Long range Rhino bunkers

[DerekLee688]

As it's been said AV11 isn't that good of a bunker. So, the lasscannon in tac squad should be seen as a reusable HK for that unit for when it's not moving forward to deliver the anti infantry contents. Maybe they won't be needed until the rest of your army has weakened the enemy first, or you pic the objective they need to take/sit on.

 

However, I point out one of the greatest AT options tac. squads have isn't the cheap lasscannon but the krak grenades every marine has. That leman russ/rifleman/etc. will out shoot the "bunker" anyday. Against a parking lot you got to rush forward, pop smoke, and get those grenades into tail pipes. Remember, multiple-assault!

[Ming]

Long range rhino bunkers can be good...as stated above, they sit and shoot till about turn 3 before they run off to capture late game objectives / missions. If your local environment is short on terrain, the rhino becomes your terrain. My local environment has good terrain, but recently seen expansion in use of AP3 S8 large blast use...having a Rhino can help that squad last.

 

The bigger issue is how disappointed you can get rolling a single dice (for the lascannon or whatever)...and seemingly how often that unit will disappoint you with not taking down an enemy AFV. Psychologically you get better satisfaction from twin linked weapons...

[DarkGuard]

Long range rhino bunkers can be good...as stated above, they sit and shoot till about turn 3 before they run off to capture late game objectives / missions.

 

That's if they aren't stun-locked, destroyed, crippled in some way during the game. That was the main point of my article, stun-lock does Rhino bunkers no favours. If you're just going to sit back and shoot why not get a Pred? Or pay more points for a las/plas Razorback to get more heavy weapons.

[Warprat]

Long range rhino bunkers can be good...as stated above, they sit and shoot till about turn 3 before they run off to capture late game objectives / missions.

 

That's if they aren't stun-locked, destroyed, crippled in some way during the game. That was the main point of my article, stun-lock does Rhino bunkers no favours. If you're just going to sit back and shoot why not get a Pred? Or pay more points for a las/plas Razorback to get more heavy weapons.

 

 

Agreed, it makes no sense to use Rhino bunkers all the time. If you have to use them all the time like that, then your army list needs to change. But it does make sense to use Rhino bunkers occasionally, in unusual situations. A tool in your bag of tricks that should only need to be pulled out every once in a while...

[DerekLee688]

Long range rhino bunkers can be good...as stated above, they sit and shoot till about turn 3 before they run off to capture late game objectives / missions.

 

That's if they aren't stun-locked, destroyed, crippled in some way during the game. That was the main point of my article, stun-lock does Rhino bunkers no favours. If you're just going to sit back and shoot why not get a Pred? Or pay more points for a las/plas Razorback to get more heavy weapons.

 

 

Agreed, it makes no sense to use Rhino bunkers all the time. If you have to use them all the time like that, then your army list needs to change. But it does make sense to use Rhino bunkers occasionally, in unusual situations. A tool in your bag of tricks that should only need to be pulled out every once in a while...

 

The only reason I would sit and fire is if it's too dangerous to drop my troops. It's not a 215pt. bunker, as much as a 10pt. option to a tac squad in transit. Yes you can take a pred to fire more in those turns but you don't know when those turns will come, and a pred still can't take an objective. We aren't talking about just an extra heavy option. A "tac rhino bunker" is a 10pt. option that adds versitility to a troop unit.

 

Devestators are different. Rhino's are more like extra terrain on a barren board. Otherwise the devestators would be in the terrain. The turn limit built into the game and the "mobility" a rhino gives a devestator squad isn't worth moving them around. Dev's are ment to castle up and control firing lanes. I'm better off using typhoons for mobile heavy weapons, or a pred for a "bunker". Pred is better off as a bunker anyway because of how few weapons it fires on the move.

[Ming]

Derek is "spot-on" so to speak. I pretty much do the same (see my blog and batreps...). Currently I have 2 combat squads in las-plas razors, one full squad in a rhino...the rhino squad seems to get nerfed the quickest, gets dismounted (wrecked), then often pinned in the wreckage...eventually running off somewhere to get assaulted and wiped out. Al the while the razorback squads move forward and get their job accomplished...assisting in an assault, shooting up deathstars, playing bodyguard for the captain, etc. At least that is the way it seems.

 

Instead of ML devs (150 pts-ish plus say a rhino for 185) I use a LS typhoon squadron (180-ish for 2), which gives me the same number of MLs, but adds 6 HB shots. These two units are nearly identical in price, can only engage a single unit at a time, one is more fragile, the other is less mobile. At that point it depends on your tactical uses...

 

Any decision I make in selecting a unit in list building goes against four basic metrics: (1) does it boost the overall power of my list?; (2) can it eliminate MEQs?; (3) can it penetrate AV11; and (4) is it Mobil?. The unit has to hit as many of these points as possible.

 

I watched a blood angels mech vs IG mech game a few nights ago, and mirthfully watched the vehicles throwing single dice (lascannons) at each other seeing how much luck it takes for a simple (single) lascannon to wreck AV11-AV12.

[facmanpob]

Last game I played I had a tactical squad with combi-flamer, flamer and lascannon, combat squadded with the asault half riding in a Lasplas RB. The lascannon combat squad deployed on the top floor of a building and the RB deployed next to it, with the mobile combat squad poised to dart forward to challenge for the midfield objective late game. My "bunker", however, came from the fact that the RB was deployed behind cover which did not affect LOS, and next door I parked a Plasma Dreadnought with a Typhoon behind it shooting over the top - total points cost for that group.....under 500 points.

 

So for the entire game I had 2 lascannons, a plasma cannon and Typhoon missile launcher dominating the left flank......funnily enough my opponent did not advance very far on that side! :)

 

But the best thing was that there were so many different targets for him to chase after on that flank, that by the end of the game I had lost 1 marine (Turn 2), the plasma guns off the RB (Turn 3), and the Typhoon had been immobilised (Turn 4) then wrecked (Turn 5). The lascannons kept firing, the PLasma Dread didn't get touched and the RB delivered its cargo (albeit 1 turn too late, but that was my fault for rolling a crap difficult terrain roll on the last turn! :) )

 

for me, a bunker is created by numerous factors, and is definitely not just about sticking some guys in a Rhino! :)

[DarkGuard]

for me, a bunker is created by numerous factors, and is definitely not just about sticking some guys in a Rhino! :P

 

For the purposes of this discussion though, as indicated earlier, a bunker is the use of a squad firing a heavy weapon out of a Rhino top hatch, using the Rhino as little more than hiding the squad in to be protected. Your use of the Tactical squad and the Razorback is anti-bunker here, as there's not use of top hatch. Why did you use the Razorback? For the extra heavy? Or because you didn't want to get your unit stunned or shaken while in it? Those are all reasons to think about.

[facmanpob]

for me, a bunker is created by numerous factors, and is definitely not just about sticking some guys in a Rhino! :)

 

For the purposes of this discussion though, as indicated earlier, a bunker is the use of a squad firing a heavy weapon out of a Rhino top hatch, using the Rhino as little more than hiding the squad in to be protected. Your use of the Tactical squad and the Razorback is anti-bunker here, as there's not use of top hatch. Why did you use the Razorback? For the extra heavy? Or because you didn't want to get your unit stunned or shaken while in it? Those are all reasons to think about.

Good point, I was ignoring the terms of the OP somewhat. My apologies for that! :huh:

 

In answer to your questions, I have used Rhino bunkers before, and regularly found myself hesitant to use the mobility of the Rhino for fear of not being able to shoot the heavy.....essentially I can't get past the desire to stop and shoot the big shooty weapon at the bad guy! Stun-locking is part and parcel of using vehicles and is not something that I get too worked up about. I decided to try the RB out as it ticked a few boxes......extra heavy weapon, protection and mobility for my marines, and most importantly freed up the squad heavy weapon to sit in cover and shoot every turn. I found that I enjoyed the extra freedom of movement it gave me, and I didn't really miss the extra points elsewhere in my list!

 

So, in essence, I am currently an anti-bunkerist! :)

[DarkGuard]

Good to have you on the team. :D

 

I find I'm the opposite to you with the Rhinos and heavy weapons, I feel bad when not using their mobility. Normally the only Rhino I might not move first turn is my Honour Guard Rhino so I can use Orbital Bombardment, and I feel bad not moving that. It just appears to me that if I have a Rhino I should be using its mobility when I can. Of course, sometimes the situation demands using the heavy, but not all the time I feel.

 

I've quite enjoyed using my las/plas Razorback though, and have got great use out of it recently with a las/plas squad. Like you said it gives you a ton of weapons and ensures you heavy weapon keeps firing, not a bad trade off.

[Ran]

To me the Heavy option on Tacs is more of a small perk than a feature to specifically build around; I'd certainly never pay for it. Yes the tactical options of a LC are nice but the ML provides the same range (for free) while those intending to always rush their Tacs midfield might just as well take the MM (for free).

 

Of course this is coming from a guy who's never fired a Heavy from a Rhino hatch (dual special drive-bys, sure though)

[facmanpob]

I find I'm the opposite to you with the Rhinos and heavy weapons, I feel bad when not using their mobility. Normally the only Rhino I might not move first turn is my Honour Guard Rhino so I can use Orbital Bombardment, and I feel bad not moving that. It just appears to me that if I have a Rhino I should be using its mobility when I can. Of course, sometimes the situation demands using the heavy, but not all the time I feel.

 

Its funny how two completely different viewpoints lead to the same conclusion! :rolleyes:

 

I think the only squad heavy weapon that I can see myself using in a Rhino in the future is a multi-melta, simply because its short range demands the use of the mobility of the vehicle.....unless 6th Ed changes something of course!