Wulfen question?

[Octoape]

Okay so as stated in the title, I have a wulfen question.

Can a wulfen still use equipment that isn't a ccw? For example could a wulfen wear termie armor, carry a storm shield, or wield a combi-melta/flamer??

 

A definitive answer would be great my group and I often debate the subject.

 

Thanks all.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

You can kit your MotW model with anything you'd like to, but it says right in the Codex that the model with the Mark makes all of his attacks with his teeth and 'claws' (the reason for the rending ability, I assume...) so you are loosing the attacks with said weapon. A storm shield would still give you the 3+ invuln save. Keep in mind the MotW is only in effect when the model is attacking.

 

End of Line

[Octoape]

Like I said no special ccw's . The people I argue with often cite the fact that wulfen are wild and crazy so they're to far gone to utilize specialized equipment etc.

 

Thanks though sir, a wulfen with a storm shield would be great. Maybe . . . That or a point sink.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

I'm thinking the later of the two!! :)

 

Too crazy too shoot, doubt it.

 

End of Line

[Wulfebane]

No matter what you give them, they cannot use it in melee. Same for Stormshields. Assume the second they charge, they toss their gear to the ground and rush in.. like a hockey player when he tosses his stick/gloves.

 

In the shooting phase, however, they can use whatever you gave them.

[dswanick]

Okay so as stated in the title, I have a wulfen question.

Can a wulfen still use equipment that isn't a ccw? For example could a wulfen wear termie armor, carry a storm shield, or wield a combi-melta/flamer??

 

A definitive answer would be great my group and I often debate the subject.

 

Thanks all.

Are we talking fluff-wise, here, or rules-wise?

 

If the later :

"A model bearing the Mark of the Wulfen has the Rending special rule in close combat. Furthermore he replaces his usual Attacks characteristic with d6+1, rolled immediately prior to when the model makes his attacks. These attacks are made using the marked models' claws and teeth, and hence are not affected by wargear, additional hand weapons and so on, though they may be bolstered by other factors (the bonus for charging, Logan Grimnar's Living legend ability, etc).", Codex: Space Wolves, Pg.62

then only the models close combat attacks are unaffected by wargear. Terminator armor doesn't affect a models close combat attacks. Nor does a Storm Shield or a Combi-weapon. A Power weapon would affect the models close combat attacks so may not be used, as does a second ccw.

[Tybrus]

I agree 100000% with what has been said above, but I do feel that I must point out that at least at the tournaments I have gone to, it has been ruled that a "marked" Grey hunter can not only cary but can use anything given. The only exception is that in H2H they can not use wargear (ruled to mean power weapons, or powerfist/thunder hammer at our shops).

 

The most common build I have seen for the Wulfen here (Sadly) is a Meltagun/Standard/Boltpistol/Mark in a grey hunter pack. This is used to reduce the losses of upgrades to early deaths.

 

For the Record I run all my GH packs the same (full tooled)

 

1 Gh Meltagun, Standard, Boltpistol, Powerweapon

1 Gh Meltagun, boltpistol, CCW

1 GH Plasmapistol, bolter, CCW

1 GH Mark (Denoted by head and armed with twin CCW) this model can never fire a range attack in my army)

6 Standard GH

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Interesting. Most packs I see and run tend to go like this:

 

1 Wulfen

1 Melta

1 Fist

1 Standard

1 Wolf Guard

Any number of normals that let's them stay in Rhino transport capacity.

 

With the complete spread out of wargear, it means that when you get wrap around wounds, which is almost inevitable, you will never lose all your equipment in one go, which is naturally a good thing.

[Tybrus]

Interesting. Most packs I see and run tend to go like this:

 

1 Wulfen

1 Melta

1 Fist

1 Standard

1 Wolf Guard

Any number of normals that let's them stay in Rhino transport capacity.

 

With the complete spread out of wargear, it means that when you get wrap around wounds, which is almost inevitable, you will never lose all your equipment in one go, which is naturally a good thing.

 

No I understand that, but most time I foot slog it for my packs. Having 6 packs of GH on the table all built fully out, and running behind a wall of rhinos seems to work just fine for me.

 

Being able to take 6 deaths without one on the main point guys works oput better for me. I almost never expose myself to more then a turn of fire with about 5 wounds max and 3 deaths. Now I understand as we lose more its hard to shuffle the pain, but as I tent do get to the point of losing one a turn or so (in H2H at this point) I just pick that which is least useful

[Wulfebane]

Interesting. Most packs I see and run tend to go like this:

 

1 Wulfen

1 Melta

1 Fist

1 Standard

1 Wolf Guard

Any number of normals that let's them stay in Rhino transport capacity.

 

I was under the impression that at most a GH would take a power weapon and not a fist, as the WG get them cheaper.

[Grimtooth]

No matter what you give them, they cannot use it in melee. Same for Stormshields. Assume the second they charge, they toss their gear to the ground and rush in.. like a hockey player when he tosses his stick/gloves.

 

In the shooting phase, however, they can use whatever you gave them.

 

This has been shown to be wrong. MoW only affects close combat attacks.

 

 

Interesting. Most packs I see and run tend to go like this:

 

1 Wulfen

1 Melta

1 Fist

1 Standard

1 Wolf Guard

Any number of normals that let's them stay in Rhino transport capacity.

 

I was under the impression that at most a GH would take a power weapon and not a fist, as the WG get them cheaper.

 

The GH/WG with a powerfist is a debate of personal preference.

[Wulfebane]

This has been shown to be wrong. MoW only affects close combat attacks.

 

Isn't that what I said?

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

So will a Storm Shield still grant the 3+ invul save in CC??

 

End of Line

[Wulfebane]

So will a Storm Shield still grant the 3+ invul save in CC??

 

End of Line

 

No, as far as MotW is concerned, you have nothing but the Canis helix and whatever armor you happened to bring with you in CC.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

No matter what you give them, they cannot use it in melee. Same for Stormshields. Assume the second they charge, they toss their gear to the ground and rush in.. like a hockey player when he tosses his stick/gloves.

 

In the shooting phase, however, they can use whatever you gave them.

 

The SS has nothing to do with attacks. They can have the 3++ in mêlée.

 

This has been shown to be wrong. MoW only affects close combat attacks.

 

Isn't that what I said?

 

Whilst you did say it affects close combat attacks, you also said they cannot use SS, which is not true. They can get the 3++ from it.

 

So will a Storm Shield still grant the 3+ invul save in CC??

 

End of Line

 

No, as far as MotW is concerned, you have nothing but the Canis helix and whatever armor you happened to bring with you in CC.

 

This is not true. MotW only affects attacks in combat. It can have Terminator armour and/or SS, and will get the appropriate save from them.

[hendrik]

gotta agree with willie there!

[Wulfebane]

Is this confirmed somewhere? That's not how I've interpreted the rules and I can't find anything in the FAQ to say yay or nay.

 

If I'm wrong, then whatever, I'll suck it up, but I'd rather not go with hearsay or popular vote.

[hendrik]

"A model bearing the Mark of the Wulfen has the Rending special rule in close combat. Furthermore he replaces his usual Attacks characteristic with d6+1, rolled immediately prior to when the model makes his attacks. These attacks are made using the marked models' claws and teeth, and hence are not affected by wargear, additional hand weapons and so on, though they may be bolstered by other factors (the bonus for charging, Logan Grimnar's Living legend ability, etc)."

his attack characteristics get replaced and remain unaffected by other wargear, additional hand weapons etc. this means you COULD give your marked model a powerfist/thunderhammer aswell if you absolutly want him to have it, but his attacks won't be boltered by them. if he were a templar boy he would be just dragging them behind him by the chains while he rips open his opponents with his claws. a stormshield, while being wargear doesn't affect the attacking profile (it doesn't grant any +S,+I or even +xA, it only grants an inv. save).

it should be noted that having not having the extra A because he's using a stormshield gets negated because of the mark of the wulfen

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Is this confirmed somewhere? That's not how I've interpreted the rules and I can't find anything in the FAQ to say yay or nay.

 

If I'm wrong, then whatever, I'll suck it up, but I'd rather not go with hearsay or popular vote.

 

MotW:

"....Furthermore he replaces his usual Attacks characteristic with d6+1, rolled immediately prior to when the model makes his attacks. These attacks are made using the marked models' claws and teeth, and hence are not affected by wargear, additional hand weapons and so on,...."

 

The 'and hence' bit is talking about his attacks and These attacks, not anything to do with the rest of the mini.

 

A SS gives a 3++ save, which has nothing to do with the models' attacks, bar preventing getting an extra Attack from having an additional hand weapon.

 

So they don't actually overlap on what they do to a model, barring that they both prevent a model from getting a +1A for having a pistol and sword, for instance.

 

:P

[Spacefrisian]

Their are no rules for discarding any piece of wargear, so yes he keeps his stormshield.

 

 

Please do not try and use fluff to justify for rules cause fluff and rules are 2 different things.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

MotW:

"....Furthermore he replaces his usual Attacks characteristic with d6+1, rolled immediately prior to when the model makes his attacks. These attacks are made using the marked models' claws and teeth, and hence are not affected by wargear, additional hand weapons and so on,...."

 

The 'and hence' bit is talking about his attacks and These attacks, not anything to do with the rest of the mini.

 

A SS gives a 3++ save, which has nothing to do with the models' attacks, bar preventing getting an extra Attack from having an additional hand weapon.

 

So they don't actually overlap on what they do to a model, barring that they both prevent a model from getting a +1A for having a pistol and sword, for instance.

 

:P

 

QFT - exactly, but it goes on to say, '..though they may be bolstered by other factors (bonus for charging, Logan Grimnar's Living Legend ability, etc.).' So counter attack and Insane Bravado can also apply.

 

Remember MotW is not the same as being Wulfen. This is a brother known for his ferocity in close combat (battle frenzy) - wolf touched, but not Wulfen. So no pointy snout, fluffy ears and waggy tail required - unless you really want to.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Interesting. Most packs I see and run tend to go like this:

 

1 Wulfen

1 Melta

1 Fist

1 Standard

1 Wolf Guard

Any number of normals that let's them stay in Rhino transport capacity.

 

I was under the impression that at most a GH would take a power weapon and not a fist, as the WG get them cheaper.

 

I tend to go with dual fists. Five fist attacks on the charge is just too good for me to pass up. Plus, the Wulfen is better than a power weapon anyway.

[Octoape]

Okay so to clarify, motw, is as I assumed awesome sauce.

And can take storm shields and all the awesome stuff, and still get their awesome attacks and such.

I'm honestly surprised there was any debate I had thought that it was just myself and my group and since we're a bunch of back country provincial Luddites I assumed the rest of the world was in the know, especially since it's never been errata'd/ faq'd .

 

Thanks all.

 

And for the record I usually run my hunters as follows.

 

1gh melta

1gh fist

1gh motw

1gh wolf banner

1gh naked

1wg fist & combi melta/ storm bolter.

 

If foot slogging add 4 naked gh's, a melta gh ,and possibly a rune priest.

If drop podding add 4 naked gh's

 

And about half of the time I run half of them with flamers and a combi flamer instead because I love not having to roll to hit.

[Octoape]

Gah this seriously makes me consider a bunch of lone wolfs (wolves??) with motw, a storm shield, a combi flamer, and 2 wolves to eat up soft targets if only I could infiltrate the lone wolf argggh.

[WG Vrox]

Gah this seriously makes me consider a bunch of lone wolfs (wolves??) with motw, a storm shield, a combi flamer, and 2 wolves to eat up soft targets if only I could infiltrate the lone wolf argggh.

 

Keep in mind that a Lone Wolf does not have the option to take a Combi-Weapon unless he is in TDA.

 

I have been running a Lone Wolf in PA with SS/PP & MotW plus 2 Wolves for quite a while now, reason he is in PA is he borrows my Long Fangs RB for transportation to the front lines.