Would you accept these finecast mini's?

[Randomselect]

Hi guys, i got some REPLACEMENT mini's from gw.

i'm still no way happy with the quality, but wondered what you guys would think had you recieved the same ones?

 

Heres a taste of one, bear in mind these are supposed to be replacements!

 

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z378/RandomSelect/badbanner2.jpg

 

I know it looks like a lot of flash (which there is) its not the flash thats the problem with this part,The whole piece is almost powdery and rubs off in your fingers :S

 

if youre interested theres more pics of all the other parts on my blog @

http://marsekayspainting.blogspot.co.uk/20...it-already.html

[Grotsmasha]

I guess the simple answer is, If you have to ask......

 

Personally my 25th Captain as A-OK, but for something like him, I expected perfection. If your not happy, keep getting replacements, as a customer you are entitled to a fault-free product. If every customer insists on quality and GW has to hand out 3-5 copies for every failcast mini purchased, they'll have to get better.

 

Imo, at least, cheers,

Jono

[Randomselect]

I guess the simple answer is, If you have to ask......

 

Personally my 25th Captain as A-OK, but for something like him, I expected perfection. If your not happy, keep getting replacements, as a customer you are entitled to a fault-free product. If every customer insists on quality and GW has to hand out 3-5 copies for every failcast mini purchased, they'll have to get better.

 

Imo, at least, cheers,

Jono

 

This is pretty much my opinion, i really think people need to make a stand and not keep accepting bad quality mini's otherwise GW will keep producing them.

[kataklysm]

I guess the simple answer is, If you have to ask......

 

Personally my 25th Captain as A-OK, but for something like him, I expected perfection. If your not happy, keep getting replacements, as a customer you are entitled to a fault-free product. If every customer insists on quality and GW has to hand out 3-5 copies for every failcast mini purchased, they'll have to get better.

 

Imo, at least, cheers,

Jono

 

This is pretty much my opinion, i really think people need to make a stand and not keep accepting bad quality mini's otherwise GW will keep producing them.

 

 

Well here is the reality of this whole post.

 

First off the "powdery" substance is a release agent that is used in resin casting so that the miniature does not stick to the mould when it is made (you may not have know this, so i wont call you dumb). This substance comes off quite easily with some warm soapy water and a sof bristle toothbrush or equivilant.

 

Secondly: "taking a stand" against GW by not buying these miniatures wont work. GW does not produce items that we need, morover they make products that we WANT. There is no way to boycott a leisure item. Besides though i agree that GWs' quality control sucks, heres the kicker. If you call their customer service and tell them about the problem, more often that not they will just send you A NEW MINIATURE!

 

So... Yes Finecast is a hit and miss item, yes they are expensive, yes there are many reasons that people get aggrivated about them, but at least they make up for their mistakes.

 

GW wins YOU lose

Game Over

[Jay Taint]

This is pretty much my opinion, i really think people need to make a stand and not keep accepting bad quality mini's otherwise GW will keep producing them.

:mellow: Well said, Grotsmasha. I agree, but I'm afraid I'd be happy with that particular part. It's flashy and powdery and stuff, but on that single picture it looks easy enough to clean ... doesn't it? I would always expect, and ask for, a flawless product. But one has to be fair. A bit of flash and powder isn't too bad ...

Having said that, Randomselect, it's difficult to really judge because there's something wrong with the pictures at your blog? I can't see any of them.

 

Cheers, JT

[Grotsmasha]

@kataklysm: Absolutely, boycotting leisure items wont work, but expecting GW to supply a fault free mini is not unreasonable. Some failcast are worse than others (Any one bought the Sternguard boxset?), if GW is forced to replace all uneasonably faulty minis, in the case of the Sternguard and a few others it can/has taken more than 5 replacements, they will need to stepup their QC, which will benifit all of us.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[kataklysm]

@kataklysm: Absolutely, boycotting leisure items wont work, but expecting GW to supply a fault free mini is not unreasonable. Some failcast are worse than others (Any one bought the Sternguard boxset?), if GW is forced to replace all uneasonably faulty minis, in the case of the Sternguard and a few others it can/has taken more than 5 replacements, they will need to stepup their QC, which will benifit all of us.

 

Cheers,

Jono

 

 

I agree wih the end of your response there. The only way to possibly change their current attitude towards :D quality control is simply to call and hassle them over ever single faulty mini you recieve and demand a new one. (And by hassle I dont mean harrass them with profanity and anger.) On my side of things I dont plan on buying anything finecast anyway, if I cannot convert/scratch the unit I want then I will not field them.

 

Regards,

-kataklysm

[Subtle Discord]

To paraphrase - "Boycotting a luxury item won't work."

 

I can't agree.

 

Luxury or necessity, sales are king. If sales and profit margins start to slip, no matter what the product is, a company needs to try to understand why, and what they can do to improving things. In fact, with a luxury item, boycotting is an excellent method to get a point across. It's already been said, we do not need these items. If GW wants us to spend our hard earned money on something we don't need, they better offer a quality product at a reasonable price point, worthy of our hard earned money.

 

If it's a necessity of life (and many things today aren't, we've just grown so used to them that we consider them necessities) I will have no choice but to find the best supplier I can manage, and buy. For example, If I don't like the price or quality of food or water, I can only refuse to buy them to certain degree. After a certain point I either eat and/or drink what is offered, or die. Unless, I can find a way to supply my own.

 

If it's a luxury, I just need to have the willpower and common sense to set my level of expectation to a certain point. If the product on offer drops below that level, I choose to 'boycott' and walk away with my money in my pocket. If enough people 'boycott', the company offering the product then has some choices to make if they want to sell said product.

 

Finecast appears to be leaving a bad taste in many people's mouths. If GW is not careful, they will start to see in their bottom line. I suspect they already have, despite their revenue growth last year. How they move forward will be telling.

[Randomselect]

Is it POSSIBLE GW could do a full U turn and go back to metals? or is it completely out of the question as it openly shows them admitting failure?

[Olis]

Is it POSSIBLE GW could do a full U turn and go back to metals? or is it completely out of the question as it openly shows them admitting failure?

 

I highly doubt a full U-turn will ever happen because the finecast material is FAR cheaper to manufacture with than white-metal alloy. It would take extraordinary circumstances for a U-turn to happen, brother, imho.

[The Normish]

All of my Finecast miniatures have been of good quality. One squished head in the Sternguard, but it is not noticeable unless you stick it in your eye.

I would accept that, as it takes very little effort to correct the mistakes in the model. Error happens.

[WingsOfTheFalcon]

In fairness, as per with miscast metal minis, you just ask for a replacement until you get a decent cast.

 

With the raw material cost differential from metal to resin, GW can probably afford to waste 50% or more of their resin stock in returns and replacements, because the margins are massive (Hence their impressive financial performance last year).

 

At the end of the day, there are some QC issues, but not enough to justify the 'failcast' moaning we see so much of, from GW's bottom line it's clearly very much 'WINcast'.

 

I think they should package finecast boxes with some free liquid GS, but apart from that they're 'fine'.

 

WotF

[striker8]

Hi guys, i got some REPLACEMENT mini's from gw.

i'm still no way happy with the quality, but wondered what you guys would think had you recieved the same ones?

 

Heres a taste of one, bear in mind these are supposed to be replacements!

 

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z378/RandomSelect/badbanner2.jpg

 

I know it looks like a lot of flash (which there is) its not the flash thats the problem with this part,The whole piece is almost powdery and rubs off in your fingers :S

 

if youre interested theres more pics of all the other parts on my blog @

http://marsekayspainting.blogspot.co.uk/20...it-already.html

 

Unlike most of the other repies I think that looks almost perfect. I learned long ago that with resin having a surround of thin flash is a good thing unlike flash on metal mini's. IT helps reduce the lack of fill you sometimes see in resin that has no flash.

 

The powder is mold release, most likely talc of some sort and it was common on the metal mini's so it's not new. It's why for the whole time I've been doing miniatures, 30+ years, you were always encouraged to wash mini's before painting. Nothing has changed with that other than people have forgotten about doing it for what ever reason.

 

I don't get the outrage, part of a persons involment in miniature wargaing is the assembly and prep of mini's for painting. So instead of a few minutes spent filling metal you spend a few scraping flash, instead of clipping and filing off vent spikes you fill a few bubbles, you should of been washing metals so washing resin isn't a stretch. What I hear here is a small group of people that look for reason to complain because of change not because there is a real reason.

 

Buy the way, on the cost end, resin is probably slighly more labor intensive, but the weght savings for shipping is about half of what metal would be. With the way fuel costs are going I would say going to resin is a god send or you would be looking at more than a usual price hike plus shipping charges that would be astronomical.

[Subtle Discord]

With the raw material cost differential from metal to resin, GW can probably afford to waste 50% or more of their resin stock in returns and replacements, because the margins are massive (Hence their impressive financial performance last year).

 

What you say is true, and I agree, but it brings up what I think are two large points.

 

1) Just because you can absorb the shortfalls of bad quality control with a new (cheaper) production method, doesn't mean you should. It's a very self-destructive and shortsighted approach. I just can't see how replacing a model that should never have left the factory in the fist place is a more cost effective choice. Even if it is still profitable.

 

2) With resin being a more cost effective process, that can even produce superior results, why the price hike? Don't get me wrong, I understand the business of the choice from a dollars point of view. Larger profit margins are always good. But I'm also lucky to have a bit of an understand of the casting process, and just how reasonable the cost of materials are. Considering the growing pains of Finecast, I can't see the justification for the price hike - especially when I know it could still be significantly more profitable at their old price point. In fact, the price hikes in general, are starting to get to the level of insulting, and I wonder how long GW thinks it will be sustainable. They will reach a tipping point, where the 'addiction' of the hobby (And trust me, I'm 'hooked' as much as the next gamer) won't be able to outweigh the sticker shock.

 

I did some math once and found that I could actually cast a GW miniature in solid Sterling Silver, and still turn a profit if I charged what GW used to for Pewter. I understand they have many other cost considerations, but I still nearly had a stroke. I wonder what the numbers would look like today, with the price of Silver where it is.

[WingsOfTheFalcon]

With the raw material cost differential from metal to resin, GW can probably afford to waste 50% or more of their resin stock in returns and replacements, because the margins are massive (Hence their impressive financial performance last year).

Many very valid points..

I have to bow to your superior experience when it comes to the business of casting, but looking at it I think GW saw the price they were paying for tin etc going through the roof and decided that they needed to adopt the new material to prevent their own costs spiralling out of control. Even if the production process was hit and miss (which it is) they still make a marked improvement on short-term profit using the new materials.

 

Give it some time and QC measures, suddenly they'll stop seeing so many returns of the casts, and sure enough the material becomes even more profitable.

 

I agree ideally they'd have had the QC in place long before the switch, but I suspect the decision to switch the material was a bit of a rush job, along with the move to the new casting methods.

 

The price increase I suspect was mainly to cover the cost of the new capital investment for the machinery/staff.

 

Memories are short, once the QC is back up to par people will forget they ever had metal minis.

 

WotF

[Subtle Discord]

Oh, and don't get me wrong, all my ranting aside (and it's not meant to be a rant, just presenting what I think is logic, and ask questions for the sake of debate) I completely agree with GWs choice. Resin casting has improved significantly over the last several years, and it really is a wise direction to head. It really is the great product that GW was saying it is, when done right.

 

I even think the ratio of good to bad casts over the entire range is vastly on the side of good, just not far enough, yet. Minor defects are nearly unavoidable. I just wish they had of really perfected the process for another 6-to-12 months before diving in feet first. In many ways it feels like they rushed things. GW should know better, and treat their core product with more respect.

 

You're right though, memories are short.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

I must say, I've had zero issues with Finecast, ever. Granted, I didn't buy the first batch, but I haven't had any problems. If anything, they've definitely tightened up their quality control from the first batch.