MuGGzy Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I have been away from the HH world for a bit, reading the Hunger Games trilogy and other BL books not HH related and just started Deliverance Lost. I have read almost every HH story, including most of the limited or short stories and cannot recall any mention of "The Cabal" as mentioned in Deliverance Lost. What book do the discussions and actions referred to in the past tense relating to this "Panxeno Alliance" called "The Cabal" actually happen in? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaintMyBits Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Its in Legion mate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3024933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 They appeared first in Legion. If you haven't read that then you're missing the backstory with the Cabal that goes with that part of Dileverance Lost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3024935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuGGzy Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 thx, I have that and read it when it first came out but I totally don't remember that part I guess. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3024946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Really? They were pretty integral to the (end of the) story... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3024952 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Does John Grammaticus ring any bells? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3024965 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Shady Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 It's not just Legion and DL they are in :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3025049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 It's not just Legion and DL they are in :) I must have missed that :wacko: what else have they been in? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3025110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I would say Know No Fear but that was more John Grammaticus and the Cabal was only mentioned in passing. Legion and Deliverance Lost are the only currently published HH novels that I am aware of them being in. Unless it is an audiobook. I don't do audiobooks. I hate them with the fiery passion of a Black Templar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3025155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Shady Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I would say Know No Fear but that was more John Grammaticus and the Cabal was only mentioned in passing. Legion and Deliverance Lost are the only currently published HH novels that I am aware of them being in. Unless it is an audiobook. I don't do audiobooks. I hate them with the fiery passion of a Black Templar. I'd say it's more to do with Oll than John. They know each other so must have dealt with the Cabal or worked for them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3025211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 It is about being something called the Perpetuals. From what I understand from the people who have been involved in the fluff longer than I have(or just more of it since mine is mostly restricted to BL until two years ago) it has something to do with the Sensei who were supposed to be actual, biological children of the Emperor. As in concieved by Emperor and woman. Not gene-forged in a laboratory while hooked up to a Gellar field. Apparently Oll and Grammaticus were some of the original Sensei characters when it was new fluff. And the passing reference to the Cabal was when Grammaticus mentioned that Oll could reincarnate but made the distinction that Oll had the power to do it himself while John's was borrowed from the Cabal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3025509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 thx, I have that and read it when it first came out but I totally don't remember that part I guess. About a hundred pages from your copy must have been lost to the ether then ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3025578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I thought the Watchers were pretty Cabal-ish in Descent of Angels & Fallen Angels. This might not be explicit though- so it's more the similarity that makes me think of it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3025592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 thx, I have that and read it when it first came out but I totally don't remember that part I guess. About a hundred pages from your copy must have been lost to the ether then :huh: It must have been removed by Alpharius..... :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3025611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Apparently Oll and Grammaticus were some of the original Sensei characters when it was new fluff. As far as I'm aware both characters are new, with the Sensei fluff far outdating them (from the RT era, iirc). Grammaticus first pops up in Legion and Oll first pops up in Know No Fear (I haven't finished reading that, though). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3025640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 That's what I thought. But Oll is apparently an old character who used to be a saint or something and some other people were saying something that they were old. It was throwing me for a loop. It's in one of the five thousand Grammaticus/KNF threads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3025810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 That's what I thought. But Oll is apparently an old character who used to be a saint or something and some other people were saying something that they were old. It was throwing me for a loop. It's in one of the five thousand Grammaticus/KNF threads. Well, I'm just guessing that, as I have not finished the book and have mostly avoided spoilers, Oll may be Ollanius Pius. If that is the case then two things need to be explained - First: Ollanius Pious is indeed an old character. He briefly (and only) appears in the climactic fight between the Emperor and Horus (the first version of the story, I believe) and interrupts the fracas by attacking Horus (I'm doing a disservice to the story with that description, so I humbly apologise). Horus in turn strikes down the lowly guardsman (yes, guardsman) with but a mere look. This galvanises the Emperor into actually trying to kill Horus, rather than defeat and save him (which he does). Second: Ollanius was never said, hinted, alluded or described as being anything other than a lowly Guardsman. Not a Sensei, not an Illuminati, not a Terminator nor a Custodes. A regular human being. That's it. I hope that helps clear things up a bit. :) Edit - I'd better just say that, because of the differing versions of the story (one with an Imperial Fist Terminator interrupting the fight, one with a Custodes) some people had been grumbling about Pious being retconned out of existence. This was attended to by FFG in one of their expansion books for Dark Heresy (I think) and explains that the stories differ depending on who's telling it and references Ollanius Pious as a saint in some places of the Imperium. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3025823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 It's in one of the five thousand Grammaticus/KNF threads. He reappeared before Know No Fear- in Dark Heresy as a background sidebar: Page 20 of Dark Heresy: Blood of Martyrs: Many of the Imperium's myriad institutions have their own special saints, individuals who are held as exemplars of a given groups values. The scribes of the Administratum revere saints who exemplify exactitude and efficiency; the enforcers of the Adeptus Arbites venerate saints who pursued the guilty to the very ends of the galaxy. For the Imperial Guard, Ollanius Pius stands out above a multitude of warrior saints. Of this warrior, no facts are known for certain, and it may be that he never actually existed at all except as a conglomeration of the ideals and virtues that motivate the Imperial Guard. Legend states that Ollanius, a lowly soldier in the armies of the Emperor, found himself fighting near or alongside the Emperor himself, somehow intervened to protect the Emperor for a deadly blow delivered by a vile traitor, and was killed doing so. There are countless variations on this tale, and it is by no means accepted as canon throughout the Ministorum. In fact, other bodies have similar tales, including the Adeptus Astartes, who hold that the primarch of the Imperial Fists Chapter, Rogal Dorn, performed a similar service, if not as fatal, to the Emperor thousands of years ago. While the true details of his life are unlikely ever to be known, the figure of Ollanius is to be found in Imperial Guard shrines, texts and banners across thousands of regiments. He serves as an example of duty and sacrifice, and by his death demonstrates that even the lowest-ranked soldier can serve side by side with the highest, and by his deeds turn the tide of history. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3025825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 *snip* Sorry about ninja-ing you with an edit, brother. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3025827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 No worries. FFG does do good stuff- wondering if their ideas might get drawn on in 6E. If the galaxy maps include, for example, Hive Fleet Dagon, or the Storm Wardens home world, or the Calixus Sector, I would be a happy bunny. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3025830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Oll Personn is, I believe. meant to be Ollanius Pius, as he is called Ollanius several times and John Grammaticus refers to him as "Pious" at one point, and he always seems to be offering a prayer to his god. I reckon he is one and the same person. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3025832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I have never read any of the FFG books so...... Yeah. But I did hear the part I mentioned on the Ultramarine retcon thread I want to say, but I do know it was a thread that involved him and Grammaticus. But that is all new stuff so thanks for showing it to me! But yes I think Persson and Pious are supposed to be the same person based on the fact that it is even said that he has gone through different names throughout his many lives. Pious may just have been his first name. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3025939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 It consistently mentions that people call him pious, his first name is Ollanius, and at one point I believe it mentions him seeing some sort of uber-evil doom villain in a vision(Hint: Horus :lol: ). So yeah, I'm going with Ollanius Pius. Originally, Pius was a Guardsman who ended up on Horus's battle barge with the Emperor, and who wandered into the room of the final conflict. He distracted Horus long enough for the Emperor to kill Horus at the end. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3025991 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Just a note, he didn't end up on Horus' battlebarge, it was the old version of the story, he was alongside the Emperor at Horus' bunker. All of which is off topic. As others have already pointed out, the best source for information on the Cabal, as yet, is Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3026092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I just thought of (stolen from Warseer) that during KNF, Grammaticus shows Pius a vision of him aboard what would appear to be Horus' battleship at THAT final moment,so he knows what he must do to save the Emperor, as in the old fluff but, as shown in Legion, the Cabal, Johns bosses, want the Emperor to die in order for Horus to eventually lose it and destroy the human race/chaos So basically, is John Grammaticus still working for the Cabal or has he gone rogue? The original discussion about this was is on Warseer btw, i didnt start the topic there. Also, hoping this doesnt seem too OT, it does involve the Cabal to a certain extent? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/#findComment-3026832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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