RagingGriffon Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Sorry, I've been gone for quite some time. I read in the newest White Dwarf about the fallen Space Wolf and a Great Wolf was dispatched to kill him. The model looked great (He had the Khorne symbol and everything!). So, has the Space Wolf community finally given into the fact that their brethren can indeed be turned to Chaos? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I'm sorry, but nobody is here to answer your trolling right now, please leave a message after the tone.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3023964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Sorry, I've been gone for quite some time. I read in the newest White Dwarf about the fallen Space Wolf and a Great Wolf was dispatched to kill him. The model looked great (He had the Khorne symbol and everything!). So, has the Space Wolf community finally given into the fact that their brethren can indeed be turned to Chaos? Probably is trolling, but I can handle it. I haven't seen the new WD (or indeed any WD in a while), but I don't think too many in the community would argue that Space Wolves can't fall/turn to Chaos. The Canis Helix just makes us resistant to it, and to the mutating influence of the Warp. It is fairly well established fluff that only the Grey Knights have never had a member turn from the Emperor. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3023978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Page 24 of the Chaos Space Marine codex shows armour patterns of Skyrar's Dark Wolves, as well as a detailed batrep of a group of Wolves joining Huron's Red Corsairs on 58-59... So it is possible, we just don't talk about it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3024007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGriffon Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 I swear I wasn't trolling. I was just curious. I've seriously been away for almost two years. I remember the Space Wolf community being strongly against the SWs that supposedly defected to Huron. I'm aware of the Helix, but it seems that GW is now leaning toward publicizing SWs that have turned. Is the Inquisition easing up on formerly surprised info, or is retcon in full effect? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3024028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I'm sorry, but nobody is here to answer your trolling right now, please leave a message after the tone.... Now that's a new Sig for sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3024054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Considering that vast number of oversights within WD, this one is no surprise either. There has never been a problem with SW going renegade, see Huron and Skyrar. It can happen and has happened. Going renegade is not turning to Chaos. However the new WD craps on everything GW has ever told us regarding the Canis Helix and the "self-defense" mechanism against the warping powers of Chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3024081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Fang Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I swear I wasn't trolling. I was just curious. I've seriously been away for almost two years. I remember the Space Wolf community being strongly against the SWs that supposedly defected to Huron. I'm aware of the Helix, but it seems that GW is now leaning toward publicizing SWs that have turned. Is the Inquisition easing up on formerly surprised info, or is retcon in full effect? The issue isn't so much that some Wolves might turn to save themselves, it was more the number that apparently did and the circumstances in which this apparently took place. Many people question Gav Thorpe's (The **** **** responsible for the story) ability to write without stomping over established story lines as it is, and it should also be remembered that Gav Thorpe is a Dark Angels writer and therefore can't be trusted anyway... The ship that Huron took is futher mentioned in "The Gildar rift" by Sarah Cawkwell (Well worth a read btw). In her story the exact number of space wolves that fell isn't directly noted but a meer handful appear, which is a far more believable number than proposed by Gav Thorpe. It should also be noted that this story originally appeared in the Choas marine Codex and therefore would have a Chaos propagandist spin on the numbers and the ease with which the ship fell. What we can say for sure is, that the ship and a small number of marines fell into the hands of Huron. The ship and those said marines where engaged by the Silver skulls chapter within the Gildar rift and where rightfully punished for their transgressions against Russ and the allfather. The silver Skulls have fought beside the warriors of Fenris on many occasions and can be trusted to keep this event to themselves. The Canis Helix has protected Fenrisian warriors from the touch of the warp for tens of thousands of years and there is much documentation on the matter. See codex eye of terror and the Ragnar Saga.. As for the inquisition, until one of them can best Logan in honorable combat they have no say in Fenrisian matters. Not that anything the inquisition does can be classed as honorable, just look at the fate that befell the guardsmen that fought beside us at Armageddon. NOW NO MORE TALK OF TRAITORS OR YOU'LL GET A BLOOD CLAW TO THE FACE!! To the beer! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3024141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 @ Long Fang -Slaps the old man on the shoulder and laughs heartily- You tell him you wrinkly old coot! Very well said and thank you for that information, i will now have to read that book by Sarah Cawkwell. The way it seems to me is that the SWs have to voluntarily let the taint of chaos in before it can affect them. Ie rune priests using the warp powers or in the case of the dark wolves, worshiping the dark powers to save themselves/performing a "grand gesture". That's way it makes it plausible that while they are still loyal to the Emperor they are immune but once they turn then they are quite easily taintable like everyone else. Going renegade though is a different matter entirely and more of a label that the so called "Inquisition" likes to label every Man who might take one toe off the "true path". It doesn't mean they have to be chaotic, nor does it mean that they have actually turned from the emperor. In the end, it is your own fluff and if you can handle the criticism that others will surely have against it, then go for it. - Hands over a flagon of mjod laced with [insert poison that is deadly to chaos marines] with a smile- Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3024191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schertenleib Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Don't forget "Battle of the Fang". In that book the Wolf Brothers have fallen to Chaos. But as it has been said before Black Library is not exactly canon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3024235 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I swear I wasn't trolling. I was just curious. I've seriously been away for almost two years. I remember the Space Wolf community being strongly against the SWs that supposedly defected to Huron. I'm aware of the Helix, but it seems that GW is now leaning toward publicizing SWs that have turned. Is the Inquisition easing up on formerly surprised info, or is retcon in full effect? I'll speak for myself only, but the Huron defections just seemed too easy. Most marines, especially sw's would not just turn on a whim so I either needed to see that.... 1. they had a steady downward spiral into chaos and it was just that final millimeter of the nail into the coffin when they turned to Huron or... 2. it be revealed they were alpha legion :lol: As stated the GK's are the only chapter to have no one turn but I would think that for SW's it is much harder than most other. Given their in bred loyalty upon their original creation and the theory that the canis helix provides some protection. (at the expense of falling to the curse which is number 2 on the chart of things SW's wouldn't want to do(1 being turning traitor or to chaos)) t exactly canon. Not true. GW says everything is canon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3024242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Seraphion Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Considering our open animosity toward the inqusition and Logan in particular to the high lords of terra, I would truely be surprised if they wern't already calling us heretics and renegades at least behind closed doors. Plus there's that issue of our far greater numbers and disdain for the index astrates Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3024450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyroriffic Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Let me just quote you the relevant piece from the Chaos Space Marines codex: ...without warning, several of the Space Wolves turned on their brethren, attacking them from behind before surrendering to the mercy of the Blood Reaver. They recanted their oaths to the Space Wolves, Leman Russ and the Emperor and swore new pledges of loyalty to Huron. As a reward for their treachery, Blackheart granted them command of the Wolf of Fenris. 'Several' is perfectly ambiguous in terms of numbers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3024712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 'Several' is perfectly ambiguous in terms of numbers. Quite true. It sits nicely between 'a few' and 'many'. Now just what people infer when they use these terms, well, that's a different debate. :huh: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3024723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyroriffic Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 'Several' is perfectly ambiguous in terms of numbers. Quite true. It sits nicely between 'a few' and 'many'. Now just what people infer when they use these terms, well, that's a different debate. :huh: If it was a Welsh 'couple', you'd never have a clue how many it would be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3024739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 May the Emperor have mercy on us should we start to discuss THAT. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3024747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoll Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 its ok guys GW doesnt know what it is doing with its own fluff soon we'l have GK fall to chaos , I mean if they havent already that blood ritual with the sisters of battle sure seems like worship of khorne to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3024810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 NOW NO MORE TALK OF TRAITORS OR YOU'LL GET A BLOOD CLAW TO THE FACE!! not to derail the thread but i can't believe no one has commented on the fact that "Long Fang" the long fang is using blood claws as a heavy weapon choice. makes a sort of sense though. after all our heavies go from 10 points to 20 points and they would fill the gap at 15 points! :P On topic though i agree that we are more resistant. i always thought that is what the curse was there for. almost like a safety net in that you go wulfen instead of becoming tainted. i thought this may be why the 13th company had gone so feral. look at ragnar and how often he has come into contact with chaos (through a spear into a primearchs eye for goodness sake!). as far as aspirants undergoing the trial and turning that may mean that even though the wolf and rune priest passed them through the trials of morikai (sp?) and that they were free of taint maybe they were more susceptible to feel it. i don't know though. that's my own take. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3024908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 immune to chaos mutation? check. immune to being a coward and defecting? errr... problem? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3024974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmurph Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Practically speaking, it is just a way to move more models and give players some more options in differentiating their armies. Fallen wolves who betrayed their oaths for Huron is more interesting than yet more spikey bad guys. As to Chaos, it gets everywhere. that's part of the whole grimdark thing- everything is on a downward spiral and there is always a weak link. Even the whole "no GK ever turned" is probably just propaganda as the Inquisition would probably 1) purge any records of turning or 2) justify the behavior (see also sacrifices of loyal Ecclesiarchy servants while under the influence of Khornate power conditions). I personally love that there are fallen SWs- more grudge potential. Can you imagine the hatred and self loathing those SWs have who turned to Huron? In their cowardice they recanted everything they once stood for and they know perfectly well that their brethren now hunt them. And that their loyalist kindred have a strength they do not. So they probably turn deeper and deeper into their hatred, screaming to the dark gods for nothing more than the power to strike down that which is strong through virtue. Meanwhile, the sons of Russ will probably stop at nothing to rip out the throats of their traitor kin. While those tremoring heretics might have sunk to any depth to protect their own skin, the true wolves know that a life without honor is meaningless and a death with glory is nothing to be mourned. If a wolves must throw himself into the jaws of death, so be it. It is much harder to swallow a wolf that fights than a dog who cowers! One day we will reclaim that ship. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3024977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphariusomegon20 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Considering that there is a painted example of a Renegade Space Wolf on in the Chaos 3.5 codex, I think there's little doubt that a Space Wolf can turn Renegade. Whether the Red Corsairs are Chaos or not is open to some debate now. Huron has moved closer to being Chaos over time in our fluff. At one time, yes he WAS merely renegade, but he's much more cosy now with Chaos than he used to be. One could also argue that the Wolves have been affected by Chaos to an extent. Remember, the Wulfen IS a mutation, though of it's own sort, much the same as the flesh change of the Thousand Sons and the abominations of the Raven Guard. Whether it is truly Chaos associated or not is also open to debate. I think it's possible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3025206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 IIRC the 13th company fluff stated the canis helix protected the space wolves from mutation by chaos but can bring about its own change. but while it stops mutation it does not stop a space wolf turning to chaos of his free will. people get these two factors mixed up. the canis helix is not mutation the emperor choose to use it and IIRC so did the fenrisian genetic engineers when they arrived on fenris Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3025231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Heretic Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 The only way to become immune to chaos temptation, is to be a non-sentient, non-emotional being, being a prideful norse berserker and secretly filled with envy of the ultramarines really doesn't go that well with that :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3025272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 The only way to become immune to chaos temptation, is to be a non-sentient, non-emotional being, being a prideful norse berserker and secretly filled with envy of the ultramarines really doesn't go that well with that :P Nice trolling buddy :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3025300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 The only way to become immune to chaos temptation, is to be a non-sentient, non-emotional being, being a prideful norse berserker and secretly filled with envy of the ultramarines really doesn't go that well with that :) Silly heretic, go play with your demonically possessed minions and Demonically possessed weapons ;) On a side note, DUDE your GK army looks pimptastic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249633-fallen-space-wolves/#findComment-3025363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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