Kol Saresk Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Okay, know in Chapter's Due, I know more than a few of us were going "What the devil is the Shard of Erebus?" In Know No Fear, our questions were answered that the Shard of Erebus is an athane, most likely Erebus' considering the name, and that athanes are ritual daggers used by both mortals and Astartes. Each one is unique to the holder, most likely forged by them as well. And that their ritual significnce makes them the perfect tool in both summoning and banishing daemons. But in Knf, Ventanus says that he doesn't trust the athames and orders them destroyed. But in TCD, there is not just any athame, but the athame of the Son of Chaos himself(or at least a shard of it) hidden inside Ventanus' tomb. Although it did work in function similar to an anathame in that its victim name was spoken and they died. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249954-anathames/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I thought the shard in Chapters Due was a shard of the anathame that is stolen from the Interex by Erebus and used to wound Horus and was completely xenos in origin, and the athanes are just chaos tainted ritual daggers created by the WB and their servants, so the weapon in Ventanus' tomb was the shard of the anathame? Not really sure if Chapters Due and KNF fit together in that regard. Although, the last known location of the anathame was in possession of Fulgrim which kind of mixes things up. Really i think its the similar spellings that confuse things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249954-anathames/#findComment-3029094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 Yeah as far as I know, the most current fluf has it that Fulgrim gets the Interex anathame from Horus. He uses it Guilliman which puts the Supersmurf into a stasis field where he is kept on Macragge while Fulgrim ascended to daemonhood. As far as I am aware, there is no mention of the anathame after it is used on Guilliman and that it is assumed that the Pheonician still has the sentient blade. Horus Rising is the reference for the blade being sentient in case anyone is wondering. But the real kicker is that the only person who knows Erebus stole the Interex blade is, well noone except anyone else who helped Erebus steal it because it goes from Erebus to Davin and then to Fulgrim so calling a fragment of it would be a very obscure reference in my opinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249954-anathames/#findComment-3029106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Your information is slightly off but in a crucial way. Fulgrim was a full, multi-limbed, serpentine Daemon Prince in Index Astartes Ultramarines. This is the only source that describes their battle. It is said when the two met in combat, a cloying mist enveloped them and the battlefield and when it recedes the Emperor's Children and Fulgrim are gone, with Guilliman lying prone on the field. He doesn't die immediately either, but he does as a stasis field is set up. It is described he has a single slash across his throat, which COULD be the same blade used against Horus, though it is also described each arm of Fulgrim held an envenomed talon. Now, what's so crucial about this information is Fulgrim didn't go on to become a Daemon Prince because of this combat, and he certainly wasn't rewarded by it. This opens the door for him being defeated or banished. If that's the case, then it's entirely possible the blade was left behind. Another odd anomanlly is Ventanus was buried in an unknown, forgotten tomb underneath Calth's surface as the lost Captain who defeated the Word Bearers underneath Calth, yet it was him who took the fight to Colchis years later. So what happened after all this is a mystery. He could have got the blade from anywhere in that time I guess. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249954-anathames/#findComment-3029120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 Oh well Index Astartes was before my time and since I am against internet piracy, I have never downloaded a PDF copy of it. I was just aware that Fulgrim was the one who put Guilliman into a stasis and inferred that he rose to daemonhood afterwards. I inferred that it was the anathame that was used because in the First Ultramarine book, sorry title escapes me at the moment and my omnibus isn't on hand, Uriel recalls that he was put into the stasis because Guilliman was being ravaged by an unknown toxin that they couldn't rid of. IIRC of course. But on your wording about Ventanus, fighting somewhwere doesn't mean you have to die there. I don't remember anything saying he directly died there but I've only read it once so it is possible that I missed it. IIRC, it matches your description in that he gains fame while fighting underneath the caverns of Calth. Living on to burn Colchis to the ground doesn't really conflict with that. So yeah I guess he could have gotten his hands on the blade. But calling it the Shard of Erebus would still be an obscure reference because not many people knew Erebus ever possessed the blade. Loken suspected him of it, but never proved it. Everyone else just didn't care because Erebus helped save Horus. It was confirmed he possessed it yes, but it was never confirmed that anyone ever knew he possessed it other than himself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249954-anathames/#findComment-3029140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Certainly is very loose right now. I think the Shard of Erebus could even be something else entirely, even a blade named in reference to Erebus simply as a dark homage to him for his dark deeds, though never having been owned by him. Not sure where they are taking it right now. I think the description of said weapon was a dagger if I remember rightly, thus it couldn't have been the Anatheme since it was a sword. Unless it broke, in which case we can go back to the Ultramarines picking up the pieces on Thessala. It's a mystery! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249954-anathames/#findComment-3029168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 Yeah it's supposed to be a poinard which can vary in size from a large dagger to a small shortsword. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249954-anathames/#findComment-3029200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 As far as I know: Erebus steals the Anathame it's given to Eugene Temba and used to wound Horus the Luna Wolves give the Anathame to Apothecary Vaddon for study Fabius Bile steals the Anathame and gives it to Fulgrim Daemon Fulgrim uses it as one of his 3 swords (4th arm carries a whip IIRC) Daemon Fulgrim and Guilliman battle Guilliman is mortally wounded by the Anathame I dunno how the Anathame can be Erebus' ritual dagger. Erebus stole it initially, but he only had it until he gave it to Temba, as far as I can tell. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249954-anathames/#findComment-3030381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 Wait, Horus handed the anathame to Fulgrim himself as part of the sealing of the pact. Although that may just be in {i]Fulgrim[/i] and not the original source. But other than that, I cannot argue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249954-anathames/#findComment-3030387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Wait, Horus handed the anathame to Fulgrim himself as part of the sealing of the pact. Although that may just be in {i]Fulgrim[/i] and not the original source. But other than that, I cannot argue. Now I dunno. I've not finished Fulgrim. I went and looked up the Anathame on Lexicanum and it said Fabius Bile stole it from Vaddon...and that sounded right and familiar to what I remembered.... *is confused* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249954-anathames/#findComment-3030830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I believe it was Galaxy in Flames which confirmed it. Or perhaps False Gods? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249954-anathames/#findComment-3030872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I think, it goes Erebus steals it from Interex Traitor general uses it to wound Horus Fabius takes it from Vaddon Fulgrim has it and uses it to kill one of his captains, but does he get it from Bile, because I seem to remember Horus giving it to him as a show of trust? Kinda confused now :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249954-anathames/#findComment-3030940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I went and looked up the Anathame on Lexicanum and it said Fabius Bile stole it from Vaddon... Theres your problem. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249954-anathames/#findComment-3031053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 It was confirmed towards the end of False Gods and in the middle or so of [/i]Fulgrim[/i]. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249954-anathames/#findComment-3031066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 It was confirmed towards the end of False Gods and in the middle or so of [/i]Fulgrim[/i]. Incorrect. No such thing is mentioned in either of those books. Fabius did not steal the Anathame from Vaddon, he came and took it under Horus' authority (he even had the Warmaster's seal to prove he was acting under Horus' orders). Both False Gods (p. 378) and Fulgrim (p.348) confirm that he took the anathame under Horus' orders (Fulgrim even clarifies that it was to bring it to Horus' stateroom) and so he did not steal it. If The Emperor's Champion got that Fabius stole the anathame from Lexicanum, then either Lexicanum is yet again wrong, or he misread what was written (based on past experience I tend to think its a case of the former, rather than the latter). I can't confirm which of those two possibilities is actually to blame, as "sadly" Lexicanum appears to be down at the moment. It appears I missed a third option, Lexicanum being deliberately misleading (how I didn't consider that possibility is beyond me). It appears that said misleading content caused The Emperor's Champion to misread the facts. I suspect the invalid information, "Bile delivered the weapon to his primarch Fulgrim", likely contributed to that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249954-anathames/#findComment-3031082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 Yeah I worded that wrong, thanks for clearing that up because I know I said that Horus gave Fulgrim the blade in an earlier post. But I'm a little fuzzy on how the blade went from Vaddon to Horus. I say that because I remember Loken going to see Vaddon and Vaddon not having the blade because Fabius had the seal of the Warmaster and took it to the Warmaster. And I looked at Lexicanum. It is interpreting the event as Fabius Bile lied, stole the anathame and gave it to Fulgrim himself even though both books say that Horus gave Fulgrim the blade. Well not entirely correct. False Gods shows Fulgrim and Horus parting ways and that Loken sees the blade strapped at Fulgrim's waist. Somehow I don't think our astute Warmaster would somehow overlook the blade that nearly killed him. And then Fulgrim shows where Horus actually gives him the blade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249954-anathames/#findComment-3031089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 It was confirmed towards the end of False Gods and in the middle or so of [/i]Fulgrim[/i]. Incorrect. No such thing is mentioned in either of those books. Fabius did not steal the Anathame from Vaddon, he came and took it under Horus' authority (he even had the Warmaster's seal to prove he was acting under Horus' orders). Both False Gods (p. 378) and Fulgrim (p.348) confirm that he took the anathame under Horus' orders (Fulgrim even clarifies that it was to bring it to Horus' stateroom) and so he did not steal it. If The Emperor's Champion got that Fabius stole the anathame from Lexicanum, then either Lexicanum is yet again wrong, or he misread what was written (based on past experience I tend to think its a case of the former, rather than the latter). I can't confirm which of those two possibilities is actually to blame, as "sadly" Lexicanum appears to be down at the moment. It appears I missed a third option, Lexicanum being deliberately misleading (how I didn't consider that possibility is beyond me). It appears that said misleading content caused The Emperor's Champion to misread the facts. I suspect the invalid information, "Bile delivered the weapon to his primarch Fulgrim", likely contributed to that. Aye, like I said, I've not finished Fulgrim, and it's been a loooooooooong time since I read False Gods, but the Lexicanum entry sounded right to what I sort of remembered. *shrug* :tu: Clearly, someone needs to go fix some Horus Heresy related Lexicanum articles (I try and keep the Ultramarines articles locked down as best I can to make sure nothing retarded gets in there, but I'm falling behind in keeping up with the fluff :tu:). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249954-anathames/#findComment-3031217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 I'm sorry but I have to laugh a little at that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/249954-anathames/#findComment-3031246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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