MaveriK Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 How much do you think the culture, superstitions and primal/savage nature of the tribes have changed, if any since the days of Kasper Hawser crashed on Fenris? Fenris has seen two great invasions since Leman Russ disappeared. The first battle of the Fang, Thousand Sons - revenge for the attack and destruction of Prospero. The second Battle of the Fang, Plague of Unbelief - last planet attacked by Cardinal Bucharis in his conquest of a minor empire. Now we know that the role of the sixth legion eventually changed into the chapter we know today. More so since the first battle of Armageddon. But what I want to know from your own perspectives is, has any changed in the life of a comman Fenris born? I ask this only to see what everyone else has to say about our beloved chapter. How did we go from primal, superstitious executioners to brawling, drinking barbarians in space. Has time tamed the tribes? are we as dark and grim as we once were during the time of our once legion? or did the wolves of Russ lose a part of themselves along the way since his disappearance? discuss away! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Well, i personally believe that among the people of Fenris, life is still largely the same. the fear/awe of the sky warriors is ever present in both time lines, and if anything, probably stronger than it was previously because the native Fenrisian have seen their gods repel two people sets of outsiders. Nothing to enhance religious faith than actual proof of your gods kicking ass. i would not say that time has tamed the tribes of fenris, but rather chaged their roles. in the time of the great crusade, the legions of man didnt know of any threat larger than themselves, so some of them were elevated to become a larger threat. a weapon so terrible that their deployment would often be enough to cow down any hint of rebellion. then the heresy came, and the legion of man learned that there was great evil out there. we werent the biggest fish in the pond anymore, and had to change how we did things. at this point the Wolves are beginning their transition into what they will become. This new imperium isnt the imperium the emperor planned for, but its all humanity has got. The Wolves change is to protect what they can of the emperor's imperium, because so many of his servants have turned their back on that goal. What was supposed to be a Imperium of Mankind is now a Imperium of a select few with power. The Wolves transition is to protect those that represent the old way of the Imperium, which has been left behind. On the brawling drinking aspect, all i can say to that is the image of the Wolves has been changing for years nowin fluff, ever so slightly, but King books and the recent additions are the Wolves being marketed to different audiences. They dont mesh well because they were never meant to.I do know that A D-B upcoming grey knight book (the Emperor's Gift) is going to have the First War of Armageddon in it, so i believe we'll see a mesh of the two Wolf images there. And looking at his work, for the better. so, to end my rambling, we havent lost ourselves, but we have changed alongside the galaxy at large. We are more heroic now because the galaxy is much darker now, and in need of heroes. Without heroes the light of humanity will be snuffed out, the Emperor's dream will be ended. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3023548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 Well said wolf brother! your ramblings no matter how great or small have always been insightful for many on here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3023562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonSTeR Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 How much do you think the culture, superstitions and primal/savage nature of the tribes have changed, if any since the days of Kasper Hawser crashed on Fenris? Fenris has seen two great invasions since Leman Russ disappeared. The first battle of the Fang, Thousand Sons - revenge for the attack and destruction of Prospero. The second Battle of the Fang, Plague of Unbelief - last planet attacked by Cardinal Bucharis in his conquest of a minor empire. Now we know that the role of the sixth legion eventually changed into the chapter we know today. More so since the first battle of Armageddon. But what I want to know from your own perspectives is, has any changed in the life of a comman Fenris born? I ask this only to see what everyone else has to say about our beloved chapter. How did we go from primal, superstitious executioners to brawling, drinking barbarians in space. Has time tamed the tribes? are we as dark and grim as we once were during the time of our once legion? or did the wolves of Russ lose a part of themselves along the way since his disappearance? discuss away! AMAZING question!!! OK for those that don't recall, i've been a SW player since the first edition, I'm not on about the transition to 2nd edition, I'm talking Bob Naismith marines :D The "superstitious executioners in space" is far closer to the way that all marines were initially portrayed and along the way the SW became slightly camp, self parodies of what they should have been. I think the "drinking barbarians in space" thing is probably overdone, to separate each chapter from the next, like the "Secretive Space vampires" think the Blood Angels have going on. I don't think it "actually" is supposed to have been portrayed that there has been this evolution, just a difference in writing style from book to book, and different marketing pitches at different demographics so to a vast extent I would sugest that I agree with WLK. Those folks who liken the whole chapter to comic book Dwarf Troll slayers in space can do so, those who prefer the role of the 6th as the Imperium's "ultimate sanction" can enjoy that more mature aspect of the hobby. As for 10,000 years of static society on Fenris, that's another matter that I just don't "get" in all seriousness, however I bet it's hard to advance technologically when ever couple of years the topography of the whole planet changes :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3023573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I would just like to add, that if you just pickup the 5th Edition codex, and read through it, I don't think you'll find much fluff that lends itself to the "drunk, brawling, barbarians in space" imagery. I think that happens more here in the Fang, and was perhaps portrayed that way in older BL books. However, going strictly with Studio fluff, that motif is really an urban legend, because when you look for it, it really isn't there (except for Lukas, but I hate that character, and want to kick Phil Kelly in the jewels for adding that disaster). Valerian Edit: As for the Fenrisians themselves, I'd say the daily fight for survival on one of the most reknown death worlds in the Imperium has prevented the tribal societies from progressing too much. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3023589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverik_girl Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I would just like to add, that if you just pickup the 5th Edition codex, and read through it, I don't think you'll find much fluff that lends itself to the "drunk, brawling, barbarians in space" imagery. I think that happens more here in the Fang, and was perhaps portrayed that way in older BL books. However, going strictly with Studio fluff, that motif is really an urban legend, because when you look for it, it really isn't there (except for Lukas, but I hate that character, and want to kick Phil Kelly in the jewels for adding that disaster). Valerian except on pg 21 of the codex, it's not much but.. "Fenris breeds heroes like a bar breeds drunks - loud, proud and spoiling for a fight." - Grand Master Belial of the Dark Angels Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3023597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I would just like to add, that if you just pickup the 5th Edition codex, and read through it, I don't think you'll find much fluff that lends itself to the "drunk, brawling, barbarians in space" imagery. I think that happens more here in the Fang, and was perhaps portrayed that way in older BL books. However, going strictly with Studio fluff, that motif is really an urban legend, because when you look for it, it really isn't there (except for Lukas, but I hate that character, and want to kick Phil Kelly in the jewels for adding that disaster). Valerian except on pg 21 of the codex, it's not much but.. "Fenris breeds heroes like a bar breeds drunks - loud, proud and spoiling for a fight." - Grand Master Belial of the Dark Angels true but that is the way they want to be perceived. It adds to the sense of triumph when glory is achieved and to an extent gives hope that if the "barbaric drunks" can change the galaxy, it may be possible for others to do so as well. Something that i don't think has really be touched on in the Battle of the Fang is that i highly doubt that the invaders left the people of Fenris alone while they were besieging the Aett. In"Battle of the fang " i even vaguely remembering one of the thousand sons saying they wanted to leave Fenris a broken and lifeless place. The mortals of Fenris still look to the sky warriors for protection but they would have seen the Assault on the Aett and felt the power of the invaders. Their lives might have become far tougher since then and the struggles would have increased dramatically. Tribal wars would still be a prevalent part of how things occur due the shortage of resources. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3023606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I would just like to add, that if you just pickup the 5th Edition codex, and read through it, I don't think you'll find much fluff that lends itself to the "drunk, brawling, barbarians in space" imagery. I think that happens more here in the Fang, and was perhaps portrayed that way in older BL books. However, going strictly with Studio fluff, that motif is really an urban legend, because when you look for it, it really isn't there (except for Lukas, but I hate that character, and want to kick Phil Kelly in the jewels for adding that disaster). Valerian except on pg 21 of the codex, it's not much but.. "Fenris breeds heroes like a bar breeds drunks - loud, proud and spoiling for a fight." - Grand Master Belial of the Dark Angels But, "loud, proud, and spoiling for a fight" isn't the same as being rowdy, drunken, brawling, barbarians; additionally, although Belial mentions drunks in a bar, he isn't calling the Wolves drunks, but rather that Fenris is a breeding ground for heroes. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3023609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassill Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Life on Fenris? Still the same in my opinion. You live day to day as a survival. You're aren't worried about the people on the far side of the planet, or those a galaxy away. You worry about your family, and your tribe, and how you can help them live another day. All while staying alive yourself, fighting off some of the most fearsome of animals and natural causes, and of course, a raiding neighbor tribe. Only the toughest can survive in such a place. And, with that much on their plates every day, I don't think it leaves much time for improving age old methods (ie, technological advance and such). An axe is an axe, a roof is a roof, and food on the table means survival for another day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3023641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I would just like to add, that if you just pickup the 5th Edition codex, and read through it, I don't think you'll find much fluff that lends itself to the "drunk, brawling, barbarians in space" imagery. I think that happens more here in the Fang, and was perhaps portrayed that way in older BL books. However, going strictly with Studio fluff, that motif is really an urban legend, because when you look for it, it really isn't there (except for Lukas, but I hate that character, and want to kick Phil Kelly in the jewels for adding that disaster). Valerian except on pg 21 of the codex, it's not much but.. "Fenris breeds heroes like a bar breeds drunks - loud, proud and spoiling for a fight." - Grand Master Belial of the Dark Angels But, "loud, proud, and spoiling for a fight" isn't the same as being rowdy, drunken, brawling, barbarians; additionally, although Belial mentions drunks in a bar, he isn't calling the Wolves drunks, but rather that Fenris is a breeding ground for heroes. V Not to mention this is a perception of a Dark Angel, whom Wolves already are on bad terms with, so the image may be skewed, tainted, intentionally derogatory, etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3023642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Life on Fenris is the same as it always has been, just as Russ intended. I forget which of the current three novels says it, but Russ was against the terraforming of Fenris when he was reunited with his Legion and the Aett was built. He wanted to keep the people of Fenris exactly where they were so as to have that as his recruiting pool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3023669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewi Sant Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Situation no change as far as i'm concerned. A death world doesn't become more inhabitable as time passed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3023719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Situation no change as far as i'm concerned. A death world doesn't become more inhabitable as time passed. I'm gunna have to disagree. Even though Russ and future Wolf leaders to come would likely curb or adjust evolution over time, not to mention Fenris itself with all the shifting seasons. However, if our own human evolution can lay testament, we've gone from the Stone Age to present day in roughly 12,000 years, as well as the digital age only began about 50-60 years ago, I have to wonder if we're selling Fenrisians short. We also have to consider that along with the Sky Warriors hinderences, they also would alter evolution in unseen ways with their meddling as evidenced by the first Ragnar book, where they went to the isles of iron to trade for metal blades. Runic prophesy and psychic divination, passed down tactical knowledge and warfare strategies, even evolution in flora & fauna on Fenris could potentially influence the strength or durability of weapons, armor, shelter, even household items. I personally think the only things that have not changed in 10,000 years would be the harsh environs and the necessity to survive them, lending to a peoples that must be as resourceful as MacGyver to thrive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3023729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Situation no change as far as i'm concerned. A death world doesn't become more inhabitable as time passed. I'm gunna have to disagree. Even though Russ and future Wolf leaders to come would likely curb or adjust evolution over time, not to mention Fenris itself with all the shifting seasons. However, if our own human evolution can lay testament, we've gone from the Stone Age to present day in roughly 12,000 years, as well as the digital age only began about 50-60 years ago, I have to wonder if we're selling Fenrisians short. We also have to consider that along with the Sky Warriors hinderences, they also would alter evolution in unseen ways with their meddling as evidenced by the first Ragnar book, where they went to the isles of iron to trade for metal blades. Runic prophesy and psychic divination, passed down tactical knowledge and warfare strategies, even evolution in flora & fauna on Fenris could potentially influence the strength or durability of weapons, armor, shelter, even household items. I personally think the only things that have not changed in 10,000 years would be the harsh environs and the necessity to survive them, lending to a peoples that must be as resourceful as MacGyver to thrive. Make our planet an ever changing environment hell bent on our extinction while being kept from making any technological leaps to make said life in said environment easier by a superior "race", we would not be where we are now in terms of technological evolution. Even taking into account the Ragnar series, the Isle of Iron would be no different then the humans serving in the Aett now or even the backstory behind Arjac. There are Fenrisians that the Wolves have allowed privy to the Wolves and technology, however the vast majority of the population of Fenris is not only left to deal with the harshness of Fenris, but intentionally curbed to allow for the type of warriors Russ wanted to be made into Wolves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3024469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buliwyf Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Given that there are no wolves on Fenris... One question I'd have is: how many wolves are there on Fenris? After 10,000 years, does nature run it's course, and as food supplies wax and wane, so do these predators, or are they made of heartier (warp-ridden?) stuff? I read today that our chance for mutation is 75% - the Highest of all chapters. After 10k years of "recruitment," how does that affect the Fenrisian landscape? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3027072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Not sure where you got the 75% mutation rate, but the Canis Helix is supposed to be the most deadliest of geneseed. Like any ecosystem, things live and things die. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3027092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buliwyf Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/6/6a/Geneseed_mutation_DWRB.jpg Found this in the Lexicanum article under "geneseed." Though I stand corrected: We're second to the Salamanders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3027119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 No doubt written by some inquisitor. There might be a 75% chance of changing to a wulfen if your not a true fenrisisan Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3027150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I believe the mutation is the elongated fangs, early greying of hair, and more body hair....with the occasional motw. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3027190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Yeah if you look at it that way, than salamanders is logical 90% as they turn black with glowing eye's Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3027225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/6/6a/Geneseed_mutation_DWRB.jpg Found this in the Lexicanum article under "geneseed." Though I stand corrected: We're second to the Salamanders. Is the source of that GW? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3027279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/6/6a/Geneseed_mutation_DWRB.jpg Found this in the Lexicanum article under "geneseed." Though I stand corrected: We're second to the Salamanders. Is the source of that GW? Its from Deathwatch - rites of battle page 20. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3027287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buliwyf Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Point is: You don't think there'd be more Wolves on Fenris 10,000 years after Leman Russ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3027539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmurph Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 The wolves are a predator. As such their number wax and wane with their prey. But they are a canny and versatile predator, much like the Fenrisians themselves. Given that GW seems to keep all of its setting in a perpetual state, I would say everything on Fenris, including its wolves, is about the same as ever. As to the drunken, brawling barbarian imagery, keep in mind that the perceptions of those outside of Fenris are probably much different than those of the inside. Think of our image of a Viking- yet they were far flung explorers, traders, and writers of literature and song. And no horned helmets :lol: Same for the Space Wolves- they are genetically engineered super soldiers with greatly enhanced senses from deathworld warrior tribes. Honor and glory would be more than mere ideas to them but guiding principles of life. But facing death and the bleakest horrors of an uncaring universe can also teach an appreciation for humanity and the bright spots of life. So the Space Wolves fight and die, but it is also because they live and love. Their appreciation for humanity and all of its base desires- food, drink, the companionship of their friends is a tether to humanity and that which is good in life. The Emperor knew this- even in death he protects mankind. They tell the tales of great heroes and battles to remember the past and guide them in the future. What is the alternative? To live a bleak existence separated from all joy and disdainful of human value? What matters then? Death? Victory? Nothing? It starts to sound an awful lot like the life of the Chaos marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3027612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel23 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I would just like to add, that if you just pickup the 5th Edition codex, and read through it, I don't think you'll find much fluff that lends itself to the "drunk, brawling, barbarians in space" imagery. I think that happens more here in the Fang, and was perhaps portrayed that way in older BL books. However, going strictly with Studio fluff, that motif is really an urban legend, because when you look for it, it really isn't there (except for Lukas, but I hate that character, and want to kick Phil Kelly in the jewels for adding that disaster). Valerian except on pg 21 of the codex, it's not much but.. "Fenris breeds heroes like a bar breeds drunks - loud, proud and spoiling for a fight." - Grand Master Belial of the Dark Angels Really? Its the Dark Angels. They should neither be trusted nor taken seriously. I'm of the opinion that its about the same. Its to those outside of the Aett that see us the way WE want them too. Life for the natives is as hard as it has always been. They fight, they servive and they breed the best warriors in the Imperium. As for the wolves, there are no wolves on Fenris. However, only by knowing what the state of the native prey species is can we figure that out. :D) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249609-fenris-from-30k-to-40k/#findComment-3027835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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