Wolf Scouts

[henrywalker]

So i have decided to build a squad of 5 scouts accompanied by a wolf guard. How would you guys set up such a squad? I have never used scouts in an army before. What would you guys use the squad for?

 

Thanks

[the Fell Hand]

I used a five man pack with 1 melta gun last week, the melta fried a few Deathwing terminators, and one of the scouts killed Belial in close combat. Suffice to say I love that pack. I infiltrate them and use them to threaten armor or tie up units to give my other units time to move up. I'll probably always have some now. Never ran it with the Wolf Guard yet but that has to just be even more awesome.

[henrywalker]

To be honest i'm most keen on this because of a conversion idea i want to use. I have a few of the bodies of the blackreach commander and i want to convert a wolf guard using one of those and have him with scouts wearing cloaks.

 

Its a bit of a bonus that they are nice in game play too

[dswanick]

So i have decided to build a squad of 5 scouts accompanied by a wolf guard. How would you guys set up such a squad? I have never used scouts in an army before. What would you guys use the squad for?

 

Thanks

Here's one idea. Use the WGPL of your choice -

 

Elite: Wolf Guard Pack

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour, 43 pts (Combi-Meltagun, Power Fist)

1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour, 43 pts (Melta Bombs, Bolt Pistol, Frost Weapon)

1 Marked Wolf Guard in Power Armour, 46 pts (Melta Bombs, Combi-Meltagun, Storm Bolter)

 

Elite: Wolf Scouts Pack (5#, 155 pts)

4 Wolf Scouts, 125 pts (Melta Bombs 5, Power Weapon x2)

1 Wolf Scout w/ Mark of the Wulfen, 30 pts (Melta Bombs, Meltagun)

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Alright, so this is something that I have long not understood. Why do you take 43 points of Wolf Guard to dump into the squad. I tend to find that my scouts get their job done well enough with a melta and melta bomb combo, and can even tie up/kill stuff in assault. So why throw nearly half the value of the squad in again on the Wolf Guard?

[Maximus-92]

Alright, so this is something that I have long not understood. Why do you take 43 points of Wolf Guard to dump into the squad. I tend to find that my scouts get their job done well enough with a melta and melta bomb combo, and can even tie up/kill stuff in assault. So why throw nearly half the value of the squad in again on the Wolf Guard?

 

Insurance.

 

But i do agree with you. I think its worth grabbing a wolf guard with a combi melta and nothing else, 23 pts is worth the extra outlflanking melta.

 

What i don't do with scouts is give them melta bomobs AND and melta gun. one or the other i find is the way to go. If you shoot a tank and are actually successful, then you got nothing to charge. I usually prefer the bare bones scouts all with bombs in a squad of 5-7 depending on points

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Insurance for what? Theyve got six chances to crack something open with melta, so I'd say they're pretty safe.

[Maximus-92]

Like i said i agree with you, but the reason is insurance, didn't say you should take it.

[WG Vrox]

Why a WG in a scout squad because I roll horribly and need as many chances to do damage as I can possibly get. Another 3 attacks on the charge with a Thunder Hammer makes me feel and tingly inside and the fear factor my opponent has to deal with.

[Valerian]

Alright, so this is something that I have long not understood. Why do you take 43 points of Wolf Guard to dump into the squad. I tend to find that my scouts get their job done well enough with a melta and melta bomb combo, and can even tie up/kill stuff in assault. So why throw nearly half the value of the squad in again on the Wolf Guard?

 

Depends on what you hope to accomplish with the unit. Do you ever put a Wolf Guard pack leader with a Power Fist with your Grey Hunters? If so, why? You do it for the significant additional close combat power he brings to the fight. He may be expensive, but he often will do more damage than three or four regular Hunters would/could. Often, half of a pack might serve to do little more than act as "meat shields" to assist the important models, with the right kind of weapons, to get to the right place on the battlefield, so that they can then do their job.

 

The same theory applies to the Scout Pack. If you see any value to getting a minimum of 3 Thunder hammer attacks against any unit that you want that happens to be within 12" of the enemy's table edge, then you make the investment. If you don't think those attacks, combined with the extra Leadership, and the extra Melta shot are worth the points, then don't bother.

 

I typically aim my Wolf Scouts at enemy units as a first priority, and vehicles second. For my purposes, having the WGL is invaluable.

 

Valerian

[Godhead]

I have been having really good success with two squads on the cheap (5 scouts with a melta gun) as of late. Having two squads helps ensure that bad dice doesn't mean that my scouts were wasted this game. Plus when the dice gods are good to me and two squads come in where I want them at the same time, then I know the job is getting done.

[Buliwyf]

I have been having really good success with two squads on the cheap (5 scouts with a melta gun) as of late. Having two squads helps ensure that bad dice doesn't mean that my scouts were wasted this game. Plus when the dice gods are good to me and two squads come in where I want them at the same time, then I know the job is getting done.

 

If we're talking insurance, THIS I think, is your best bet.

 

As for your WG loadout, Combi-Melta and PFist is the way to go, so I'll throw my lot in with these guys. I'd assume that you'd be tank-busting from the way you're talking.

 

I looked at your blackreach commander, and after looking at my Sniper Scout models, I think I can see your conversion working without it being as heavily converted as I at first thought (if you're talking those Commander arms, and they have those spherical grooves, then they might just fit well into the Sniper Scouts, though I can't tell ya for sure).

 

 

Quick question: Has anyone run into difficulty with their scouts having to hit a cruising vehicle with their Melta Bombs? I see no other solution to this other than stacking 2+ more models onto the squad at 20 points apiece (15 + the 5 for the Meltas) which would be comparable in price to the WG with a fist AND an extra Meltagun.

[dswanick]

Alright, so this is something that I have long not understood. Why do you take 43 points of Wolf Guard to dump into the squad. I tend to find that my scouts get their job done well enough with a melta and melta bomb combo, and can even tie up/kill stuff in assault. So why throw nearly half the value of the squad in again on the Wolf Guard?

The cost of the squad I listed above is 155pts. A 46pt WGPL is less than 1/3rd the cost of the squad, not 1/2.

 

What i don't do with scouts is give them melta bomobs AND and melta gun. one or the other i find is the way to go. If you shoot a tank and are actually successful, then you got nothing to charge. I usually prefer the bare bones scouts all with bombs in a squad of 5-7 depending on points

Ever been up against an IG player with lots of squadrons? Nothing says Space Wolves! quite like two Melta shots, six Melta Bombs, and three Power Fist attacks slagging an entire squadron of Leman Russ Battle Tanks.

[Wulfebane]

Ever been up against an IG player with lots of squadrons? Nothing says Space Wolves! quite like two Melta shots, six Melta Bombs, and three Power Fist attacks slagging an entire squadron of Leman Russ Battle Tanks.

 

But not in a single turn. Each one of those tanks is a full turn for one pack of scouts. I like my backups and redundancies as much as the next guy, but 11 chances to pop a single tank in one turn is overkill and a points sink IMO.

[dswanick]

Ever been up against an IG player with lots of squadrons? Nothing says Space Wolves! quite like two Melta shots, six Melta Bombs, and three Power Fist attacks slagging an entire squadron of Leman Russ Battle Tanks.

 

But not in a single turn. Each one of those tanks is a full turn for one pack of scouts. I like my backups and redundancies as much as the next guy, but 11 chances to pop a single tank in one turn is overkill and a points sink IMO.

Yes, in one turn. You might want to brush up on your Squadron rules in the rule book. Further, if your IG opponent likes his "parking lot" tactics and you can pull off a multi-assault against two squadrons - yum!

[Simo429]

And the games where you aren't playing guard or perhaps tau those points become wasted.

 

Or more so in games where you roll poorly and end up on the wrong side of the board.

 

I think thats massive overkill for a wolf scout squad, they are circumstantial and for that in a unit you want them to be cheap.

 

Are they really going to do enough damage against GK, Necrons, other Wolves or Blood Angels to warrent those points?

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Alright, so this is something that I have long not understood. Why do you take 43 points of Wolf Guard to dump into the squad. I tend to find that my scouts get their job done well enough with a melta and melta bomb combo, and can even tie up/kill stuff in assault. So why throw nearly half the value of the squad in again on the Wolf Guard?

The cost of the squad I listed above is 155pts. A 46pt WGPL is less than 1/3rd the cost of the squad, not 1/2.

 

I tend to run my scouts as five man with melta and bombs, so they cost 110 pts for me.

 

Alright, so this is something that I have long not understood. Why do you take 43 points of Wolf Guard to dump into the squad. I tend to find that my scouts get their job done well enough with a melta and melta bomb combo, and can even tie up/kill stuff in assault. So why throw nearly half the value of the squad in again on the Wolf Guard?

 

Depends on what you hope to accomplish with the unit. Do you ever put a Wolf Guard pack leader with a Power Fist with your Grey Hunters? If so, why? You do it for the significant additional close combat power he brings to the fight. He may be expensive, but he often will do more damage than three or four regular Hunters would/could. Often, half of a pack might serve to do little more than act as "meat shields" to assist the important models, with the right kind of weapons, to get to the right place on the battlefield, so that they can then do their job.

 

The same theory applies to the Scout Pack. If you see any value to getting a minimum of 3 Thunder hammer attacks against any unit that you want that happens to be within 12" of the enemy's table edge, then you make the investment. If you don't think those attacks, combined with the extra Leadership, and the extra Melta shot are worth the points, then don't bother.

 

I typically aim my Wolf Scouts at enemy units as a first priority, and vehicles second. For my purposes, having the WGL is invaluable.

 

Valerian

 

But see, my Grey Hunters are expected to survive, at least for a good chunk of the game. With the Scouts, I'm normally popping them in in an area where I haven't dropped the drop section of my army, in order to prevent the shooty tank units or Devastators from killing anything. They probably won't survive longer than a turn or two, unless they're Wolf Scout Hrothgar Firefist, who single handedly tied up 15 Burna Boyz and a Big Mek for most of the game, after the other scouts got killed off. He even took down a fair number. But I digress. Five carapace models, who are a major threat to your opponent, and who come in in the middle of their army, probably won't survive, even with a Wolf Guard. They'll probably take down a Land Raider or other Large target, assault the contents if it's a transport, and die. They're good enough on their own without the 43 points of Wolf Guard, so why dump more points in?

[trefenwyd]

Everyone has their 'best' way to run scouts, and it all depends on play style and objective for them. I run mine with a Wolf Guard with combi-melta and powerfist, and I run two squads of them.

 

Best effect to date: playing against a comined vanilla marine/Blood Angels list with Mephiston and Vulkan. While my Grey hunters and long fangs handled the Blood Angel portion, my scouts came in turn 2, melta'd 2 razors holding Vulkan/tac squad and a 2nd tac squad. Then they assaulted both squads, power fisted Vulkan to death, and wiped both squads. I lost 3 models and killed about 750 pts of goodness on 1 turn.

 

I want my scouts to be able to do anything, and I feel that the inclusion of the wolf guard with fist/combi-melta helps in that regard. It's only marginally more expensive than giving the squad melta bombs, and I still have 2 melta shots + the power fist for tank hunting and the extra body/leadership/power fist for close combat.

[Valerian]

Everyone has their 'best' way to run scouts, and it all depends on play style and objective for them.

 

I think this is exactly the case. Many folks see the Scouts as a one-task "fire-and-forget" unit that should go after a single expensive enemy vehicle, destroy it, and then be quickly overwhelmed by the enemy nearby. I don't use or play mine like that. Instead, I prefer to put a significant amount of close combat capability where I want it behind the enemy's lines, and use it to do significant damage to enemy forces, and disrupt his plans over the course of several turns, if not the entire game.

 

Not including Independent Characters, about the best I can get out of a Hunter pack in a Rhino for close combat potential, is a single model with MotW, a single model with a Power Weapon, and a WGL with a PF/TH, and they are limited to a total of 10 (based on Transport capacity). I can only move them 12" per turn, and can't assault out of the Rhino if I move it. They are often better used to move into position, rapid fire from hatches, and once in place dismount and rapid fire, then receive an assault and counter-attack. Unless you've got them in a Land Raider, Hunters generally don't make for great dedicated Assault Forces.

 

In a Scout pack, I can go to 11 models, since there is not transport capacity to deal with, and I can get in an additional Power Weapon in the unit that isn't even available to Hunters. This unit can move onto the table, usually right where you want them, shoot, and then assault. They still hit at WS4 and S4, like the Hunters, and will do more damage against most opposing units than the Hunters will. The only drawback is increased losses when the enemy hits back, which usually amounts to 1 or 2 models, which is often offset by the extra 2 or 3 models that they killed with the extra PW. When I really want them to be a dedicated Assault Force, I'll add the SoH Wolf Priest to give them an additional PW, along with all of the rerolls that go with a well-chosen Oath of War (or whatever it is called).

 

The only time I've had my Scouts get their butts handed to them is when I assaulted a Grey Knights Purifier squad; Cleansing Flame followed by a bunch of NFH attacks with no Saves allowed chewed right through the Pack. However, even in that case, I was the one that dictated the fight, and they still did the job I wanted them to, which was to pull the Purifiers further away from an Objective that he needed them to contest. I have not yet had any problems using them against Orks, IG, or Blood Angels.

 

V

[jmurph]

Melta guns and melta bombs is redundant. A melta and WG combi melta should be fine against most tanks. If not, even kraks against 10 is decent. If you take the WG, you can give him 5 pt meltabombs instead of the whole squad.

 

valerian- the problem is that you must assault what you shoot. And if you are popping a tank, what you usually have to worry about is the ensuing fire before any assault. The 4+ save can hurt there. Say, for example, you pop a russ. Now you cannot assault. Next turn, a chimera drives up and toasts most of your squad with a heavy flamer. Or you pop a defiler. Next turn oblits walk up and fry you. See the problem? The extra CC gear doesn't help when you are just standing there. Where it may be helpful is if you pop a Rhino/RB/Chimera then go after the squad inside. But LFs are usually better for popping transports so you can concentrate meltas and backfield tanks and artillery.

 

That being said, I do usually take a wulfen in the squad and a WG in case I want to go after infantry first (say enemy LFs/Devs). But I usually don't bring a full 10 guys. 5+ WG works for me. With 2 meltas (1 a combi), a wulfen, and a PW, they are versatile while remaining reasonably cheap- close to what it costs without the WG and with MBs. To knock it down further, you can drop the WG, but 1 melta shot is pretty risky.

[Valerian]

valerian- the problem is that you must assault what you shoot. And if you are popping a tank, what you usually have to worry about is the ensuing fire before any assault. The 4+ save can hurt there. Say, for example, you pop a russ. Now you cannot assault.

 

 

That's why I said in the earlier post:

I typically aim my Wolf Scouts at enemy units as a first priority, and vehicles second.

 

I don't have the problem of popping a tank and then getting shot-up and assaulted, except on a rare occassion where I might decide that the payoff is worth the risk. If I do charge a vehicle, it will usually be when it happens to be close enough to my victim unit, that allows me to pull off a multi-charge - then I just put the WGL with Thunderhammer against the vehicle, and everyone else against the squad.

 

EDIT: Oh, and I suppose that I should add that in the past I have made lists with 1 small 5 man Pack with Meltagun and Plasma Pistol, specifically designed to pop a vehicle, as well as my usual large Pack with the Power Weapons and MotW, designed to go after units. Working the two types in tandem also can be very effective.

 

 

V

[dswanick]

Melta guns and melta bombs is redundant. A melta and WG combi melta should be fine against most tanks. If not, even kraks against 10 is decent. If you take the WG, you can give him 5 pt meltabombs instead of the whole squad.

Meltaguns and Melta Bombs are not redundant against Squadrons - not when you can achieve a multi-assault against two squadrons of IG armor.

 

Two Melta shots is two Melta shots. But two Melta shots, 5-10 Melta bombs, and three Power Fist hits against two squadrons of three Leman Russ' - priceless.

[kijamon]

Any one used a squad of snipers?

 

Aside from looking cool and that being reason enough for me to want some, I'd like to know if any one has had any joy from BS4 snipers that have enough of a bite to fight back in CC

[jmurph]

dswanick: Who takes squadrons of anything but Valks/Vendettas or speeders, which you need 6s to hit in CC anyway? I guess hydras, but they are 10 on the back, so I wouldn't want to shell out the points when kraks are S6. A russ squad would be nice, but most better IG players don't squadron them for numerous reasons.

 

Sniper rifles are very subpar for their price and just seem kinda meh in 5th. While I can see sticking a ML in the squad, sniper rifles don't tend to do much and are very static.

[Simo429]

Why do you need 6's to hit valks or vendettas?