Tybrus Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Hello again, I have not been playing much over the last two years, but in the last two weeks I have been able to get in a couple of games. Durning these games I had a question come up that we could agree on an answer for the table, but we wanted to know more official rulings for tournaments. So I will list the questions by number. 1) I have a couple of the new drop pod plastic kits put together. However, as I play a number of armies they are not painted, and have all the center "Workings" removed. I use these mostly for dreadnoughts in my fist army. That said the question is this. Would pods built this way be allowed in the tournament, for landing Dreadnoughts, and for landing troops? 2) Would it be allowed to land a squad in a pod built like this? 3) When playing with the pod is the "Legal" way to have the doors up or down? 4) Is a pod is built this way (say its a Dread pod), and you play doors down, can you draw line of site through the open part of the pod? 5) If you land a normal drop pod, and you play doors down, can you use those same doors for cover? 6) If you play doors uo can a squad "hide" behind the pod to gain "full" cover of not being seen. 7) If you play doors down and the pod has the middle can you draw line of sight through the pod then? If you have an opinion please state "In my Opinion" if you can point to a rule please cite it for reference. ( Such as (Newest Space Wolf Codex pg. 16) ) Also if you are citing the main rules list the page. I am hoping this can be a one shop stop on drop pod questions. If you have questions of your own, please ask as well, I will move a copy to the top of this tread with my own questions to keep it current. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Willy Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I don't see why building it a different way would prevent you from using it in a tourny and I think the doors down is kind of part of the aesthetic of the drop pod. As for line of sight, true line of sight logic would say yes you do gain cover for being hidden behind closed doors drop pod in fact if they can't see the squad at all then they can't even shoot at the unit and then the doors open would say your shooting through an enemy unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3022209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicorex Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 1) either way is fine 2)Yes 3) It dosent really matter, you can play it both ways 4)Yes 5)yes 6)No. DP's imediatly open and deploy the unit inside upon landing. Just because you built your DP with the doors glued shut for conveinence dosent mean that dosesnt happen. If the doors didnt open your unit would be trapped inside, sortof a waste of the unit. So if I am shooting your guys from the other side of the DP, you would get cover. Then when you shoot back at me, I would get cover. 7)yes, since 40k now uses true line of sight, as long as I can see some of the body of your mini I can shoot at it. If that veiw of the body is obscured you would get cover. All these rules are found in the BrB and your codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3022210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Some notes: 6. If you want that cover from that door, than youre opponent gets it as well from that unit thats sitting behind that door, and can target that said door, be aware of this. Vindicators just love that target. 7. Unless you have a Forgeworld droppod you cant shoot though it, those are close on the inside. (bar the Dreadnought droppod) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3022557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 7. True LoS Spacefrisian, you can shoot at anything provided you can see it (obviously guns don't count etc). There will obviously be a cover save though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3022831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I think that was a typo, given the context. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3022860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 7. True LoS Spacefrisian, you can shoot at anything provided you can see it (obviously guns don't count etc). There will obviously be a cover save though. http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-HZLorI1B0w/SxwVQ5jehNI/AAAAAAAAJ38/BBdUajFZ3m0/Forge%20World%20drop%20pod%20base%20colors.jpg Nope you cant draw true line of sight trough these. And yes they are official ones, made by forgeworld when GW didnt had them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3022919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Well that's just cheating :P. My bad though, thought you meant the Lucius Pattern Drop Pods and you can't normally see through GW ones because of the little cylinder, my mistake. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3023020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Cheating.... :P I call it legal tatcics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3023174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 As I mentioned briefly in the other thread, those DP are no longer the 'current' mini for them, and if you're playing in a tournament, it would probably be best to ask the TO if they allow FW minis. They might disallow those DP purely becuase they're FW and not GW. :/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3023185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 FW is part of GW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3023200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Since when did TOs listen to reason? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3023218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 FW is part of GW. And most (all?) Tournaments disallow FW minis, don't they? Otherwise, I'd expect to see tihngs like Lucious Drop Pods used! :wacko: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3023223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Most tourneys i attend have that great unlcean one from fw running around, guess its not an isseu if i take fw pods. (besides that i used them in the past) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3023227 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 It does take a rather unpleasant TO to ban every single official model that's not the most recent version of the model put out by GW. Models are expensive, and not everyone can afford to spend a big chunk of cash just to change out their current drop pods for other, almost identical, drop pods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3023291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 FW pods are more expensive than gw ones. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3023313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 FW pods are more expensive than gw ones. True, but buying new GW pods is more expensive than using FW pods you already own. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3023334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Stacius Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Lol wouldn't bother me being unable to draw line through a pod. Normally I can't anyway or I'm blowing up the pod. But I can't see any rules reason why you cannot use a forge world drop pod. Otherwise it could get called when any alternate turret razor is used or land raider. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3023443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 6)No. DP's imediatly open and deploy the unit inside upon landing. Just because you built your DP with the doors glued shut for conveinence dosent mean that dosesnt happen. If the doors didnt open your unit would be trapped inside, sortof a waste of the unit. Are squads stuck in Rhinos when you don't open those doors? What about Land Raiders, or Falcons, or any other transport in the game? The rules in the BRB say that to disembark any unit from any transport, you simply deploy each model within 2" of an access point, or within 2" of any part of the vehicle's hull if it is open-topped, which a Drop Pod is. Nowhere in the rules for vehicles in the BRB will you find a direction to open and/or close doors, hatches, or ramps. Since there is nothing in the rules in the transport section of the BRB, you can now check the Drop Pod entry in your code . In the Codex Space Marines, there is a bit about "hatches being blown". If you Interpret that as fluff, then it also has no bearing on how you play. If you think that is part of the rules, then proceed to "blow your hatches" when you land. However, the Drop Pod entry in Codex Space Wolves doesn't say anything about blowing hatches, so when you play Wolves you are certainly free to leave your hatches closed (or indeed, glued shut) if you wish, and still can deploy your unit as described in the rules. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3023563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 V, check the other thread. ;) (IIRC official GW modelling instructions tell you not to glue the doors shut. You can, and no one I think would have issue with it, as long as you play them as if the doors were open the the DP doesn't block LoS... Trying to claim that gluing your DP shut now makes it block LoS is modelling for an advantage) Otherwise it could get called when any alternate turret razor is used or land raider. Do GW make those turrets? If not, fair game, as there's no GW version of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3023576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 V, check the other thread. ;) (IIRC official GW modelling instructions tell you not to glue the doors shut. You can, and no one I think would have issue with it, as long as you play them as if the doors were open the the DP doesn't block LoS... Trying to claim that gluing your DP shut now makes it block LoS is modelling for an advantage) Hi GL, just noticed and went through that other thread, which is one of several dozen in the OR on the same subject. Regardless, I believe my post remains valid. First, modelling instructions are not, and never have been, a part of the rules; they are suggestions for new modellers on how to put stuff together, and nothing more. Second, choosing to keep a pod glued shut isn't modelling for advantage, because the implications work both ways: I can deploy a unit on the far side of a Pod and hide out of LOS, but I can't shoot you either, it works both ways. I just wanted to point out the fallacy that is the assertion that the rules say you have to lower the hatches/petals. In the real world, I've got knock-off pods from way before the GW plastics were released. For pickup games, I just show them to the opponent and explain how I usually play them, then ask him if he has a problem with that. I use the same process as I do for going through the effects of all of the terrain pieces. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3023587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Willy Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 TOs normally disallow the rules on FW minis but if it is used with the GW rules then they usually allow it, at least the few tournys i ve been to a like that. As for modelling to an advantage the pod doors would be one different people will interpret differently, Some might agree no advantge is gained because it blocks both units los and stops both from shooting, others will argue that still allows you to target other units while protecting you from an assault, so the doors should be open. To be honest I always blow the Pod up before hand, easy kill point or just to blow something up, then kill whats behind it, but i think the doors should be open purely because thats how they are intended to be played, same is said for raider assault ramps and rhino/razor back doors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3023623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Second, choosing to keep a pod glued shut isn't modelling for advantage It is, becuase it changes the useage and roll of the unit. Even if you downplay the build instructions from GW into an unofficial guidline, GW guide you to leave them unglued, becuase thier vision is for the doors to open. As they open, you can shoot through them. The Pod doesn't block LoS, but as usual would grant a cover save. If you choose to rule your DPs block LoS, you can now use these as pillar drops to strategically block massive amounts of fireing lines and LoS. DPs *shouldn't* be able to achive this, and doing so is modelling them to an advantage. As I said in the other threads, by all means, glue them shut for any number of reasons. Ease of transport, asthetic appeal, whatever. But play them and rule them, as if they work as GW 'advise' and have designed the mini to work. By allowing you LoS through them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3023640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tybrus Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 Then how about not putting the "guts" seats and post into the pod? If you left it open like a dread drop pod you would have clear LOS through it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3023690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Willy Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 You d still get a cover save for shooting through another unit i think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249516-drop-pods/#findComment-3023711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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