Purgators

[arisen]

I'm looking to assemble 2 squads of 5 purgators, but I just can't decide on 4x psycannon or 4x incinerator. They'll be getting a psyback either way though :) .

4 incinerators is cheap as hell, and will fry most anything it hits, even when forcing power armor saves, and then I'm not yet mentioning the hurt they put on nids or orks. But 4 psycannons can put a real dent in most things, and with cover everywhere, the 4+ cover from astral aim isn't such a big deal while keeping the cannons safe from return fire with some good positioning.

 

I'm aiming for 2 units of everything so I can write up different lists when I want to, and it's worth considering every other unit's got its full allotment of psycannons :) .

[Brother-Captain Stacius]

Part of me agrees with incinerators as after cracking a rhino/razor/serpent etc those 4 incinerators would be amazing. But I think the increased range and astral aim ability will be better with psycannons. You can use the psyback to hide behind and have a nice lethal unit. Suppose it's whether you prefer a rush down style or to take some terrain and hold it.

[Chengar Qordath]

As wonderful as a four-incinerator squad is at burninating things, they do run into some problematic tactical limitations. Getting them into burning range can be a bit problematic since most opponents will make a point of targeting their Razorback, and template weapons really need the extra mobility that comes with mechanization to get in range and gain ideal placement. Plus, if your Razorback has to move 12" to get your Purgators into flamer range, then it's not shooting it's weapons.

[Artemis360]

I spent quite a while thinking about purgators and I came to the conclusion that the only way I would run them is as follows:

 

10 purgators, psybolt ammo, halberds for everyone (or maybe a daemon hammer for justicar)

teleport homer

 

rhino = optional

 

 

To me the psycannons are crazy expensive and you might as well just use purifiers if youre looking for a squad that can carry 4 psycannons. Incinerators I don't like for the exact reason Chengar stated. However, what purifiers do get is cheaper halberds/hammers. Plus, astral aim coupled with psybolt ammo, and what do you have? A regular strike squad thats hitty and kitted out but cheaper. The teleport homer for 5 points is nice too. Sure this squad can't capture objectives or carry a psycannon without wasting the advantage of it being cheap, but if you've got a grand master and a fair bit of anti-tank already, neither of these should be much of an issue.

 

To me, I wouldn't pay the inflated points cost for a psycannon when all my other infantry units can already pack them for cheaper. I'd only run the above unit with a grandmaster, mostly with the intention of frying light infantry like dark eldar, IG etc, who can usually stay out of sight.

[The Holy Heretic]

I just wouldn't bother.

 

The heavy support slot just carries too much other fun and unique stuff to compete for the place; cheap psyflemen, big ass dreadknights and land raiders, while purgators are just another spin on the power armour guys carrying incinerators or psycannons :)

 

That said, I'd go for 6 man, 4 Incinerators, 2 halberds and a psyback :)

[Malus the Destroyer]

Keep in mind, a 5 man Incinerator squad is CHEAP. Extremely cheap. And doesn't score. Which makes a FANTASTIC disposable suicide unit to counter an assault charge, or steam up a flank, or straight into something.

 

As a disposable counter charge unit, those 4 Incinerators will make people stay back or hesitate. Or turn fire from important stuff into your cheapest fielded unit that is a suicide squad. A Unit doesn't have to kill it's points worth to more than make up for it's points in other ways. And at the end of the day, you couldn't care less if they die. They are a "Damned if you do, damned if you don't' unit to play against. Yes, there will be more threatening targets going against them in the priority, but you can't let those 4 Incinerators have free domain to do as they please either.

 

Look at it this way, the cost is sooooo low it will almost NEVER hurt you to take em. And they force an opponent into hard decisions. In my experience, if a squad just sitting somewhere, by sheer fact of just being on the table causes the enemy to have to make hard decisions, they've done thier job.

 

I personally slap em into a Suicide Raven and do 2 things, chill back to keep enemy at bay, or full steam ahead to give the rest of my army time to set up the firing line. Even at the cost of the Stormraven's points with Hurricane Sponsons, the whole thing is disposable, and greatly valuable.

[Morollan]

I just wouldn't bother.

 

The heavy support slot just carries too much other fun and unique stuff to compete for the place; cheap psyflemen, big ass dreadknights and land raiders, while purgators are just another spin on the power armour guys carrying incinerators or psycannons :)

 

The fact that you can ignore a unit of 5 I6 marines with force weapons and 4 S6 heavy flamers (that can shoot through walls) which only costs 115 points because you have better options really makes me wonder how on earth people still come up with ways to "fix" the GK Codex.

[number6]

I think you need to make the most of Astral Aim, so psycannons all the way. Hide behind their transport and you have a supremely annoying -- and even deadly -- unit that can reach virtually anything on the table. Awesome unit.

 

People focus a lot on psyflemen, but purgators are definitely worth taking. You can suffer the loss of a heavy slot or three to purgators if your build your list right. :D

[Gentlemanloser]

If you want long range, Purgators can't do it. Twin Autocannond Dreads do, and do it cheaper.

 

I'd only consider Purgator if you want the TH and are running a DS orientated GK list, that didn't have access to Mystics.

 

AA shooting through your Razorback is nice, but the 4+ save negates the main reason to use Pyscannons.

 

If you were going to use Purgators at all, I'd to go for the 5 man, 4 Incinerator unit. Cheap as chips, and ultra horde killy. Stick a NDH on the Justicar so you can smack walkers/LR with him.

 

The fact that you can ignore a unit of 5 I6 marines with force weapons and 4 S6 heavy flamers (that can shoot through walls) which only costs 115 points because you have better options really makes me wonder how on earth people still come up with ways to "fix" the GK Codex.

 

It's not 115 points, as you can't have both Halberds and Incinerators.

 

Edit: Oh and the ideal would be to want to use every unit in a codex, and for the units to be internally balanced with each other. Which sadly isn't the case with ours, which is why it could benefit from 'fixes'.

[Morollan]

It's not 115 points, as you can't have both Halberds and Incinerators.

 

Edit: Oh and the ideal would be to want to use every unit in a codex, and for the units to be internally balanced with each other. Which sadly isn't the case with ours, which is why it could benefit from 'fixes'.

 

My bad, I forgot that you give up both storm bolter and NFS. Still see no need for the fixes though. Show me a codex where every unit is viable. It just doesn't happen.

[number6]

AA shooting through your Razorback is nice, but the 4+ save negates the main reason to use Pyscannons.

Meh. Virtually everybody gets a cover save anyway. Almost never are enemy infantry free of cover saves. So the ability to shoot while not being able to be targeted in return is a massive advantage. Drive your ride to the center of the table and you will definitely have access to almost anything. ;)

[Inquisitor Fox]

To sum up...

 

odss of wounding hit w/ psycannon even with 4+ cover save > odds of hitting with any other unit lacking line of sight so being unable to fire

 

ANY positive real number is greater than zero ;) Some opportunity to hit is better than none. Ask a IG player if they'd trade half the autocannons range for the ability to fire on the move and a great number of them would say yes. Ask them if they'd take it if they could fire THROUGH obstacles and still give the other guy a 4+ save and they'll still take it.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about it "denying" rending.

[Chengar Qordath]

Have to agree with others on Astral Aim; losing rending stings a bit, but it's still 2-4 Strength 7 shots per Psycannon.

 

Still see no need for the fixes though. Show me a codex where every unit is viable. It just doesn't happen.

Just because GW never creates a perfectly balanced codex doesn't mean we can't aspire to create better balanced armies. Heck, half the point of homebrewing is to do better than GW.

[Gentlemanloser]

Still see no need for the fixes though. Show me a codex where every unit is viable. It just doesn't happen.

 

Space Wolves? :P

[Mr.darkness]

Still see no need for the fixes though. Show me a codex where every unit is viable. It just doesn't happen.

 

Space Wolves? :P

 

 

I wish.

 

if the fenrisian wolves were any good, i would have an army of them. They are just so cool in the fluff. its just a pity that they didn't make the rules to match.

[arisen]

Allright, so 4 psycannons it is. Thanks to everyone for their insights :P . I really like the prospect of firing from a concealed position without fear of return fire ;)

[Ragnar_Blackmane]

Allright, so 4 psycannons it is. Thanks to everyone for their insights :D . I really like the prospect of firing from a concealed position without fear of return fire :D

Don't. You're paying 220 points for 4 non-relentless Psycannons in a 5 men squad without any upgrades which'll die whenever someone decides to assault them or direct some small arms fire their way. Psycannons only got a 24" range meaning that you'll be dangerously close to the enemy and they'll be in Rapid Fire range sooner than later (unlike Devastators or Long Fangs which get some protection out of the huge distance their weapons can cover). Consider that a Rhino can easily be blown up (nothing to hide behind) and with 24" you just won't be able to simply hide behind a wall in your deployment zone and shoot vehicles to death before they get dangerously close. Also consider that any casualty you take after the first costs you a 40 pts. expensive model. On top of that the unit will be dead whenever someone manages to assault them with anything other than Guardsmen.

 

If you want Psycannons use Purifiers or Twin-AC-Riflemen as alternatives. The former is more point-effective and able to alot of stuff in close combat (halberds + 2 Attacks + Cleansing Flame) and the latter is cheap and gets some protection out of it's armour value and the range of it's weapons.

 

IMO the only way I would play Purgators is 5 dudes with 4 Incinerators and a Rhino for 140 points. They are cheap, expendable, and are devastating to hordes and even Marines (if you manage to hit 6 dudes out of a 10 men squad with each template (easy) 7-8 of them will die thanks to S6 [and that's without taking the Justicar's Storm Bolter into account]!). For another 7 points you'll get a teleport homer and a halberd for the Justicar. That's the cheapest way to get a teleport homer into your army (increasing your overall flexibility) and the halberd will allow you to deal with the 1-2 sorry marines left after the flaming. If I wasn't running 2 Dreadknights and a Riflemen or 3 Riflemen most of the time I would ALWAYS take 'em.

[Inquisitor Fox]

Or you could totally add 6 extra men, psybolt ammunition, and have a really burly firebase with high damage output shooting through cover. You don't really need melee weapon enhancements for this unit, so it stays relatively cheap (as Astral Aim is somewhat built into the cost).

 

One perk of our Codex is if you don't like it, it's easy to turn the unit into Strike Squads and repurpose the models. You don't really lose anything but playtime with them, and that's not a bad thing. Try it out, see what you like. I can definitely see some good points, particularly if you play on terrain heavy boards or a city fight environment and need more ranged support.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

:lol: Oh you guys! 'Take psycannons, bulk out the squad, take psybolts'. Satire at it's finest. I'm in tears.

 

.....oh wait ^_^

 

Purgators are bad. As in 'as poorly thought out and costed as Devastators' bad. In fact, GW outdid themselves in our codex, and put a better choice in Elites. Not like with Sternguard how they get more heavy weapons at better prices, but I mean actually the the EXACT same price but with added abilities and better statline as well. Vis a vis;

 

Flame Knight, 4 x Purifiers, 4 x Purifiers w/psycannons

(280 points)

 

vs

 

Justicar, 4 x Purgators, 4 x Purgators w/psycannons

(280 points)

 

Srsly, just take the Trogdor build;

 

Justicar w/hammer, 4 x Purgators w/incinerators, Rhino

(140 points)

 

It's cheap, it's annoying, and unless you are boring you don't have triple PsyDread. So, you do have that third Heavy slot doing nothing (because the Internet told you DK's suck). Why not burninate? Nobody else is taking them (because we can never have enough psycannon), and that much burny will kill stuff. Just ask Orks, Burna Boyz do very well against Marines with their billion S4 hits they inflict.

[landoro]

I just have to say that i would actually consider psilencers in a Purgator unit, it is still cheap, the 4+ save dont matter much since they have no AP and you get a lot of shots, just for the pschological effect with 26 shots from 5 men.

Ok i am not really serious, I dont like psilencers but IF I was going to take them I would do it in a Puragator squad.

And just as someone said, you get exactly the same thing from Purifiers except you have to take a full 10 man unit to get 4 heavy weapons.

Have fun

landoro

[number6]

Purgators are bad. As in 'as poorly thought out and costed as Devastators' bad.

Devastators are "bad"? ;)

We live in different universes! :D

[Chengar Qordath]

Purgators are bad. As in 'as poorly thought out and costed as Devastators' bad.

Devastators are "bad"? :D

We live in different universes! :drool:

Not bad per se, but most folks think they're a bit overpriced for what they can do, especially in the older Marine Codices (though GW might be planning to correct this in future books, since Blood Angels and Space Wolves pay less for some of their heavy weapons).

[number6]

Not bad per se, but most folks think they're a bit overpriced for what they can do, especially in the older Marine Codices (though GW might be planning to correct this in future books, since Blood Angels and Space Wolves pay less for some of their heavy weapons).

Let us agree that the SW's have an absurdly good bargain on their "devastators" :P , but the other 5e Marine codexes (I don't know anybody trying to play with DA or BT these days) can make excellent use of Devs. They're worthy units worth their points (in the right army list, of course, and as always).

[the jeske]

if something isnt undercosted then at this point of 5th ed it is not good.

[RolandTHTG]

Purgators are bad. As in 'as poorly thought out and costed as Devastators' bad. In fact, GW outdid themselves in our codex, and put a better choice in Elites. Not like with Sternguard how they get more heavy weapons at better prices, but I mean actually the the EXACT same price but with added abilities and better statline as well. Vis a vis;

 

Flame Knight, 4 x Purifiers, 4 x Purifiers w/psycannons

(280 points)

 

vs

 

Justicar, 4 x Purgators, 4 x Purgators w/psycannons

(280 points)

 

Except you need to buy the full squad in order to get 4 purfiers w/ Heavy Weapons.

 

10 Purifiers, 4 psycannons = 280 pts

 

the build I run

6 purgators, 4 psycannons, 200 pts.

My army doesn't have the 80 pts to spare, and the purifiers don't work with the Theme I have. Instead the squad is placed partially to the side, where anything coming down the center or their flank gets lit up. Single turn kills (including some on the move) Nurgle Deamon Prince, Storm Raven from behind a building, Landraider, 3man paladin squad, BA honour guard.

I'm quite happy with the results, and plan on taking them in my future lists.