Castiel Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I think he must be rogue at this point, after all at the end of Legion he walked out of the airlock after falling out with the Cabal Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/page/2/#findComment-3027182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wings of Fury Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 I'm of the opinion that the cabal are the puppets of chaos working working to bring about the current 40k timeline. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/page/2/#findComment-3046595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 I thought their version was for Horus to win? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/page/2/#findComment-3046874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Yes, and thereby eliminate all life and start over, saving everyone from a slow death. I've actually been thinking, and noticing that this may have something to do with the Tyranids and making them go away from the galaxy, too. After all, if they don't have anyone to feed on, they won't go after the place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/page/2/#findComment-3046908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Yes, and thereby eliminate all life and start over, saving everyone from a slow death. I've actually been thinking, and noticing that this may have something to do with the Tyranids and making them go away from the galaxy, too. After all, if they don't have anyone to feed on, they won't go after the place. The problem was that it wasn't all life. It was all human life. Any xenos who were smart enough to escape/survive(dark eldar/orks) Horus during the two or three predicted centuries necessary for him to go batsy would survive the mass suicide of the human race as it annihilated itself. Then of course they'd be left for the tyranids to use as chow food. But since everything is going towards Alpharius and Omegon having different ways of going around the same thing(i.e. Alpharius tolerating the Cabal's representative while Omegon flushes him out of the airlock. Actually, I think he used an entire hangar bay to do it.) I agree that Chaos is using the Cabal, but mroe in a reverse psychology setting. By convincing them to convince the Alpha Legion to turn traitor, they were able to sink the claws/fangs/talons/hands/pseudo-limbs into the Twin Primarchs and their Legion. Or at least one of the Primarchs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/page/2/#findComment-3047213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Yes, and thereby eliminate all life and start over, saving everyone from a slow death. I've actually been thinking, and noticing that this may have something to do with the Tyranids and making them go away from the galaxy, too. After all, if they don't have anyone to feed on, they won't go after the place. The problem was that it wasn't all life. It was all human life. Any xenos who were smart enough to escape/survive(dark eldar/orks) Horus during the two or three predicted centuries necessary for him to go batsy would survive the mass suicide of the human race as it annihilated itself. Then of course they'd be left for the tyranids to use as chow food. But since everything is going towards Alpharius and Omegon having different ways of going around the same thing(i.e. Alpharius tolerating the Cabal's representative while Omegon flushes him out of the airlock. Actually, I think he used an entire hangar bay to do it.) I agree that Chaos is using the Cabal, but mroe in a reverse psychology setting. By convincing them to convince the Alpha Legion to turn traitor, they were able to sink the claws/fangs/talons/hands/pseudo-limbs into the Twin Primarchs and their Legion. Or at least one of the Primarchs. Read Primarchs :D Would the Nids still have come to the Imperium (or the area that it resided in) if there was no Imperium? 40k without humanity i guess would jst be Orks and necrons, possibly the Tau if the orks hadnt found them before they got super-advanced. Or possibly the Cabal had a plan to repopulate after humanity was gone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/page/2/#findComment-3047495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Baal Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 This is quite interesting. I didn't consider that the Cabal could be working for Chaos. Though I must admit I have not read all the novels yet, I pretty much took them at face value as they are presented in legion. I saw them as a faction wanting to maintain the balance in the universe, that they pretty much liked things the way they were. That they were above the petty squabbles of the lesser races and let history take it's course. With perhaps the odd nudge from their agents here and there when needed. That they were were a group of immortals with special abilities and advanced technology - the only thing they feared was the universe falling to Chaos and they did all in their power to prevent that. Once Chaos gets it's claws into Horus, they have to reveal themselves and take action, pretty much for the reasons it says in the book. From what I read in legion they did not seem to display any taint of Chaos and most of their power seemed to come from advanced technology with the odd innate ability thrown in, so this is all part of a double bluff? Why would a group of powerful immortals want to through their lot in with Chaos - surely they are better off the way things are? We know the version of the future in which the Emperor wins is accurate, we have the benefit of hindsight. But the version where Horus wins, surely if that is 100% accurate, Chaos would not want that outcome as ultimately it is vanquished from the universe. So no true agent of Chaos would want this version to came to pass. Out of the two possible futures, the Emperor winning is the best result for Chaos in the long run, as eventually it gains ascendancy in the universe and what's a few thousand years waiting to the denizens of the warp? So is the Horus victory version just a ruse to get the AL onside, one thing I show you is the truth, the other a lie, or are the Cabal true to their word? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/page/2/#findComment-3047659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sponsra Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 We know the version of the future in which the Emperor wins is accurate, we have the benefit of hindsight. I don´t please elaborate? I have a vague memory -is it in some passage in The Outcast dead? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/page/2/#findComment-3048006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Baal Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Hi Sponsra- Perhaps "Emperor wins" is a little misleading. It was just how I remember it being phrased in legion, I could be wrong, I don't have the book with me to check. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say "if Horus falls at Terra". Whether this outcome is actually a win, loss or draw is indeed discussed in TOD. Is this what you mean? My question was how honest the cabal were being with the AL. Were they really agents of Chaos or were they just following their own agenda? Personally I think it's the latter. We know that they were being honest with at least one of their visions of the future - the one where Horus falls at Terra, the Emperor is seated on the Golden Throne, his dream of the Imperium devolves into the decaying carcass that we see in the current 40k timeline. As for the second vision, is it as accurate as the first or is it a mere fabrication to get the AL to do the Cabal's bidding? Personally I think that is the big question and from what I have read so far I don't have an answer. The AL do side with Horus yet he falls at Terra regardless. So that would suggest there is a flaw in the second vision. Or do the actions of the AL alter it's outcome? It could be that the AL switch sides again or perhaps there is a split within the legion, one primarch staying loyal, the other following Horus. I guess we will just have to wait and see how the story pans out. The only thing we can be sure of is which of the two visions becomes 40k history. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/page/2/#findComment-3048264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Yes, and thereby eliminate all life and start over, saving everyone from a slow death. I've actually been thinking, and noticing that this may have something to do with the Tyranids and making them go away from the galaxy, too. After all, if they don't have anyone to feed on, they won't go after the place. The problem was that it wasn't all life. It was all human life. Any xenos who were smart enough to escape/survive(dark eldar/orks) Horus during the two or three predicted centuries necessary for him to go batsy would survive the mass suicide of the human race as it annihilated itself. Then of course they'd be left for the tyranids to use as chow food. But since everything is going towards Alpharius and Omegon having different ways of going around the same thing(i.e. Alpharius tolerating the Cabal's representative while Omegon flushes him out of the airlock. Actually, I think he used an entire hangar bay to do it.) I agree that Chaos is using the Cabal, but mroe in a reverse psychology setting. By convincing them to convince the Alpha Legion to turn traitor, they were able to sink the claws/fangs/talons/hands/pseudo-limbs into the Twin Primarchs and their Legion. Or at least one of the Primarchs. Read Primarchs ;) Would the Nids still have come to the Imperium (or the area that it resided in) if there was no Imperium? 40k without humanity i guess would jst be Orks and necrons, possibly the Tau if the orks hadnt found them before they got super-advanced. Or possibly the Cabal had a plan to repopulate after humanity was gone. I'll read it as soon as I can get my hands on it. The "Nids, they would have come regardless. The only thing that drew them to the Milky Way was food. That's it. That's all they are looking for. The Cabal may not know they are working for Chaos. They manipulate what the warp shows in the Acuity Visions and the Cabal acts on false information. Horus was already Warmaster by the time of Legion and that threw them completely off guard. The hindsight vision was mentioned in Legion. And it wasn't if the Emperor won, just that Horus lost. And it would lead to the 40k that we all know and love/hate. And that Chaos will eventually win. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/page/2/#findComment-3048265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wings of Fury Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 they way i see it that the cabal recruited the AL so horus would win causing him to wipe out humanity. But how do we know that it wasn't the Al who caused the olimpians/Nightlord home planets to rebel/fall to violence thro the use of agents which leads to the fall of the iron warriors/nightlords. so if the cabal hadn't turned the AL there would have been 2/3 more loyal legions at istivan and horus would of got bitch slapped and never even made it to terra and the big E would still be alive and chaos would have been majorly weakend thro the lack of worship due to the imperial truth's secular nature depriving them of worshippers and that is where gods get their power from. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249693-what-is-the-cabal/page/2/#findComment-3052927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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