned contains an example of such ane entity, which actually began life as a Skaven character created by one of the writers!

 

There is far more overlap and interplay even between the diametrically opposing gods and powers than current preconceptions of chaos generally allow for; though the likes of Khorne and Slaanesh exist at opposite ends of a pole, that pole and its constituent aspects represent a spectrum that slips and slides, weaves and bleeds into itself, the chaos powers melding, tearing apart, mating and marrying in ways that are difficult to comprehend, much lest define.

 

For example, though Khorne is indeed the patron of self sacrifice and cleaving to abstract ideals, he, his daemons and his followers also demonstrate a desire to fulfil and exhibit these qualities, and a visceral satisfaction in their manifestation; all experiences over which Slaanesh has a degree of influence. Similarly, when a Slaaneshi creatures takes pleasure in war and the spilling of blood, then a certain degree of its actions and the resultant emotions would feed not only Slaanesh, but the blood God too. It isn't as simple as this activity being committed in the name of this chaos power therefore all of the emotional energy expended being absorbed by that chaos power; the Warp and its mechanisms are simply far too complex and contradictory for that. Nurgle and Slaanesh have massive amounts of overlap in terms of what they represent and what sustains them; the theatrical creativity and inspiration of Nurgle and his daemons; the unalloyed pleasure they take in the experience of suffering and physical morbidity...I can imagine servants of Slaanesh and Nurgle getting on a little too well, if you get my drift; after all, the suite of fresh experiences the manifold diseases of Nurgle provide must be attractive to particularly jaded Slaanesh servants, which might in fact lead to the creation of a character who reveres both, or slips from the embrace of one into the other. Tzeentch and Slaanesh also share many aspects in common: both patrons of self interested, egotistical individuals, both enshrining and encouraging self transformation and transcendence; both being patrons of intellectuals, artists and generally inspired individuals. One might even imagine that entirely new -albeit minor or ephemeral- entities might spring up in the war where the most evident of these overlaps occur; either new entities in and of themselves or fresh aspects of the chaos gods in question, representing points at which not only their aspects, but their incorporeal stuffs meld and flow into one another. Given this analysis, it seems the "purist" of the four, fittingly enough, is Khorne, since his aspects, though shared in some respect by some of his brothers, are primarily his own, and antithetical to the rest. Only Nurgle as the patron of death seems to share any meaningful or significant overlap.

[Kol Saresk]

Khorne and Nurgle I could see being like brothers. Khorne feeds Nurgle's crows. Nurgle's warriors place skulls at the base of the Skull Throne. And I definitely see your other points as well. I'm pretty sure we can all check out Firestorm's Legion of Taurus and see this point illustrated again very well with Tauran.

[firestorm40k]

Thanks for the name drop, Kol_Saresk :lol:

 

With my Legion of Taurus, the daemon they follow, Tauran, has it’s own agenda, but has at times served each of the Four powers, and in return they have marked Tauran for greatness, so they support the Legion of Taurus in their wars by sending their favoured troops, e.g. warbands of Plague Marines or Berzerkers.

[Dammeron]

Thanks for the name drop, Kol_Saresk :D

 

With my Legion of Taurus, the daemon they follow, Tauran, has it’s own agenda, but has at times served each of the Four powers, and in return they have marked Tauran for greatness, so they support the Legion of Taurus in their wars by sending their favoured troops, e.g. warbands of Plague Marines or Berzerkers.

 

 

This chimes quite profoundly with the background for my own Undivided warband, The Serpent's Children, who are a schism of the original Emperor's Children who did not follow their brother's descent into hedonism and Slaanesh worship. Instead, they pursue a corrupt but rigid form of the Emperor's Children's original philosophy concerning the pursuit of perfection; they believe that Chaos in all its multafrious forms and aspects represents all potential, and therefore the very definition of perfection. By contrast, the limitations of the Emperor and the Imperium they once served seem paltry and antithetical to any notion of perfection one might conceive. In the interests of balancing the humours and favours of the Four Great Powers, they actively court and seek out those in their service, seeking to balance and bring harmony to that which is, by definition, chaotic and unruly. They fully comprehend and acknowledge this contradiction, believing that ambiguity and contradiction are essential to any pursuit of the perfection they envisage (since, by definition, that which is perfect must inhabit a condition of contradiction; inhabiting all states and possibilities; even those that stand in defiance of one another). As such, like Maguns the Red and his Thousand Sons, they fully believe that Chaos can be made to serve humanity; indeed, that it represents the only hope it or any other conscious species has for survival and transcendence. However, unlike the Thousand Sons, they do not seek to actively control it via domination of the Ruinous Powers, rather they seek a state of harmony; a kind of balance in which the Great Powers may be alligned and integrated into a system of self sustaining potential, which will then reflect back from the Warp across all of the conscious species of the universe, initiating what they believe will be a grand transcendence beyond the dichotomy of matter and energy to something far grander than both.

[Brother Augustine]

I dunno about Nurgle, the most jovial and caring one. Maybe a doctor who goes to far, becoming obsessed with saving and prolonging life no matter the cost?

 

Funny you should mention that. In the Warhammer Fantasy Fluff their is a Chaos Character known as Festus the Leechlord who before turning to Chaos was actually a physician. He was trying desperately to discover the cure for various diseases and the more he studied the more he felt like it was an impossible task and when he eventually fell into despair he found Nurgle which led to him realizing the "best" way to save people from the pain of disease.

 

On another note, I enjoy how in the novels the Chaos Marines really are just dark reflections of their Imperial counterparts. They even acknowledge this in McNiel's "Dead Sky Black Sun" when Uriel and Honsou meet one another. Uriel sees a lot of himself in the Warsmith and realizes that with a different upbringing he could have easily been in Honsou's shoes. Then there is Talos aka "Soul Hunter" from the Night Lords novels, who actually has a closer emotional relationship with his human slaves

(two of whom are captured Imperials)

than most Imperial Astartes have with their supposed allies. And lets not forget that Chaplains and Dark Apostles both use the exact same words to describe the other side of the warzone and the only real difference is how their followers view them. Well, and that Dark Apostles summon daemons, but that is just semantics.

[totgeboren]

I dunno about Nurgle, the most jovial and caring one. Maybe a doctor who goes to far, becoming obsessed with saving and prolonging life no matter the cost?

 

Funny you should mention that. In the Warhammer Fantasy Fluff their is a Chaos Character known as Festus the Leechlord who before turning to Chaos was actually a physician. He was trying desperately to discover the cure for various diseases and the more he studied the more he felt like it was an impossible task and when he eventually fell into despair he found Nurgle which led to him realizing the "best" way to save people from the pain of disease.

 

Thank you! I needed you to point out that this was a good idea for me to realizes this was a good idea. :)

I have had a unit (more like two units) of Plague Marines in a box ever since 2:ed, and I have been wanting to use them. As I play Word Bearers, I have not found a fluff explanation I liked for including them, but I now realized;

A Word Bearer Apothecary discovers a way to raise his brothers from the dead, using a daemon virus. The rules for Plague Marines work perfectly, so now I now just need to make a Word Bearer Apothecary to lead them into battle. Sweet. :P

[Dammeron]

I dunno about Nurgle, the most jovial and caring one. Maybe a doctor who goes to far, becoming obsessed with saving and prolonging life no matter the cost?

 

Funny you should mention that. In the Warhammer Fantasy Fluff their is a Chaos Character known as Festus the Leechlord who before turning to Chaos was actually a physician. He was trying desperately to discover the cure for various diseases and the more he studied the more he felt like it was an impossible task and when he eventually fell into despair he found Nurgle which led to him realizing the "best" way to save people from the pain of disease.

 

On another note, I enjoy how in the novels the Chaos Marines really are just dark reflections of their Imperial counterparts. They even acknowledge this in McNiel's "Dead Sky Black Sun" when Uriel and Honsou meet one another. Uriel sees a lot of himself in the Warsmith and realizes that with a different upbringing he could have easily been in Honsou's shoes. Then there is Talos aka "Soul Hunter" from the Night Lords novels, who actually has a closer emotional relationship with his human slaves

(two of whom are captured Imperials)

than most Imperial Astartes have with their supposed allies. And lets not forget that Chaplains and Dark Apostles both use the exact same words to describe the other side of the warzone and the only real difference is how their followers view them. Well, and that Dark Apostles summon daemons, but that is just semantics.

 

 

Most certainly. One of the more interesting facets of the 40K universe is that the moral shadings range from a distinct shade of dark grey to beyond black out inot a kind of negative colour spectrum. Put simply, there are no "good guys" or " bad guys;" there are only varying shades of ideological extremists who fight, kill, maim, supress and torture in the name of this or that. In certain respects, those who serve Chaos are quantifiably correct, in that not only are the Four Great Powers evidently existing divinities, they also demonstrate a potential for actual reward and immortality, and no matter what everyone else does or what they do it in the name of, they are all ultimately consigned and condemned to Chaos in the end. The only exceptions to this thus far are the likes of certain Eldar sub cultures and the Tyranids; the former because they have managed to forestall the inevitable via synthetic means, such as in the cases of the Craftworld spirit-matrices and the Dark Eldar Haemonculi genetically and spiritually tweaking themselves to create a more synthetic immortality, the latter because they operate in an emotional spectrum that exists outside of what fuels and foments chaos, and are therefore inured to it.

 

The brass tacks of the Imperial Vs. Chaos dynamic are as follows:

 

- You kill, maim, suppress, persecute, commit mass genocide etc in the name of the Emperor and the Imperial truth.

 

OR

 

- You do exactly the same in the name of Chaos. The fact that one happens to be spiky and baroque whilst doing it and the other insists on its own righteousness is neither here nor there, certainly not to those who are variously suppressed, murdered, mutilated, tormented etc.

 

Then you have the alien races, who are variously brainless space thugs (orks), xenophobic genetic supremacists (Eldar, Necrons), ideologically extreme hypocrites (Tau) or mono-maniacal monstrosities who just want to eat everything (Tyranids).

 

There are no "good guys" here; only those who insist on themselves as such, even whilst they're taking chainswords and flamers to defenceless "enemies."

[Dammeron]

In point of fact, you could argue that, in terms of motivation and intent, certain followers of Chaos are the most selfless, generous and "moral" beings in the 40K universe. Take the Death Guard, for example; unlike many Chaos legions, they don't act out of hate; they act out of mercy and generosity, spreading the gifts and wisdom of Grandfather Nurgle far and wide, regardless of what opposition they might face. Similarly, the Word Bearers do not "slaughter" and "oppress" as Imperial propaganda might suggest; they liberate and enlighten, sending the souls of those blinded from birth screaming into the bosom of Chaos that is the ultimate truth.

 

Compare and contrast these against the likes of the Space Wolves, who are intolerant, bigoted butchers who kill because they are animals that like to kill, or out of ideological intolerance and xenophobia, or the Black Templars, who are simply the Word Bearers in different coloured armour and who use slightly different language as they burn, murder and mutilate the "heretical."

[Kol Saresk]

Then you get the Night Lords who kill, maim, burn and torture because it is fun. :) Ave Dominus Nox my friends.

[Dammeron]

Then you get the Night Lords who kill, maim, burn and torture because it is fun. -_- Ave Dominus Nox my friends.

 

 

And then there's the Night Lords...and even they, nihilistic as they are, exhibit degrees and nuances of perspective and motivation. Some cling to some distortion of the Night Haunter's original tenets, believing what they do right and just, others have embraced bitterness and damnation wholesale and now just live for their own sadistic pleasures and self satisfaction. All of the established legions and their offshoots demonstrate degrees of internal variety. In fact, a way of taking this topic forward that might be interesting is exploring how the characters and ethos of each Traitor Legion might potentially manifest, given various interpretations thereof. Even the "cult" legions, ostensibly extreme as they seem, demonstrate all manner of internal schisms and offshoots depending on philosophy: both the mono-maniacal arrogance and self supremacy of Lucious the Eternal and the obsession with life and its improvement exhibited by Fabius Bile deriving from the same core tenets; Typhus the Herald standing at stark odds with his Primarch, Mortarion, even though they are both extremely high ranking followers of the same power...