huntingbane Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 this is a question for my brother and he'd like to know what the best hq in close combat is regardless of points. he'd also like to know what is the best army in close combat we choose to put it in this main topic (chaos daemons,blood angels,grey knights,space marines,space wolves, chaos space marines,eldar,dark eldar,orks,tyranids and necrons)because we thought it was chaos daemons. we didnt add sisters of battle,tau or imperial guard. if we missed one you can still say it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249808-whats-the-best/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Daemon prince, Khârn, Daemon Prince, Abaddon, Daemon prince, the list really isn't that long. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249808-whats-the-best/#findComment-3026867 Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntingbane Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 Daemon prince, Khârn, Daemon Prince, Abaddon, Daemon prince, the list really isn't that long. ok but how about the chaos daemon special characters and what wargear do you give daemon prince. apparently lots of hq's and some elites can beat and abbadon Khârn thanks heaps though and it is huntingbanes brother not him replying to all messages thanks guys and what do you think best army would be though BLOOD 4 THE BLOOD GOD SKULLS 4 THE SKULL THRONE AND SPRINKLES 4 CAKE Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249808-whats-the-best/#findComment-3027082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Well the Chaos Daemon special characters can only be used with the Chaos Daemons army. Not to sure about them. On the daemon prince, I know the prefferred tactic is to take them in pairs with wings and either a Mark of Khorne for the extra attack, a Mark of Nurgle for durability or a Mark of Slaanesh with Lash of Submission. It used to be two Daemon Princes with wings and warptime but a recent update to the codex made warptime useless. As far as troops go, either BerErkers or Plague Marines, both with Champions, are your best bet. A mix of the two would be pricey but it would take you a long way. The usual loadout for the Plague Marines is to either have two meltas or two plasmas. The meltas are for if you want toattack with the Plague Marines. If you want them to hold objectives from the enemy, then you give them two plasmas. All squads get one Rhino with no upgrades. It won't last that long anyways so you might as well save the points to go somewhere else. Don't take any Fast Attack unless it is for fun. For Heavy Support, take Obliterators. Either in pairs or triplets is what usually works best. There's some serious debate about what Elites to take so I can only recommend mix-n-match for that. If you want anymore advice, the best thing I can recommend is to look For Jeske and private message him. He is the best person to ask about the best lists to use with the current dex. I will warn you that you will hear a lot of ranting about how useless our dex is. It is worth listening to to get his advice. Other than that, maybe private message one of the moderators, like Brother Nihm, to move this topic to the Chaos Ascendant subforum so it can get some more exposure since that is where everybody seems to be at the moment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249808-whats-the-best/#findComment-3027351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 *topic was moved* Huntingbane, you may want to clarify what it is you are looking for and provide a little more information about what you like, dislike etc. Since this is the Chaos section, we will limit the discussion to what the best Chaos Marine or Chaos Daemon army would be for close combat, as other armies fall outside of our scope. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249808-whats-the-best/#findComment-3027483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 chaos by its nature can be eminently more choppy that most loyalist chapters.. sapce wolves and grey knights have some nasty cc units. for the most part it doesnt matter, an army of genestealers can tear up just about anything in close combat, but are useless when caught in the open by ranged weapons. daemons are again of a similar vein, most of thier damage is done in close combat, but they have to be shot at first. the best armies have eleemnts of both shooty and assault, so really it doesnt matter which has the best assaulters, imperial guard will laugh at them regardless. IMO you cant go wrong with Khârn, failing that a nurgle lord with daemon weapon goes well in a rhino with zerks or possessed or something. if you wanna go TDA, abby is your man, other than that look at a nurgle daemon prince Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249808-whats-the-best/#findComment-3027490 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Since others have already commented about the marines, I'll say my bit for daemons. For heralds each is usable with their own build. Skulltaker is basically a buffed up herald, although heralds of khorne on their own aren't all that great. I love using skulltaker on a jugger though because of his special ID rending. I haven't used the masque or epidemius but epidemius in particular has his own special build that's pretty nasty. The tzeentch special herald is pretty decent too but a bit pricy. The GD specials aren't all that in my opinion. The thirster special is good with his own unique build (him as an HQ along with lots of slaneshi units). Kairos fateweaver is my favorite out of the daemon HQs. Take him and surround him with bloodcrushers and you'll have a very powerful unit. I love daemons but they can be very difficult to use if you aren't used to deepstriking, as their entire army deepstrikes. Chaos as a whole isn't that great at the moment, daemons are slightly more competitive than CSM but they both fall behind some of the newer codex books. Really its up to you though whether you want to be one of the millions of loyalists or the badasses of the universe (chaos ). :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249808-whats-the-best/#findComment-3027538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntingbane Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 *topic was moved* Huntingbane, you may want to clarify what it is you are looking for and provide a little more information about what you like, dislike etc. Since this is the Chaos section, we will limit the discussion to what the best Chaos Marine or Chaos Daemon army would be for close combat, as other armies fall outside of our scope. Ok is what im looking for is a really hard unit or best unit in close combat what wargear to give him and like you guys have done how to use him(im saying close combat because i love it) im also looking for the all round best close combat army and what is the best hq in close combat in the game. i was also wondering isnt there special like bloodthirster character because when i went to games workshop there was one of them for each chaos god(i mean special character not codex) and tought they would be really good. i already own a chaos space marine army but get beaten in combat i have khorne bezerkers ,plague marines,land raider,lesser daemons,rhino,abbadon,possessed and terminators. if you guys are going to include chaosdaemon characters please include special rules because i have absolutely no idea what abilities they have. thanks hope that gave you an explanation of what i was looking for minigun762 BLOOD 4 THE BLOOD GOD SKULLS 4 THE SKULL THRONE SPRINKLES 4 CAKE chaos by its nature can be eminently more choppy that most loyalist chapters.. sapce wolves and grey knights have some nasty cc units.for the most part it doesnt matter, an army of genestealers can tear up just about anything in close combat, but are useless when caught in the open by ranged weapons. daemons are again of a similar vein, most of thier damage is done in close combat, but they have to be shot at first. the best armies have eleemnts of both shooty and assault, so really it doesnt matter which has the best assaulters, imperial guard will laugh at them regardless. IMO you cant go wrong with Khârn, failing that a nurgle lord with daemon weapon goes well in a rhino with zerks or possessed or something. if you wanna go TDA, abby is your man, other than that look at a nurgle daemon prince Ok but what do you give the lord other than a daemon weapon(and obviously mark of nurgle) Since others have already commented about the marines, I'll say my bit for daemons. For heralds each is usable with their own build. Skulltaker is basically a buffed up herald, although heralds of khorne on their own aren't all that great. I love using skulltaker on a jugger though because of his special ID rending. I haven't used the masque or epidemius but epidemius in particular has his own special build that's pretty nasty. The tzeentch special herald is pretty decent too but a bit pricy. The GD specials aren't all that in my opinion. The thirster special is good with his own unique build (him as an HQ along with lots of slaneshi units). Kairos fateweaver is my favorite out of the daemon HQs. Take him and surround him with bloodcrushers and you'll have a very powerful unit. I love daemons but they can be very difficult to use if you aren't used to deepstriking, as their entire army deepstrikes. Chaos as a whole isn't that great at the moment, daemons are slightly more competitive than CSM but they both fall behind some of the newer codex books. Really its up to you though whether you want to be one of the millions of loyalists or the badasses of the universe (chaos ). :o thanks fo saying some stuff about marines but what special rules do those guys have SKULLS 4 THE SKULL THRONE BLOOD 4 THE BLOOD GOD SPRINKLES 4 CAKE do any of you have a codex if you do could you (big favour) type in the special characters rules stats abilities and upgrades(dont need description of each thing) (for example the sausage roll renders the flesh and bone it counts as a power weapon for an extra 10 points just say sausage role is power wep 4 10p) thanks BLOOD 4 BLOOD GOD SKULLS 4 SKULL THRONE SPRINKLES 4 CAKE Posts merged, please remember to either edit your existing post or wait for additional comments before posting again. Give people time to read and process your questions, thanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249808-whats-the-best/#findComment-3027709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 You might want to get familiar with the B&C's rules, man. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249808-whats-the-best/#findComment-3027733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Ok but what do you give the lord other than a daemon weapon(and obviously mark of nurgle) given your imposed 'rules' on making the "bestest combat monster eva" then id say dont change him. a lord with Dw and MoN is beastly vs T4 infantry, my chap always scores on par with Khârn. i suppose you could give him wings, but points start adding up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249808-whats-the-best/#findComment-3028499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntingbane Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 ok thanks for that. but when we do hq battles you can have as many points as you want to make them strong but no special characters Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249808-whats-the-best/#findComment-3028610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Without eternal warrior and a low inv chaos HQs are not viable for HQvsHQ duals because loyalists will just use a SS what makes impossible to kill without ID [in our case the slany demon weapon] and a TH to ID us back . If they are SW then they are also eternal warrior and sitting on a wolf . impossible to kill for a lord or a sorc . Even a DP after the warp time nerf would have a hard time . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249808-whats-the-best/#findComment-3028887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 the jeske has a point, generic chaos HQs are best used as infantry killers.. if you want to fight a duel grab abbadon Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249808-whats-the-best/#findComment-3029009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 no specials he said I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249808-whats-the-best/#findComment-3029246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntingbane Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 no specials he said I think. Yes i did indeed i said no special characters just normal hqs with upgrades BLOOD 4 THE BLOOD GOD SKULLS 4 SKULL THRONE SPRINKLES 4 CAKE Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249808-whats-the-best/#findComment-3029322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskie Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Chaos will always be out shiney toyed by the loyalists until a new Codex and even then it is unlikely as the loyalists are the cash cows. Forgeworld makes special characters too FWIW. I've long been anti-special character but now they are harder and harder to compete against when you always fight against certain ones. I also prefer to take a cheaper HQ. If you're feeling lucky you could take a Sorcerer of Slaneesh and hope to go first and try to soul suck or whatever with the force weapon. But as others have rambled, Eternal Warrior is a must have if you want to be an intergalactic badass. Sorcerers are the only HQ in the Chaos Codex that isn't fearless, but if you put them with a unit that is fearless, they decide to suck it up. One on one HQ duels will usually go bad for you as other teams just have shinier toys. If you put your HQ in a unit then with weight of numbers you could try to hut the enemies HQ. Some people like Terminators but they always seem like big targets plus are slower and you have to spring for a Landraider or risk teleporting in. If I wanted to make a bad ass unit with no point considerations I'd go with Plaguemarines or one of the marked troops to get fearless. If I was feeling lucky I might try Chosen, they can have up to 5 special weapons or combi-weapons plus have higher leadership. It's generally better to shoot on the way in to soften them up, so meltas/flamers. You could try a sorcerer of Slaneesh leading a unit of Chosen devoted to Slaneesh in a rhino. You have to buy a power for your sorcerer but it doesn't have to be lash. I guess if you want to be a bullet magnet buy a Landraider from your HS allotment, this will give you the Assault Ramp. Mix in some power weapons, power fists, a flamer and a melta plus some expendable dudes and you'd have a pretty good deathstar unit, probably still lose to Ghaz, Tyrants, and Space Marine heroes with retinues. But you'd get style points... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249808-whats-the-best/#findComment-3029502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 no specials he said I think. Yes i did indeed i said no special characters just normal hqs with upgrades BLOOD 4 THE BLOOD GOD SKULLS 4 SKULL THRONE SPRINKLES 4 CAKE Hrmm... try a Tzeentchi Daemon Prince, with Warp Time and Bolt of Change. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249808-whats-the-best/#findComment-3029512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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